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Haven't been having the best of luck with my Skaven, so to clear my head a buddy lent me his Daemon Army to try out. Here is the list that I am thinking of running for 'Ard Boyz and the prep beforehand.

Lord:

Kairos Fateweaver = 625

Heroes:

Skulltaker on a Juggernaut = 200

Herald of Khorne with Armor of Khorne and either a Firestorm Blade or Soul Hunger = 140

Herald of Khorne with Armor of Khorne and either a Firestorm Blade or Soul Hunger = 140

Herald of Tzeentch (BSB) with Master of Sorcery and Spell Breaker = 190

Core:

30*Bloodletters, Standard, Musician = 378

30*Bloodletters, Standard, Musician = 378

16*Horrors, Standard = 204

Rare:

5*Bloodcrushers, Standard, Icon of Endless War = 395

5*Flamers = 175

5*Flamers = 175

Total = 3000 on the dot.

So any comments or critisems on the list? I would appreciate any and all advice as the date for 'Ard Boyz draws near.

What spells for Kairos and what lore for the Tz Herald?

I've been trying out a LoC instead of Kairos because I find Kairos has a hard time getting enough power dice for all his spells. A LoC can get the extra power die, which on low magic rolls can make a huge difference. He's also much more killy in combat - albeit a little less survivable from shooting.

Similarly, I found horrors to not be that great. I'd be surprised if they stay at 16 as they close in to use Gift of Chaos. So they are basically a +2 to cast flickering fire of Tz each turn. On one dice, they are still failing on a 1 or a 2. I'd rather just use those dice on my good spells that my lord and herald have.

So, similarly, I like putting my BSB on one of the khorne heralds and giving him obsidian armor. Makes him nice and survivable, and they are already plenty killey.

All that aside, I like the base a lot. I think most of the specials suck now and sticking to max chars/core/rares is the way to go.

I thought about some of those things and decided to change the list up. Now with three squads of Letters. I don't really know which spells Kairos will get as I haven't yet tried the list out, hope to do that Friday, and haven't used the book lores ever in 8th. Throne of Vines seems like a must, but I don't know other then that. Any suggestions? I'm interested to try out different things to see how they work.

BTW how does a LoC get anymore dice then Kairos? Kairos knows Boon of Tzeentch as well, twice in fact.

Lord:

Kairos Fateweaver = 625

Heroes:

Skulltaker on a Juggernaut = 200

Herald of Khorne with Armor of Khorne and either a Firestorm Blade or Soul Hunger = 140

Herald of Khorne with Armor of Khorne and either a Firestorm Blade or Soul Hunger = 140

Herald of Khorne with Obsidian Armor and BSB = 175

Core:

26*Bloodletters, Standard, Musician = 330

25*Bloodletters, Standard, Musician = 318

25*Bloodletters, Standard, Musician = 318


Rare:

5*Bloodcrushers, Standard, Icon of Endless War = 395

5*Flamers = 175

5*Flamers = 175

Total = 2991

pretty solid imo i just think you can shave a couple of points off in taking LoC instead of Karios but apart from that i like maybe some more magic like a tz herald on disk or even the blue scribes just to sit and and some Dmg in the magic phase

Hmm? The way I would run a LoC makes him 10 points more expensive then Kairos. I don't have the book on my but I think it was Lvl 4, Master of Sorcery, and Twin Heads. Is there another good way to run him?

Still I really like the big ol' bird. He gives me 8 spells from the main lores, two lores of tzeentch, and two channels, plus an extra lvl4 in case the first fails to dispell.

All that said I'll take solid as that what I was going for. Maybe with this I can beat my buddy's Nuln Empire list.

arinnoor wrote:Hmm? The way I would run a LoC makes him 10 points more expensive then Kairos. I don't have the book on my but I think it was Lvl 4, Master of Sorcery, and Twin Heads. Is there another good way to run him?

Still I really like the big ol' bird. He gives me 8 spells from the main lores, two lores of tzeentch, and two channels, plus an extra lvl4 in case the first fails to dispell.

All that said I'll take solid as that what I was going for. Maybe with this I can beat my buddy's Nuln Empire list.

I don't think you get two channels - Kairos' rules tell us that he generates dice as a single level 4 wizard; in 8e, I'd read that as a single channeling attempt.

Killyou00's point re: Power Dice is that a Lord of Change can buy Power Vortex to add a die to the power pool; Kairos can't. Extra dice are extremely valuable, as High Elves keep demonstrating to me.

Second page of the Daemons of Chaos FAQ states that Kairos's two heads count as seperate wizards for miscasts and other rules. I assumed that channeling is in other rules.

Oh now I see what you guys are saying. If Kairos dosn't work out I might changing him up for the LoC, or might try the LoC out anyways, but I still want to try out Kairos first.

arinnoor wrote:Second page of the Daemons of Chaos FAQ states that Kairos's two heads count as seperate wizards for miscasts and other rules. I assumed that channeling is in other rules.

Oh now I see what you guys are saying. If Kairos dosn't work out I might changing him up for the LoC, or might try the LoC out anyways, but I still want to try out Kairos first.

Kairos' separate heads were always separate wizards, yes. But I don't think "other rules" is an explicit rewrite of the fairly clear printed rules that he only generates dice as a single wizard; that seems directed at things that effect, for example, "every wizard on the board."

Oh well one channel, plus whole pool, plus boon seems like a good enough number of dice for one wizard. Plus he can cast some death spells to get the number up. I don't think PD are a problem for Kairos either way.

Edit: Does anyone have any other ideas, advice, comments, or critisems about the list? I should be able to get in some playtesting in with it Friday and Saturday, might try out a version with the normal LoC, but don't know.

Oops, forgot no double posting. Edited into previous post.

Here's the thing - Boon isn't as good as 1 guaranteed extra pd. Because you auto fail on a 1 or a 2, you have to throw 2 dice at it. And if you roll low they can dispel it rather easily. So let's say you roll 4/1 or something for magic - you can't really cast boon. But 1 extra auto power dice is very helpful there.

Where boon helps is on high magic rolls. But if you roll high for magic, you're probably doing ok.

I can see where that is better so I will deffiently need to write up a list and try a normal LoC out. What kinda setup does he have?

I use master of sorcery and +1 power die. You can add ignore first miscast or do damage to b2b if you want as well.

Again, he won't be quite the caster that Kairos is, but you'll rely less on high magic rolls and the LoC is a beast in h2h. I'm still deciding between the two myself - didn't mean to say that one is clearly better.

Also depends on the spells/lore you are picking. What set did you have in mind for Kairos?

For Kairos I only planned on using Throne of Vines, and didn't know what else as I've nevered used the main lores, (played Skaven before). Any suggetsions? What lore do you pick for the LoC?

arinnoor wrote:For Kairos I only planned on using Throne of Vines, and didn't know what else as I've nevered used the main lores, (played Skaven before). Any suggetsions? What lore do you pick for the LoC?

For your list, take a look at Life - lots of good buffs to make those T3 Bloodletters more survivable, or bring a few back.

You think taking his four of that head's worth of spells in light would be good? Throne, the raise one, plus thoughness maybe, and regen perhaps?

arinnoor wrote:You think taking his four of that head's worth of spells in light would be good? Throne, the raise one, plus thoughness maybe, and regen perhaps?

No, that was for the LoC. I haven't done a complete analysis for Kairos yet myself, but a good general strategy is that you'll want one "big" destructive spell on each head (targeting different stats - so if you go Purple Sun on the one head, avoid init-attacking spells on the other), a targeted damage spell, a buff, and a hex.

And don't forget that he has all of Tzeentch lore on both heads - when you get down to your last die, you can try and make more dice that way.

So how about this for Kairos.

Left Head:
Throne of Vines, Lore of Life
Final Transmutation, Lore of Metal
Birona's Timewarp, Lore of Light
Curse of Midnight Wind, Lore of Heavens

Right Head:
Purple Sun of Xereus, Lore of Death
Transformation of Kadon, Lore of Beasts
Soul Blight, Lore of Death
Fireball, Lore of Fire


OR I might go with this lineup provided by Tzeentchling9

Left head(Life, Light, Metal, Heavens):

Throne of Vines
Regrowth
Comet of Cassandora
Final Transmutation

Right Head(Shadow, Death, Fire, Beasts):

Melkoth's Mystifing Miasma
Purple Sun of Xereus
Soul Blight
Fulminating Flame Cage