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Just wondering if anyone else has done any testing with machine curse? I was playing a game yesterday, using my librarian as my HQ as always, and while making my list, realized I had very few weapons that ignored armor. No terminators, no squads with multiple plasma guns, no sternguard, not even fists on my tac squads. So, instead of going for the classic null zone + avenger librarian setup, I went for machine curse + avenger, just to see how it was. I was surprised at how effective it is, given how rarely I see it used in army builds. In one game, it managed to glancing 4 a wave serpent that didn't have extra armor... holding it in place long enough for my ally to assault it and blow it away in hand to hand. In another game, it glancing 5'd a hammerhead, and blew the gun off.

It got me thinking about the applications of this ability... thinking about it, a hit from machine curse against the front of an ork battlewagon has a 33% chance of immobilizing or blowing it up, from 24" away. Thats really not a trivial thing... and even against other vehicles, it will almost always prevent them from shooting at least. Seems to me quite an underrated power... anyone else ever use it?

Interesting. I never thought about it before because I have a proliferation of ranged fire power in my army and like the synergy of Null Zone/Avenger in my all-comers list. I'm going to drop Avenger and go with Machine Curse for a few games to see what it adds.

Since Null Zone is more important to an all-comers list than Avenger, why not Null Zone and Machine Curse?

I'd argue that null zone is build dependent, really.... while avenger is more useful in a wider variety of situation. Unless you have assault terminators or sternguard with combi-weapons, things that REALLY force alot of invulnerable saves, the odds are you won't need null zone... and it will only help you out against daemon armies. I was fielding a 1000 point list yesterday... with rifleman dreads, dakka predators, and assault cannon razorbacks. Really just going for torrent of fire, over low AP fire. I had 2 typhoons with krak missiles, but I didn't think null zone would be very useful for supporting those 4 shots.

As it turns out, I was glad I took avenger... my librarian boiled 5 genestealers alive in one game, while his squad rapid fired the rest to death. Had I taken null zone, I'd have never had a use for it.

So, I'd say if your taking assault terminators, or massed las/plas in your army, then yes, null zone + machine curse is probably a good idea. If your going mass autocannons / heavy bolters / missiles... then null zone, not so much... and avenger is really a better choice.

If you don't have alot of long range shooting i could see taking machine curse but if you dont have missiles or las cannons and you dont have terminators my question is what do you have?

Also for a heavy razorback list machine curse/null zone doesn't work as well since the libby has to get out to fire it and is now vulnerable to return fire very close to his own board edge and avenger is much better when out-flankers or fleeting hoards get too close to your ride your when your riding up to clear troops in cover off an objective late game.

I forgot that you mentioned that you weren't using any armor-save-denying weapons in your list. In that case you're correct in that you don't need null zone. It would still be helpful against Daemons, but you can't really plan against a single army for an all-comers tournament list, unless that army is expected to be very common and strong, which Daemons is not generally considered to be.

Null Zone says FU to:
-A whole Daemon army.
-Eldar Seer Council.
-TH/SS Termies.

That's the big three...and enough to justify its inclusion IMO.

Now onto the original point.
If it didn't need to hit, it would prob. get more use.
Its best targets are AV14...and pretty much that. Glancing is so so these days, but being able to Glance higher AV makes it somewhat useful...but needing to hit on a BS4 platform just sucks as we used to be spoiled with BS5 characters across the board IIRC.

Avenger/Null is a great coverage for an all-comers.
If one is in dire need of a power to shut up one tanks from shooting at your army, then Machine Curse could be up ones alley, but it would not be my cup of tea.

But if he's not using any low-AP weaponry or power weapons (IMO a mistake with nids and blood angels in the "metagame") then nullzone is of usefulness against only units with invulnerable saves that are better than their armor saves.

Jetbike seer councils (non-jetbike councils are pretty worthless) and TH/SS terminators do not fall into this category, so it becomes useful only against Daemons.