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I'm having my first look at the new codex (yeah I know I'm late). Haven't checked what anyone else is doing yet because I wanted to give it a glance before having my opinions possibly influenced by others


Things I noticed:


Warriors seem really good at that price, especially with Prime support.

Carnifexes got some nice options, Dakkafex with enhanced senses seems like a instant choice for me

Neurothropes seem like really cheap, durable synapse that provides psyker support and even heal each other. Including a couple of these seems pretty solid.


Tyrannofex with Rupture Cannon seem better now, not sure how worth the points they would actually be in practice, but it seems like a fun unit.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
havent played since last dex, what changed?

8th edition is rolling along. Nids wonn some tournaments with flyrant spam, flyrant spam + mawlocks, Flyrants + Hivbe guards, and some mixed listst. Eldar reapers and pox walker lists have dominated.

GW has responded with point increases to keep down broken units. But they do not like any of the best practises, smite spam etc. With all the nerfs in play it is expected for gunline armies to do well again. We will see. I expect such a trend to get some nerfed rules in 6 months.

Here are the latest rules:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/16/warhammer-40000-big-faq-1-the-low-downgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

thanks dude!


Was it impaler cannon Hive Guard that saw success?

If you’re going to build a dakkafex with ES, don’t use too much glue on the head. You may well find that four more ranged hits aren’t worth the vulnerability to tarpitting. Gave all mine Acid Maws and found it’s a good synergy for a short ranged weapon. Dreadnoughts take power fists for a reason

 lindsay40k wrote:
If you’re going to build a dakkafex with ES, don’t use too much glue on the head. You may well find that four more ranged hits aren’t worth the vulnerability to tarpitting. Gave all mine Acid Maws and found it’s a good synergy for a short ranged weapon. Dreadnoughts take power fists for a reason

I agree with this ES may seem like a good idea but having the acid maw's decent CC ability with 24 shots at 4+ is wonderful.

Thanks for the heads up on that one guys!

Hey guys, what would be optimal load out for Kronos fleet? I am considering, that either fast moving force providing "the deepest shadow", or heavy gunline (with exocrine and tyrannofex). These would come as an addittion to my existing army of behemoth/hydra, so that I could suffle units between games.

 Spreelock wrote:
Hey guys, what would be optimal load out for Kronos fleet? I am considering, that either fast moving force providing "the deepest shadow", or heavy gunline (with exocrine and tyrannofex). These would come as an addittion to my existing army of behemoth/hydra, so that I could suffle units between games.

A maxed out unit of hive guard double shooting Impaler cannons are undoubtedly my most effective unit.

 Spreelock wrote:
Hey guys, what would be optimal load out for Kronos fleet? I am considering, that either fast moving force providing "the deepest shadow", or heavy gunline (with exocrine and tyrannofex). These would come as an addittion to my existing army of behemoth/hydra, so that I could suffle units between games.

Biovores and sporocytes are wonderful additions to Kronos as spawned spore mines cast Deepest shadow.....

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
Hey guys, what would be optimal load out for Kronos fleet? I am considering, that either fast moving force providing "the deepest shadow", or heavy gunline (with exocrine and tyrannofex). These would come as an addittion to my existing army of behemoth/hydra, so that I could suffle units between games.

A maxed out unit of hive guard double shooting Impaler cannons are undoubtedly my most effective unit.

Quoted for truth. Much better than Tyrannofex. Or any other anti tank weaponry in our codex

With the new FAQ, is the Exocrine back? The hype were unreal when the index dropped but now not so much. With the stratagem to +1 damage it can really be devastating against almost everything. Because of the “no-turn-1-deep-strike” its more protected then ever.

Yes, Hive Guards always comes first but is a comeback for the Exocrine possible again? Standing still, with Kronos and strat thats 12shots, hitting on 3+, rerolling 1s and flat 3 damage.. Yes, only S7 but still!

Thanks, any further suggestions about troops choices for Kronos? Exocrine is very useful indeed, I was thinking something similar with+1damage gem.

Not really, Nothing the exocrine does Hive guard don't do whilst standing behind a wall.

Similar firepower but the Hive guard are so much more durable whilst doing it.

T8 is good, not being shot is better.

Sneggy wrote:
Not really, Nothing the exocrine does Hive guard don't do whilst standing behind a wall.

Similar firepower but the Hive guard are so much more durable whilst doing it.

T8 is good, not being shot is better.

I am rarely able to hide all 6 of the hive guards out of LoS. Additionally, I think hive guard and Exocrines serve different purposes. Hive guard is the default anti tank, whereas exocrine is there to kill specialists, like terminators or land raiders or other pesky stuff with a lot of armor. Also, with the change to the CP for battalions and brigades, I think having multiple different units able to benefit from different stratagems in the same phase (shooting) is better than being a one trick pony. If I have 12-15 CP and only play Hive guard, I can only spend 2 per turn on single minded anihilation. But If I also have an exocrine (or rupturefex) then I can also use the +1 damage stratagem against really fat targets.

My favorite Kronos gunline has all of them (6 hive guards, 1 exocrine, 1 rupturefex, 3 biovores) and fills the core with warrior units featuring deathspitters and venom cannons. With all the changes in deepstrike, I think this kind of list will see more and more play, especially in the beginning, when people will not really expect that a tyranid gunline will be an actual thing, much less a strong one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus we have the heal d3 wounds stratagem that can be used with the monsters but not really with hive guard.

All fair points.
I'm playing a hybrid list (kraken brigade, kronos spearhead) and won a tournament with it on saturday. Was running 6,3,3 hive guard as the elites in the kraken part (needed elite slot filling or they'd be kronos obviously)

I was initially playing 6 hive guard and an exocrine and I just found the exocrine dead before it fired a shot if I didnt go first.

has anyone looked into Hydra Endless Swarm Strategem? Bringing back a fully decked out unit of Warriors for 2CP seems really dope

 SHUPPET wrote:
has anyone looked into Hydra Endless Swarm Strategem? Bringing back a fully decked out unit of Warriors for 2CP seems really dope

The problem with those stratagems is that you have to pay "reinforcement points" for units brought back like that. If it was free models, it'd be great.

 rollawaythestone wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
has anyone looked into Hydra Endless Swarm Strategem? Bringing back a fully decked out unit of Warriors for 2CP seems really dope

The problem with those stratagems is that you have to pay "reinforcement points" for units brought back like that. If it was free models, it'd be great.

are you entirely sure? It says just to replace a destroyed unit. I think that's different, unless rules have changed. ?

 SHUPPET wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
has anyone looked into Hydra Endless Swarm Strategem? Bringing back a fully decked out unit of Warriors for 2CP seems really dope

The problem with those stratagems is that you have to pay "reinforcement points" for units brought back like that. If it was free models, it'd be great.

are you entirely sure? It says just to replace a destroyed unit. I think that's different, unless rules have changed. ?

Cross-reference ‘set it up as reinforcements’ with BRB pg 214

You have to pay the points. You only do not have to pay the points, if you replace an already decimated unit with a new one, like in Tide of Traitors.

in that case I guess it's trash


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so really? I have to run an army of negative points, just to spend CP, to get back units I could have included from start except only now they've missed half the match (if I'm lucky), and even then ONLY if my opponent has killed the ENTIRE unit, knowing full well that if he does I can THEN replace? That's unbelievably bad, could that be any worse?

Its meant for open or narrative play.

 SHUPPET wrote:
has anyone looked into Hydra Endless Swarm Strategem? Bringing back a fully decked out unit of Warriors for 2CP seems really dope

I've been using it fairly heavily with swarmy lists, though as mentioned you need to have reinforcement points set aside to use it which limits what you can bring back (I usually set aside ~240-360 points at 1850-2000 with Hydra). That said, the main utility I've found is less that it brings back a unit and more the positioning aspects combined with its ability to bypass the restrictions on reserves (can be used after turn 3 and ignores most of the new beta rules). It can also be used to reduce the amount of infantry you need to bring while still having a fair attrition ability, so 90-odd gaunts can do the work of 120-150. I usually reserve it for Termagants and Genestealers since both can be built with similar point costs and both are quite comfortable outflanking.

Also it is worth noting that it is one of the few things that works with the Pheromone Trail stratagem currently (the other being the Sustained Assault mission special rule and certain scenario's reserve rules). While deploying on the table edges is usually good enough, it has some situational utility. For instance, if a unit of Venomthropes gets shot down you can have them return to the middle of the swarm via Lictor to resume shrouding duties.

Why not just place 150 units on the board and get those shots/charges/board control from the beginning. Got to agree, if it was a free unit it would be worth it, otherwise its not really good for competitive play.

Pheremone Trail Stratagem combo could be good with GS, but you are relying on your opponent to completely wipe a unit and have your lictor in the right place when that happens. Too many variables.

 Dynas wrote:
Why not just place 150 units on the board and get those shots/charges/board control from the beginning.

Mobility mainly. Endless Swarm allows you to deploy the replacement right into the thick of fighting from a different vector than the main swarm while foot slogging units have to path around other units and terrain before getting in range to contribute.

 Dynas wrote:
Pheremone Trail Stratagem combo could be good with GS, but you are relying on your opponent to completely wipe a unit and have your lictor in the right place when that happens. Too many variables.

Right, was just pointing it out as something to keep in mind. The natural deployment rules for Endless Swarm are sufficient for most uses and are realistically the main benefit of the stratagem.

Edit:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Hydra with 150 bodies is about 80-100 bodies too low

This is true too. Last time I ran them I had ~220 odd bodies to start with and ended with ~270 worth. I just used 90 Termagants as an example since they are a cheap target to use Endless Swarm on and can be respawned by any fleet.

Hydra with 150 bodies is about 80-100 bodies too low

Do people really play armies that size? Sounds awful in all ways - hobby and gaming. The thought of moving 200+ models is bad enough, but building and painting them to any reasonable standard? Ick.

That is why I am hellbent on some form of Nidzilla.

90 horma/90 terma was my main list in previous editions. I was so accustommed to moving them that I could do a full movement phase in less than 10 minutes. If you ask me to do it now I will probably choose to shoot myself instead.

And I do have them painted and based in a tabletop standard.

Years ago there was this dude who spent 1 month to paint a WHFB army consisting of 1000+ gnoblars, all with nails/teeth/hair/bodies and basic highlights. He also had a nice blog of it. In the end he went to a tournament with a barrel full of skittles, and made his opponents eat a skittle every time they killed a gnoblar. Some people are really dedicated.

With the changes to tactical reserve, I really recommend stock tyrant gaurd to babysit any of your flyrants and/or swarmlord turn one. the 9 extra wounds will really save your ass more times that you can imagine.

Add leviathan or catalyst to the tyrant gaurd for extra durability.

Unfortunately the durability of Tyrant Guard is not really good, when people ignore the Tyrant and first shoot the guard. Leviathan or Jormungandr are handy in this case.

Yeah, currently I'm thinking our "strongest" builds lie in Kronos Beta striking, Jormangangr tanking Alpha, and Leviathan as the general specialist, as 6++ is always useful. I still build lists around Brigades so I tend to use just one fleet. But with the Boost to Battalions , two+ of those can generate mad amounts of CP

Maybe the future of Nids (and AM) is using CPs to dominate the battlefield. One thing that will help our beta strike is that people who were lazy about screens will be even lazier now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also we can ally in GSC for a fully "street legal" first turn Alpha.

If I was gonna use Endless swarm i'd take a list like this:

+++ Neverending (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) 1998+++++

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ HQ +

Malanthropes: Malanthrope

Neurothrope

Neurothrope

Neurothrope

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 4x Ripper Swarm Spinemaws

Ripper Swarms: 4x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 4x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms: 4x Ripper Swarm

Termagants
. 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer


Termagants
. 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer

+ Elites +

Hive Guard
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Fast Attack +

Mieotic Spores: x7

Mucolid Spores: Mucolid Spore

Mucolid Spores: Mucolid Spore

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores: Biovore x2

Biovores: Biovore x2

Biovores: Biovore x2





Its a very hoard like army. Would work similar to a green tide focused on shooting instead of melee. Just gum up the middle of the table with gaunts and rippers (keeping your thropes protected) while your backfield does the damage. The lictors should be brought in turn 2 or 3 to hopefully bring in another 30 devilgaunts. The hive guard will double shoot every turn and be effectively immune to getting attacked if you place them properly and you keep your infantry spread out. Add in some heavy threat from meiotic spores coming in at something big with MO.