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So I'm fairly new to the game, and I play with a group of friends that play Space Marines and Necrons. We decided to build 1100 pt lists so heres mine.

HQ

Farseer - W/ Spirit stones + Dooom + Fortune

PL - Asurmen

360

Troops

Dire Avengers - 10 W/ Exarch + Dual shuriken + Bladestorm


Dire Avengers - 10 W/ Exarch + Dual shuriken + Bladestorm

Rangers- 5 Upgraded to Pathfinders

424

Heavy Support

Wraithlord - W/ Dual flamer + EML + BL


Wraithlord - W/ Dual flamer + EML + BL

310

Total = 1094

Any suggestions?

My friend plays a list ike this,cept he only has one wraithlord an 5 dark reapers,he wins every time.

What kind of armies does he play against though?

Seriously, as a long time Eldar player I can say this; Don't use phoenix lords in lists that small. Although cool, they are ridiculously overpointsy cost compared to what other armies get for far less points. Asurmen eats up enough points to build two Wave Serpents with twin scatterlasers to ferry your bladestormers around. That is way way more useful. Bladestorm is all about hop-off, fire, hop on, reload and reposition. You do yourself a great injustice if they have to footslog it, they'll get shredded.

Your wraithlords are ideal. Good choice, as is your doom/fortune farseer, who can ideally ride around with your bladestormers just to make their ridiculous ROF even more awesome.

Just seriously man, dump Asurmen he isn't worth it unless it's a much higher point game.

Thanks for the feedback, and ya you're right Asurmen isn't really worth the points. I just thought it'd be interesting to field him. Out of curiosity though, what point value game would you say running a PL is fair?

Honestly, until we get a new codex, I only use Maugan any more. I used all of them in an Apoc game a couple years back and learned how weak they were. That was around 6000 points. Everything else in your list is tight, but bladestormers need transports to be used right, and Asurmen, while (kind of, relatively speaking) durable, just doesn't have enough damage output to justify his ridiculous cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maugan or JainZar hiding in a shadowseer harlie squad is usually pretty good. Just most of them get gunned down so easy and just don't have enough output.

If there's ever another codex update, the phoenix lords better get an update and cost adjustment. Otherwise I have to agree that they are singularly worthless at this pointcost.

They cost as much as a full squad of DAs, full geared exarch and then some. Is that one model going to do as much or take as much damage as that?

Guitardian is pretty much on point. Couldn't say it any better.

If you mount up your serpents in Serpents then you need to drop your WLs aswell since they will be sitting without a Psyker since the Farseer will be in the Serpents aswell. Maybe consider something like this?

HQ:
Farseer (Doom+Guide+Stones) = 120

Troops:
10xDAs (Exarch+Dual+Bladestorm) = 152
Serpent (Scatter+Stones) = 125

10xDAs (Exarch+Dual+Bladestorm) = 152
Serpent (Scatter+Stones) = 125

Heavy:
2xFire Prism = 230

Elites:
5xFDs = 80
Serpent (SCannons+Stones) = 110

Its not a bad list. I'd replace Asurmen by an Avatar.

Tedurur's list is optimized for competitive play. However, I guess the OP will not have available all required models (skimmers).

Take Dark Reapers.

Unit of 5 with an Exarch and Fast Shot is 207, frees up 13 points if you drop Asurman. You will be amazed at what a unit of Reapers will do to Marines and 'Crons. If you listen to nothing else... listen to that.

I would also say drop the Rangers. I used to play only MEQ and my brother plays Eldar... Rangers have never been useful and have very rarely paid for their points so I recommend dropping them, which frees up another 120.

Lets you take another full squad of DA's with everything but bladestorm and puts your total at 1098.

Thank you for all the suggestions, I would love to roll on a Battlefield with 2 Fire Prisms, but of course being new i had bought a falcon instead of Fire Prisms, Doh.

Rangers aren't all that bad, when they are Pathfinders anyway. My exodite army has two squads (which I am gonna cut down to one and replace with bikes) and they have faired very well. A good friend of mine has a Saim Hann army and we battle often. He also runs two squads of Pathfinders, and in one game he took out my Avatar AND my Wriathlord in the first turn, before I even got to use them I might add. So it is all in how you use them ...... and who doesn't love a 2+ cover save, ... they just need LOTS of backup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
YES .... Fire Prisms are the way to go !!!!!!!! Especially with two!!!!!

Behind th Mask wrote:Rangers aren't all that bad, when they are Pathfinders anyway. My exodite army has two squads (which I am gonna cut down to one and replace with bikes) and they have faired very well. A good friend of mine has a Saim Hann army and we battle often. He also runs two squads of Pathfinders, and in one game he took out my Avatar AND my Wriathlord in the first turn, before I even got to use them I might add. So it is all in how you use them ...... and who doesn't love a 2+ cover save, ... they just need LOTS of backup.

They really need to be massed to do anything effectively. Especially against MEQ. Against things with MCs, yeah you can do a wound or two with a small squad against the big stuff, but against MEQ? That 120 would be better spent else ware

Shrike325 wrote:

Behind th Mask wrote:Rangers aren't all that bad, when they are Pathfinders anyway. My exodite army has two squads (which I am gonna cut down to one and replace with bikes) and they have faired very well. A good friend of mine has a Saim Hann army and we battle often. He also runs two squads of Pathfinders, and in one game he took out my Avatar AND my Wriathlord in the first turn, before I even got to use them I might add. So it is all in how you use them ...... and who doesn't love a 2+ cover save, ... they just need LOTS of backup.

They really need to be massed to do anything effectively. Especially against MEQ. Against things with MCs, yeah you can do a wound or two with a small squad against the big stuff, but against MEQ? That 120 would be better spent else ware

Well, Pathfinders can in general hold an objective if the enemy is not able to charge them.

However, we all know that in the 5th ed there are long-range shooting weapons that ignore cover saves.

I only carry the pathfinder because generally my friends leave them alone and because they serve me as a 3rd troop option, but I guess you are right about their points.

I do have Dark Reapers, however I don't like fielding them. I prefer taking my Wraith Lord for some reason.

Well, the army of the OP needs some counter-strike units when the Dire Avengers are threatened by a cc unit.
For this, the two WL's are perfect.

Just because you bought a falcon doesn't mean your screwed. Just bitz order the prism cannon pieces and your good to go!

I wasn't aware I could order it like that.... Thanks for the tip

A Falcon with Holo Fields and 5 DAs in it is not a terrible tank tho

even better with 5 fire dragons

On a different list I did actually run the falcon with the Fire Dragons, it worked really well. Especially when i moved them right behind my friends predator and just unloaded hell on it.

Not always the best, it can sometimes come back to bite you in the rear, almost literally.

Easy to get rear armor shots if you unload the dragons.

I would stick to prisms or walkers.

the whole point of using combined dragons and bladestormers is that they all drop off at the pinpoint and hose anything that could hit the rear, or them, while the front facing transports block shots or asaults to them until they get to hop back on. This is of course, in theory. In practice it gets a bit more complicated when enemy charge ranges vary, or psykic powers, or wierd terrain anomalies. You can use twin serpents to block each other's rear shots too when they cruise in the open. It looks silly but nobody can argue with it.

Swing and a miss!

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Swing and a miss!

Ambiguity is always useful! Especially the "I know something you don't" kind... care to extrapolate on that?