Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A GUO really doesn't do anything for Mortarion that a poxbringer wouldn't do just as well.

If anything, you have two big monsters and one of them might survive turn 1. I somehow doubt that this will be Mortarion.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
1d4chan states that one way to make Mortarion an even greater death machine is to put him next to a GUO with a bell. Is this a valid strategy? Also, when it comes to the various elite units, I think that I'll ultimately get one of each for now to see how they work and which combinations are the best.

I have no idea where they’re getting that from. GUO+bell has zero synergy with single model units. Mortarion is a Boromir who wants to have protective buffs cast on him and (ideally with Warptime) leap headlong into the enemy army (and certainly not dragging along a 7”M ball and chain) and demand their entire attention. (Gnarlmaw would let him Advance and shoot and charge?)

As for the GUO itself, well, if you’re going to deploy it then it’s probably as a very attractive fire magnet. Putting multi-model Nurgle Daemon units near it - especially certain Heretic Astartes - is the obvious synergy, but not for direct reasons. Resurrection is an unreliable gimmick, but what it does is make the GUO an even higher priority target - nobody wants to risk investing in killing an Obliterator and a Blight-Hauler only to have them get back up again.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
1d4chan states that one way to make Mortarion an even greater death machine is to put him next to a GUO with a bell. Is this a valid strategy? Also, when it comes to the various elite units, I think that I'll ultimately get one of each for now to see how they work and which combinations are the best.

I have no idea where they’re getting that from. GUO+bell has zero synergy with single model units. Mortarion is a Boromir who wants to have protective buffs cast on him and (ideally with Warptime) leap headlong into the enemy army (and certainly not dragging along a 7”M ball and chain) and demand their entire attention. (Gnarlmaw would let him Advance and shoot and charge?)

As for the GUO itself, well, if you’re going to deploy it then it’s probably as a very attractive fire magnet. Putting multi-model Nurgle Daemon units near it - especially certain Heretic Astartes - is the obvious synergy, but not for direct reasons. Resurrection is an unreliable gimmick, but what it does is make the GUO an even higher priority target - nobody wants to risk investing in killing an Obliterator and a Blight-Hauler only to have them get back up again.

Ok, that's good, I didn't want to be tempted to spend all that money.

At the moment, I own two Lord of Contagions and plan to give one a Plaguereaper and one a Manreaper so as to allow for a diversification of attacks. Do you think that this is a good idea?

I cannot find anything stating that DG Cultists have the same 10-30 restriction that has been added to regular CSM Cultists

Probably an oversight that’ll get patched when noticed, or am I missing something? Only with access to Blightbringer rerolls, forty of them Warptiming with four Flamers then recycling with Tide of Traitors sounds infuriating

We didn't get any of the good stuff from the new CSM codex (Hammer on lord, icon on possessed, new units), but also didn't any of the nerfs.

So our cultists still go up to 40, have the Heretic Astartes Keyword and benefit from Inexorable Advance.

Probably better to post in army lists, but I want more to discuss general idea, rather than specific roster.

I have contemplated the fate of my poxwalker farm lately.

Before the nerf it had been A++ roster, and I think it is the only army I have ever played that yielded 0 loses across three tournaments (9 games total). I tried them with Plasma Obliterator, even won one tournament with Aquila Strongpoint as a first turn protection for poxwalkers.

After the nerf it is has been, as far as I can tell, ubiquitously considered to be non-competitive unit, due to inefficient, too expensive poxwalkers generation.

And I've generally agreed with this assesment, but meta have changed. ETC Rulepack for 2019 provided new table maps, which are baseline for local tournaments as well. Less than a month ago huge local team tournament happened, and sheer amount of los-blocking terrain was total shock.

Just to give your the idea:


This is considered to be moderate table, with only 4 los blocking "books" as we call them:


Immediately after the tournament I thought:"Wait a minute, if I kick out the fortification from my poxwalkers roster I will have enough points to play them once again!"

Unfortunately the demand for 1k sons is pretty high in my team, so access to them might be restricted.

Current version I am going to test this weekend:


1 Pink Horror dead = 16pts for horrors + 24pts for poxwalkers = 40 pts for a full cycle

480pts = 12 dead pink horrors cycles = 48 extra poxwalkers

Max poxwalkers squad - 58 models.

If the opponent is experienced enough to avoid killing anything within 7" of the poxwalkers, I have enough characters to summon extra plaguebearers or horrors (on 4d6 I can even try to summon squads of 30) or tailor to the situation summoning DPs or Exalted Flamers against flyers, for example.

Crawlers are currently a placeholder. They are almost as resilient as a knight for a fraction of cost, but I don't want to give the opponents a valid target for anti-tank weapons, and without Gnarlmaw their combat efficiency is limited. Access to Dark Hereticus powers is important because of warp-time.

If I stick to crawlers I might drop Blightspawn for a Gnarlmaw.
If I have acess to 1k sons, I will probably get supreme command of Ahriman (165), DP (180) and Sorcerer (98) instead of crawlers (or patrol with Ahriman and Tzaangors)
or
I may drop Crawlers to get a single Chaos Knight to have at least some chances of getting points for the First Strike. Even without "chapter tactic" Iconoclast gives variety of options.

What do you think about Poxwalkers bomb in a terrain-heavy metagame?

 Fan67 wrote:
Probably better to post in army lists, but I want more to discuss general idea, rather than specific roster.

I have contemplated the fate of my poxwalker farm lately.

Before the nerf it had been A++ roster, and I think it is the only army I have ever played that yielded 0 loses across three tournaments (9 games total). I tried them with Plasma Obliterator, even won one tournament with Aquila Strongpoint as a first turn protection for poxwalkers.

After the nerf it is has been, as far as I can tell, ubiquitously considered to be non-competitive unit, due to inefficient, too expensive poxwalkers generation.

And I've generally agreed with this assesment, but meta have changed. ETC Rulepack for 2019 provided new table maps, which are baseline for local tournaments as well. Less than a month ago huge local team tournament happened, and sheer amount of los-blocking terrain was total shock.

Just to give your the idea:

Spoiler:

This is considered to be moderate table, with only 4 los blocking "books" as we call them:

Spoiler:

Immediately after the tournament I thought:"Wait a minute, if I kick out the fortification from my poxwalkers roster I will have enough points to play them once again!"

Unfortunately the demand for 1k sons is pretty high in my team, so access to them might be restricted.

Current version I am going to test this weekend:

Spoiler:

Death Guard Battalion:
Typhus 175
Sorcerer 98
Tallyman 55
Foul blightspawn 77 - Warlord
10 Poxwalkers 60
10 Poxwalkers 60
10 Cultists 50
Plagueburst Crawler 140 (2 x plaguespitters, h.slugger)
Plagueburst Crawler 140 (2 x plaguespitters, h.slugger)
Plagueburst Crawler 140 (2 x plaguespitters, h.slugger)

Chaos Daemons Battalion:
Changecaster 65
Poxbringer 70
20 Pink horrors 140
30 Plaguebearers with instruments 220
10 Brimstone horrors 30

Total: 1520 points
Reinforcement: 480 points
CP: 13

1 Pink Horror dead = 16pts for horrors + 24pts for poxwalkers = 40 pts for a full cycle

480pts = 12 dead pink horrors cycles = 48 extra poxwalkers

Max poxwalkers squad - 58 models.

If the opponent is experienced enough to avoid killing anything within 7" of the poxwalkers, I have enough characters to summon extra plaguebearers or horrors (on 4d6 I can even try to summon squads of 30) or tailor to the situation summoning DPs or Exalted Flamers against flyers, for example.

Crawlers are currently a placeholder. They are almost as resilient as a knight for a fraction of cost, but I don't want to give the opponents a valid target for anti-tank weapons, and without Gnarlmaw their combat efficiency is limited. Access to Dark Hereticus powers is important because of warp-time.

If I stick to crawlers I might drop Blightspawn for a Gnarlmaw.
If I have acess to 1k sons, I will probably get supreme command of Ahriman (165), DP (180) and Sorcerer (98) instead of crawlers (or patrol with Ahriman and Tzaangors)
or
I may drop Crawlers to get a single Chaos Knight to have at least some chances of getting points for the First Strike. Even without "chapter tactic" Iconoclast gives variety of options.

What do you think about Poxwalkers bomb in a terrain-heavy metagame?

Spoiler:

It's an interesting list and if you catch someone unawares it will ruin their day, but I think too many things have to go right for you.

The biggest issues is cost for me. For the cost of the poxwalkers and support, you could just have a ton of plaguebearers. Walkers need to come down to 5 points.

Actually i think the cost of the poxwalkers is fine.
Biggest issue is the squad size.

And while plaguebearers are great for screening and board control, they are highly unlikely to grow over 30 models, and getting extra attacks on them is a painful quest. So very few S4-5 attacks with +1 to wound at best.

Poxwalkers can reliably grow to 50+ models and are way better buff recipients:
They can easily get S5T5 (plaguebearers require epidemius and killing multiple enemy units to get T5)
They can easily get +2 to wound
They can easily get FULL reroll to hit
They are immune to morale - the bane of big units

Fully grown 50+ unit of poxwalkers buffed reliably slays knight.

But most importantly - they are immune to enemy fire due to Cloud of Flies. Even though they are slow, they can reliably reach enemy’s part of the table.

Sorry for hectic formatting - typing from mobile.

IF you can pull off the Poxwalker farm, it can still be powerful. But it does entail starting the game with a few hundred off the board. You need to screen the ‘seed’ unit as well as you would a character. Thankfully, cloud of flies prevents snipers, but if a list is capable of breaking the cordon and excising the patients zero, it can fall apart.

With the new space marine codex being announced, do you all think the heretic version will follow a similar pattern? I.e. chaos space marine codex and individual chapter supplements.

Either way I'm excited for a new DG codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Top of my wish list, DR and toughness 5 for our chaos lords. Would love entropy cannons to become plague weapons as well. That'd be lush.

The extra attack when charging, getting charged or when performing a heroic intervention is great news for any model holding a flail.

A unit of plague marines with close combat weapons might also become very powerful when all those special weapons get an extra attack.

This should probably go to rules thread, but explain to me:

At ETC from team Belarus Alexandr Filippov after first day is in top 20 with his list. Looking at his list he has a following spearhead detachment (+1cp):

Master of Posession (Black Legion)

Raptors
Plagueburst crawler
Plagueburst crawler
Defiler

How is it possible? Rules wise? Afaik PBC is death guard inclusive.

Xirax wrote:
This should probably go to rules thread, but explain to me:

At ETC from team Belarus Alexandr Filippov after first day is in top 20 with his list. Looking at his list he has a following spearhead detachment (+1cp):

Master of Posession (Black Legion)

Raptors
Plagueburst crawler
Plagueburst crawler
Defiler

How is it possible? Rules wise? Afaik PBC is death guard inclusive.

Heretic astartes keyword.

Oh, thanks. Bloat-drones, BL termies and foul blightspawns can be added to regular chaos detachments. Also death company or sanguinary guard or smash cpt into regular SM detachment when they share adeptus astartes. I can't understand how we have missed this. We always thought it was you can't mix factions inside detachments. Thanks.

Xirax wrote:
Oh, thanks. Bloat-drones, BL termies and foul blightspawns can be added to regular chaos detachments. Also death company or sanguinary guard or smash cpt into regular SM detachment when they share adeptus astartes. I can't understand how we have missed this. We always thought it was you can't mix factions inside detachments. Thanks.

Thats because of the way gw decided to handle faction keywords. You cant mix units from different codexes into the same detachment of they are using the CHAOS or IMPERIAL or ELDAR keywords as their only shared keyword. This causes confusion and many take it to just mean stick to 1 codex per detachment. But yeah, you can do what he did. That detachment loses access to any chapter tactics it may normally get (which in this case means nothing) but the detachment still can use relics / stratagems from their allotted group.

Its why you see a lot of black templar scouts mixed into other marine detachments that are not templars. Players use the forward deployment to garuntee themselves the ability to deny psycic powers t1 before the enemy has a chance to kill the scouts. Typically it will be in a detachment where the other units in said group are not concerned about getting tactics (like a vehicle detachment). This will all change i imagine once the new marine codexs hit. People will be less interested in losing their chapter tactics with their tanks getting access to them suddenly.

You can also nominate a DEITY as your detachment keyword.

I like to run at least one pure Daemons detachment - Possession is such a nice thing to have to hand when you come up against a psyker-Heavy army, and all four gods have something useful to bring - but you might not even need the Locus and Legion perks from a ‘pure’ detachment. A Defiler Jamboree can be followed by Horticulous throwing Gnarlmaws all over the place, anchoring their rear and making the centre ground into a nightmare for enemy units.

How many of you use FW Dreads? If so, which combination? And how di you compare them with PBCs?

I'm curious to hear other's experience as well. I just finished converting two contemptors and could use some insight.

Well, it will somewhat depend on your list. If you’re taking a Daemons of Nurgle detachment, PBC have more synergies as they can benefit from various Locus auras and Gnarlmaws. If you’re going pure DG, then the ability of FW stompers to move and shoot without penalty is pretty solid.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_errata_en.pdf

Everyone but pox walkers and cultists gets "Hateful Assault" - including all daemon engines, daemon princes and Mortarion. Nice.

 Jidmah wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_errata_en.pdf

Everyone but pox walkers and cultists gets "Hateful Assault" - including all daemon engines, daemon princes and Mortarion. Nice.

Minor buff but helps drones and blight haulers. DPs are even better at blending.

Hey, I'm potentially hopping back into 40k.

What would people recommend as a DG shopping list?

I'm looking to work towards a list for tournament play and Australian GW prices are gross.

What do DG players consider competitive?

 Obeisance wrote:
Hey, I'm potentially hopping back into 40k.

What would people recommend as a DG shopping list?

I'm looking to work towards a list for tournament play and Australian GW prices are gross.

What do DG players consider competitive?

You can't go wrong with Plagueburst Crawlers, Daemon Princes and Foetid Bloatdrones. Foul Blightspawns are rock as well. If you want competitive though you're gonna want to avoid our troops and instead look to soup in Nurgle daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Our terminators are unreal as well.

Is there a consensus on wings / no wings for the Daemon Prince?

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Is there a consensus on wings / no wings for the Daemon Prince?

Only no-Wings DPs I’ve seen advocated are a Khorne Skullreaver one that doesn’t want to pay 2CP for its deep strike, and Syll’Esske. Anything else - and especially an Astartes one - really wants the extra speed and ability to ignore walls.

I don’t even buy the footslogging argument with Skullreaver. I want that to be able to reach high value target two the turn after it arrives.

DG DP especially loves wings so that it can fly in with the drones. Start them near to a Gnarlmaw and Blightbringer, turn one charges are pretty doable.

Thanks. I am yet to play a game this edition!

I had a non-winged DP once when I was originally intending to run a Chaos Lord, but had enough points to spare to upgrade him to a DP, but not for wings.

Rare edge case though.

Yeah, I’m going to build a foot prince, but that’s because I main Word Bearers and want to field Ingethel. She’ll be tricky to get good use out of. Probably field her with Possessed and Daemon Engines to bum rush midfield objectives.

Actually, Possessed might also be an interesting match for a DG prince who’s an obligatory pedestrian.

I can't think of a reason to not take wings.

When list building, a Daemon Prince costs 180. Those points for wings aren't even considered to be a upgrade IMO, just part of the cost.

Hey guys,
Anyone here routinely use Plague Spewers on their Princes? I've been playing around with my lists and due to a big change at the annual GT I attend, I need to drop Morty due to him being a reliable handicap every game.
If you use them, do you think its worth the 15pt tax?