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Aaranis wrote: If only we could have a stratagem or something to make a regular Dominus an Archmagos, so that we don't have to take Mars if we want rerolls.
That would be amazing.
Fire of Cyraxus will fix it I'm sure!
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Tastyfish wrote: Not sure I rate a S5 bolter over 3D6 overwatch shots/60% charge failure for 2pts more a model.
Things to note with 6 destroyers - that's too much to bring back as an Agrinpinna detachment, whereas two units of three can be more than that.
Not true. You can recycle a unit of 6 for 3CP. Its the maximum unit size you can recycle, but its possible. And you probably want to choose this option over two units of three to save CP - To recycle all 6 models in a 2x3 configuration, you have to pay 4 CP. a 1x6 squad pays 3. Bargain.
(plus, you get to use the elimination volley stratagem on all of them, rather than just half.)
Aaranis wrote: If only we could have a stratagem or something to make a regular Dominus an Archmagos, so that we don't have to take Mars if we want rerolls.
Tastyfish wrote: Not sure I rate a S5 bolter over 3D6 overwatch shots/60% charge failure for 2pts more a model.
Things to note with 6 destroyers - that's too much to bring back as an Agrinpinna detachment, whereas two units of three can be more than that.
Not true. You can recycle a unit of 6 for 3CP. Its the maximum unit size you can recycle, but its possible. And you probably want to choose this option over two units of three to save CP - To recycle all 6 models in a 2x3 configuration, you have to pay 4 CP. a 1x6 squad pays 3. Bargain.
(plus, you get to use the elimination volley stratagem on all of them, rather than just half.)
True, I'd misread it as <20 rather than equal or less.
Suzuteo wrote: I actually really hope they do 1-2-model units of Crawlers. I mean, from the rules, they seem meant to be paired.
The best we can hope for is CA 18. Hopefully Fires is out before then and we don't have to rely on neutroncrawlers for taking out big stuff. Or maybe the knights codex with buff them enough to make them points efficient and able to be integrated better. but who am I kidding, they'll suck and Fires will never happen
Aaranis wrote: If only we could have a stratagem or something to make a regular Dominus an Archmagos, so that we don't have to take Mars if we want rerolls.
This is the biggest hole in the codex. Sure, a whole lot of unit entries are just bad. But that we don't have a chapter master strategem makes all the forgeworlds into jokes as soon as you start writing a shooting list. The second you include a shooting unit, the first thing you think is "damn, this unit would work better with Cawls full reroll aura". The opportunity cost of going from rerolling 1s to hit in the shooting phase to full rerolls (even over blank rolls from modifiers) is just too much. It removes all the horizontal choice from the codex. MARS is just better for shooting, period.
"Admech don't have enough unit choices. Half the codex is really good, half is totally useless. Chicken walkers are great, Onagers aren't bad, couple of robots aren't bad, rangers are really good value, cawl's not too bad, electro priests when they work are fantastic, when they don't - they just die. Everything else kind of sucks. Underdeveloped army. They'll be about the same as before."
Suzuteo wrote: I actually really hope they do 1-2-model units of Crawlers. I mean, from the rules, they seem meant to be paired.
The best we can hope for is CA 18. Hopefully Fires is out before then and we don't have to rely on neutroncrawlers for taking out big stuff. Or maybe the knights codex with buff them enough to make them points efficient and able to be integrated better. but who am I kidding, they'll suck and Fires will never happen
Ideally, the Knights codex will give us some way to make ONE Knight work for our army. We are really good at supporting a single Knight. Rotate Ion Shields every turn. Machine Spirit Resurgent every turn past one. Tech Adepts to double heal. You get the idea.
"Admech don't have enough unit choices. Half the codex is really good, half is totally useless. Chicken walkers are great, Onagers aren't bad, couple of robots aren't bad, rangers are really good value, cawl's not too bad, electro priests when they work are fantastic, when they don't - they just die. Everything else kind of sucks. Underdeveloped army. They'll be about the same as before."
Yeah. I can't make this imperium admech army work. Celestine / Scouts / Basilisks did a lot of work to cover the weaknesses of admech. But I can't have all 3 of those things now. I can only pick 2. I don't want to need scouts anymore, but nurgling / alpha legion infiltrates can auto table you if they get first turn and you don't have scouts. But taking the scouts means I Have to take junky space marine HQs .. which are so bad I might as well go smash captain and mephiston. Just running Celestine and Basilisks gives me the best odds of truly taking all comers, but then I leave myself open to the nurgling deploy and forward operatives alpha strike. If I put in STYGIES dragoons into some kind of mixed detachment I still can't answer the nurglings taking up all the good space. And trying to run admech that isn't Cawl/Dakkabots results in a gunline that doesn't have enough gun in it to win. Hmmm.
Suzuteo wrote: I actually really hope they do 1-2-model units of Crawlers. I mean, from the rules, they seem meant to be paired.
The best we can hope for is CA 18. Hopefully Fires is out before then and we don't have to rely on neutroncrawlers for taking out big stuff. Or maybe the knights codex with buff them enough to make them points efficient and able to be integrated better. but who am I kidding, they'll suck and Fires will never happen
Ideally, the Knights codex will give us some way to make ONE Knight work for our army. We are really good at supporting a single Knight. Rotate Ion Shields every turn. Machine Spirit Resurgent every turn past one. Tech Adepts to double heal. You get the idea.
On this note I have been considering the Questoris Knight Styrix. No two gun option, but it is cheap. 4+ invulnerable that we can rotate shields to 3++ I'm pretty sure. I'll be trying to get my hands on one after I finish up the mortars for my list.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
"Admech don't have enough unit choices. Half the codex is really good, half is totally useless. Chicken walkers are great, Onagers aren't bad, couple of robots aren't bad, rangers are really good value, cawl's not too bad, electro priests when they work are fantastic, when they don't - they just die. Everything else kind of sucks. Underdeveloped army. They'll be about the same as before."
Yeah. I can't make this imperium admech army work. Celestine / Scouts / Basilisks did a lot of work to cover the weaknesses of admech. But I can't have all 3 of those things now. I can only pick 2. I don't want to need scouts anymore, but nurgling / alpha legion infiltrates can auto table you if they get first turn and you don't have scouts. But taking the scouts means I Have to take junky space marine HQs .. which are so bad I might as well go smash captain and mephiston. Just running Celestine and Basilisks gives me the best odds of truly taking all comers, but then I leave myself open to the nurgling deploy and forward operatives alpha strike. If I put in STYGIES dragoons into some kind of mixed detachment I still can't answer the nurglings taking up all the good space. And trying to run admech that isn't Cawl/Dakkabots results in a gunline that doesn't have enough gun in it to win. Hmmm.
I can see the appeal of Celestine as an HQ choice, but I have never found her necessary. In any case, the answer to your question is simple. In fact, you and I discussed this about a year ago: Dominion Squads.
Vanguard: Once both sides are deployed but before the first player takes their turn, this unit can move as if it were their Movement phase. If both players have units that can do this, the player who is taking the first turn moves their units first. If all of the models embarked on a transport vehicle have this ability, then the transport vehicle can make the move instead.
So the order is deployment, seize after one player finishes deploying, Vanguard move after both players finish deploying (you can Advance too, it seems), then infiltrate at the start of the first battle round.
Heavy Support - 440 4x Kastelan Robots - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blasters
Total: 2000 points
14 Command Points
Alpha Zerker spam is scary, but it's not impossible to fight off if you have enough bodies between you and the enemy. I actually think they are a lot less scary than Blood Angels anyway.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/04/19 12:58:16
2018/04/19 14:16:20
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Aaranis wrote: I'm going to try my Stygies lists with 10 Fulgurites and 3 Dragoons in Infiltration in the upcoming days, just so people don't believe they're safe from turn 1 charges, yet... Maybe even add one of my Domini with the relic axe that gives +2S -2 AP 3D.
And in next FAQ they will suddenly no longer be able to do their thing first turn...
Lets hope not
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wulfey wrote: So the basic gunline list of Cawl - dakkabots - guard artillery is even better. The stuff that really pooped on that list got weaker. Celestine is now more expensive to get, but a guard battalion gives lots of CP and going up to a battalion of MARS gives a whole lot of CP.
This list has 13CP. Like holy hell that is a lot. Do I even need the CP battery? Maybe I even run sisters HQs.
CADIA - 2x commanders, 3x9 mortar guards, 2x baslisks, 2x mortar teams
SISTERS - Celestine + 1x5 girls with 3x storm bolters
MARS - Cawl, Enginseer, 5x dakkabots, 2x neutrons, 3x5 rangers or vanguards
No scouts. But I can double move the guardsmen up the board even further than the scouts on turn 1.
GOD I hate soup.
But if that's what it takes...
(I still won't play tournaments like that, I'm the fun game kind )
ph34r wrote: I love dunecrawlers. Roll 1 for shots? Obvious command point opportunity Have any negative to hit modifiers? 1 cp stratagem to get +2 to hit, and you are presumably retooling everything from your Archmagos/Cawl.
Dunecrawlers are solidly resilient too with the 5++ re-roll 1s and more wounds than robots.
You could potentially use Beamcrawlers as a massive screen they're so cheap for their toughness )
They only problem with that now is the limit of three datasheets. Dunecrawlers should be 1-3 per unit just like leman russes.
Or better yet, Russes shouldn't be vehicle squadrons, they're already powerhouses (and waay stronger than crawlers, what with their cheesy fire twice shtick)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/04/19 14:36:49
ph34r wrote: On this note I have been considering the Questoris Knight Styrix. No two gun option, but it is cheap. 4+ invulnerable that we can rotate shields to 3++ I'm pretty sure. I'll be trying to get my hands on one after I finish up the mortars for my list.
I run a Styrix in my 2k Ad Mech list and I find that it works really well, currently you can't use the strategems on it has the wrong keywords for it but for 500pts kitted out with the siege claw (as it come with the rad cleanser built into it) it does some serious work. I also love when the vokite chieoroville procs and I get the extra hits and wipe a vehicle or Monster out in one shot.
2500+ pts of Ad Mech
2000+ pts of Deathwatch
2000+ pts of Skaven
Hi, I would like to play electro priest in a 5 man squad yo protect my gunline of robots and I wonder if Corpuscarii are better or not than fulgurite for this specific role?
HeavenLord wrote: Hi, I would like to play electro priest in a 5 man squad yo protect my gunline of robots and I wonder if Corpuscarii are better or not than fulgurite for this specific role?
Neither. Rangers to screen. If you really want Priests, Fulgurites work but generally are overpriced. Stygies is best, generally. Gives you access to infiltrate them and the -1 to-hit helps them a lot, but it is still an underwhelming unit.
For robots if they get charged you are in serious serious trouble. Why not just prevent the charge in the first place?
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Errrr no they can't, The distance between the letter base and enginseer base is more than 1''
Bases dont have to be plane on the ground afaik as long as the model stands on it and is not laying flat on the ground you can try to balance it on its rim and on the "ruin". In this case certainly.
Fulgurites are not overpriced, they just lack a delivery mechanism. They're immense elite/biker/hq killers, tougher targets just require better wound rolls, but the damage is still there. At 16pts per model 10 of them wreck just about anything they come into contact with....it's the contact part that makes them less feasible.
Octovol wrote: Fulgurites are not overpriced, they just lack a delivery mechanism. They're immense elite/biker/hq killers, tougher targets just require better wound rolls, but the damage is still there. At 16pts per model 10 of them wreck just about anything they come into contact with....it's the contact part that makes them less feasible.
They hit alright, but are pretty squishy despite their invuln, until they actually get a kill.
Without a transport, yes, they are a bit overpriced as we need to horde them to get them across the table to actually do anything. If we had any means of transport, they would be suitably priced.
Has anyone had luck using Styges Infiltration Stratagem to get them up in the enemys face on turn 1? Sounds like it might work in theory (I am new to AdMech and stll building my army but look forward to playing them soon)
Errrr no they can't, The distance between the letter base and enginseer base is more than 1''
Bases dont have to be plane on the ground afaik as long as the model stands on it and is not laying flat on the ground you can try to balance it on its rim and on the "ruin". In this case certainly.
I believe you are wrong as of the Big FAQ.
Per the Rulebook FAQ:
Q: If a unit declares a charge against an enemy unit that is entirely on the upper level of a terrain feature such as a ruin, Sector Mechanicus structure, etc., but it cannot physically end its charge move within 1" of any models from that unit (either because there is not enough room to place the charging unit, or because the charging unit is unable to end its move on the upper levels of that terrain feature because of the expanded terrain rules for it – as with ruins, for example), does that charge fail?
A: Yes.
Bold added for emphasis. This part is exactly where WMS applies. So this means there must be enough room on the same level as the charge target for the charging unit for that charge to succeed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/20 17:15:08
Errrr no they can't, The distance between the letter base and enginseer base is more than 1''
Bases dont have to be plane on the ground afaik as long as the model stands on it and is not laying flat on the ground you can try to balance it on its rim and on the "ruin". In this case certainly.
I believe you are wrong as of the Big FAQ.
Per the Rulebook FAQ:
Q: If a unit declares a charge against an enemy unit that is entirely on the upper level of a terrain feature such as a ruin, Sector Mechanicus structure, etc., but it cannot physically end its charge move within 1" of any models from that unit (either because there is not enough room to place the charging unit, or because the charging unit is unable to end its move on the upper levels of that terrain feature because of the expanded terrain rules for it – as with ruins, for example), does that charge fail?
A: Yes.
Bold added for emphasis. This part is exactly where WMS applies. So this means there must be enough room on the same level as the charge target for the charging unit for that charge to succeed.
Huh. So putting Stygies Rangers onto the upper floors without room for enemies is kinda mean, right? You just need an inch around the edges and max coherency between and no one can charge you? Rude stuff.
It's not super hard to kill one ranger though, is it? Feels like this tactic sounds good on paper but in reality you will get 1 ranger plinked dead and then you're toast.
Also what people aren't twigging is that if you're stuck up a building, you can't fall back out of combat.
TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.
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