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Same thing with any full God CSM force + the same Daemons god force. I don't think it's worth losing traits over, though, since it's pretty trivial to make Battalions now and they give 5CP per, soooooooooo.
Death Guard Outrider
Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings 180
Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings 180
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
Plagueburst Crawler 140
Plagueburst Crawler 140
Plagueburst Crawler 140
1,990 points
Power Rating 108
Command Points 9
Do I really need that tree at all? The plan is to DS it on turn two to get the plaguebearers in the fight, and give the PBCs somewhere safe to fall back to if they get tied up.
It's always good to have the tree. If your PBCs get charged, you can retreat and shoot. You get better cover, you can advance and charge with all nurgle things. It's great. Even for 85 pts. You might want 2 even.I'd add a bilepiper too. DG doesn't really care about having a pure detachment I don't think
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/22 19:00:05
Death Guard Outrider
Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings 180
Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings 180
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
Plagueburst Crawler 140
Plagueburst Crawler 140
Plagueburst Crawler 140
1,990 points
Power Rating 108
Command Points 9
Do I really need that tree at all? The plan is to DS it on turn two to get the plaguebearers in the fight, and give the PBCs somewhere safe to fall back to if they get tied up.
I was thinking of a similar list honestly but I had concerns regarding the ranged support - even with the bloat drones insane move and the PBC skirting up the board with the help of the tree (and the 7 inch move on the plaguebearers) at the end it seems very close range and for example tau commanders that mvoe 40 inches and can fall back after shooting - kiting troops - gave me worries. I don't have the models for this list (need more plaugebearers and the maw) so i have 0 experience with this type of list - i do favor foetid bloat drones and PBC with epidemius as it seems to tank up the toughness and mirror one of chaos' stronger prior lists (10 PBC).
Hmm. If you want to juggle Oblits, PBC/MBH, and Epidemius, is it worth taking Horticulous to plant your tree, say, when Detachments are limited? What about taking a HERETIC ASTARTES Detachment that combines DG with CSM?
What do people think of fateskimmers? Now with deepstrike being slower for and alpha strike being less effective in general, are they worth taking to try and lock down gun lines asap?
14 inch movement + advance is pretty solid and you can move them up with some screamers to screen so they cant be targetted. They could potentially dish out some serious damage. Im just not sure if they are too expensive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 12:57:04
fishwaffle2232 wrote: What do people think of fateskimmers? Now with deepstrike being slower for and alpha strike being less effective in general, are they worth taking to try and lock down gun lines asap?
14 inch movement + advance is pretty solid and you can move them up with some screamers to screen so they cant be targetted. They could potentially dish out some serious damage. Im just not sure if they are too expensive.
Slaanesh is a bit better at this. 14 inch movement still on Seekers, plus advance, plus charge with a re-roll - and you can run them up with Fiends as well, whose rule prevents the enemy from falling back. If you're willing to soup gods (I'm not; I play mono-Slaanesh ), Fiends + Seekers + Heralds on Seekers are fine additions to Turn 1 tie up units all across the enemy DZ.
This is why I was happy about the DS nerf. Slaanesh can actually participate in the game, instead of just sucking because everyone else was generally faster for anything that mattered.
I think we should try. The only bright side of not being competitive is that you can freely try anything you want without thinking about efficiency: you will loose against any tier-1 army anyways so why bother.
But my opinion is that Fateskimmers are not so good. For about the same points as TS Daemon Prince with wings and Malefic Talons (my basic load-out) we get 2 more attacks and 2 inches of movement but loose 2+ WS, rerolls of 1-s, get T5 instead of 6 and loose a lot in strength (S4 for the Herald itself and S6 for screamers vs S7 for DP). I personally do not think it is a good trade-off, but if you have a model (mine is glued as Exalted Flamer on Chariot) you can always try and see for yourself.
I think we should try. The only bright side of not being competitive is that you can freely try anything you want without thinking about efficiency: you will loose against any tier-1 army anyways so why bother.
But my opinion is that Fateskimmers are not so good. For about the same points as TS Daemon Prince with wings and Malefic Talons (my basic load-out) we get 2 more attacks and 2 inches of movement but loose 2+ WS, rerolls of 1-s, get T5 instead of 6 and loose a lot in strength (S4 for the Herald itself and S6 for screamers vs S7 for DP). I personally do not think it is a good trade-off, but if you have a model (mine is glued as Exalted Flamer on Chariot) you can always try and see for yourself.
Well its 25 points cheaper, which is quite a bit. The lamprey bites are actually 6 x strength 7 attacks (with the aura) which is nice. The 4+ ws is a big difference but I plan on having a daemon prince nearby to make use of +1 strength aura and to provide reroll 1s. The -1 to enemy casting is also really useful.
I havent bought the model yet and Im on the fence about it. I already run 1 DP and im not sure if more than 1 is particularly fluffy or fun for an opponent.
Im trying to fill a cheapish tzeentch battalion to go along with an alpha legion army, I was just interested to hear if anyone else had tried them this edition, because to me they dont look terrible on paper.
fishwaffle2232 wrote: What do people think of fateskimmers? Now with deepstrike being slower for and alpha strike being less effective in general, are they worth taking to try and lock down gun lines asap?
14 inch movement + advance is pretty solid and you can move them up with some screamers to screen so they cant be targetted. They could potentially dish out some serious damage. Im just not sure if they are too expensive.
Slaanesh is a bit better at this. 14 inch movement still on Seekers, plus advance, plus charge with a re-roll - and you can run them up with Fiends as well, whose rule prevents the enemy from falling back. If you're willing to soup gods (I'm not; I play mono-Slaanesh ), Fiends + Seekers + Heralds on Seekers are fine additions to Turn 1 tie up units all across the enemy DZ.
This is why I was happy about the DS nerf. Slaanesh can actually participate in the game, instead of just sucking because everyone else was generally faster for anything that mattered.
I hear you, unfortunately im trying to stick to tzeentch for fluff reason. I agree though I think slaanesh are going to enjoy the changes to DS.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 13:46:37
@fishwaffle2232 - Herald Locus increases the strength characteristic of models, Fateskimmer’s Lamprey Bite has a set strength that is unaffected by that of the model.
Also, Fateskimmer knows two spells, which gives it a bit more versatility than a DP.
Main purpose I can see for it is as part of a fast Tzeentch contingent that also includes a DP and tries to pick targets it can eat in melee. Or maybe deals with units that reach a Horror gunline.
Also, Fateskimmer knows two spells, which gives it a bit more versatility than a DP.
You can always take a Supreme Command or Patrol detachment of Thousand Sons and have their excellent Daemon Princes for the same price. You'll get 2 casts per turn, +6 inches to the range of all powers, stable Smite (Thousand Sons were given an exception from the Psychic Focus changes) and access to CSM and TS powers as well as the Discipline of Change. It is is THE way to take Daemon Princes into any Tzeench army now.
lindsay40k wrote: @fishwaffle2232 - Herald Locus increases the strength characteristic of models, Fateskimmer’s Lamprey Bite has a set strength that is unaffected by that of the model.
Also, Fateskimmer knows two spells, which gives it a bit more versatility than a DP.
Main purpose I can see for it is as part of a fast Tzeentch contingent that also includes a DP and tries to pick targets it can eat in melee. Or maybe deals with units that reach a Horror gunline.
Horrors [12 PL, 220pts]: Instrument of Chaos, 30x Pink Horror
Horrors [4 PL, 30pts]: 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors
Horrors [4 PL, 30pts]: 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors
++ Total: [103 PL, 1828pts] ++
This is the list i was thinking of fitting it into. So basically a fast moving gunline that can shoot on the go and then hit hard with the DP and fateskimmer.
In the list posted I have the changeling instead because im starting to think it might be a better fill for the battalion with the 6++.
Basically the strategy would be to forward operatives the plasma chosen, oblits, the lord and potentially the havocs for some nasty alpha strike shooting with reroll 1. The rest of the army can move up behind with horrors which will gain +1 strength, reroll 1s to hit. The cultists and brims will serve as t2 DS blockers and objective holders ( their main role was to fill battalion slots) and the DP will sit back and wait to get off a safe turn two charge from behind the horrors.
I have also set aside points for summoning and/or splitting.
I guess im not sure if thw changeling is a better fit than the fateskimmer which would also sit behind the horrors and charge with the DP.
I have 14 CP to play with in this list giving me plenty of room for strats.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/25 07:51:57
I guess im not sure if thw changeling is a better fit than the fateskimmer which would also sit behind the horrors and charge with the DP.
Please note that Changeling:
1. Can not FLY.
2. Has small movement.
3. Gives 6+++ to a MODELS, not UNITS in 9'' radius.
4. VERY fragile outside of Melee.
Basically he is useless (though can be fun if you manage to charge something powerful... that happens not so often).
I guess im not sure if thw changeling is a better fit than the fateskimmer which would also sit behind the horrors and charge with the DP.
Please note that Changeling:
1. Can not FLY.
2. Has small movement.
3. Gives 6+++ to a MODELS, not UNITS in 9'' radius.
4. VERY fragile outside of Melee.
Basically he is useless (though can be fun if you manage to charge something powerful... that happens not so often).
1. Never said he can fly... if you mean can charge from behind, its not hard to position horrors to ensure a charge. I actually meant the fateskimmer charging with the DP, may not have made that clear though sorry.
2. Small movement but can advance, realistically not going to fall too far behind the horrors. Also horrors shouldnt have to move too far to get into range with 18inch shooting.
3. If the unit is targetted cant you choose to have shots allocated to models within the 9 inchesand therefore make use of the 6+++.
4. Yes very fragile but he would be a cheap filler unit for the battalion that can cast and offers a buff to the horrors. This last point is perhaps the most important becauae im not sure how often he will see combat and how often he will make back his points. There is however little point in taking another herald in my mind as its a wasted aura when I have one already. The blue scribes are another cheap option but I have found very little information on how effective they are this edition.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/04/25 09:28:19
The fateskimmer does feel overpriced (especially compared to 1KSons Daemon Prince) but what your paying for is the "massive" +1 Str Aura (the size of the base makes a big difference) on a character this is very tricky to get rid. If the aura is going to make a substantial difference to lots of your units, it's worth the steep price-tag (e.g. I use Mauler Fiends, Talon Princes and Horrors, all love that Aura).
Also don't forget the little extras:
-Large Locus of Tzeetch Aura: basically -1 to be hit in combat about half the time (against 3+ WS). Not as good as other Gods, but I've had it swing games.
-Great place for a Daemon Spark warlord- Big Aura and relatively easy to protect.
-Can regenerate wounds (occasionally).
I tend to use one if I've not got many Heralds in an army (1-2), to make sure I have the Aura when and where I need it.
kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote: The fateskimmer does feel overpriced (especially compared to 1KSons Daemon Prince) but what your paying for is the "massive" +1 Str Aura (the size of the base makes a big difference) on a character this is very tricky to get rid. If the aura is going to make a substantial difference to lots of your units, it's worth the steep price-tag (e.g. I use Mauler Fiends, Talon Princes and Horrors, all love that Aura).
Also don't forget the little extras:
-Large Locus of Tzeetch Aura: basically -1 to be hit in combat about half the time (against 3+ WS). Not as good as other Gods, but I've had it swing games.
-Great place for a Daemon Spark warlord- Big Aura and relatively easy to protect.
-Can regenerate wounds (occasionally).
I tend to use one if I've not got many Heralds in an army (1-2), to make sure I have the Aura when and where I need it.
Nice points good to hear someone is using one effectively. I guess my problem is that my army is CSM/daemon so not a huge amount of units that are going to make much use of the aura, only the DP and the horrors really. Thats the reason I have started to consider changeling or scribes.
fishwaffle2232 wrote: I guess my problem is that my army is CSM/daemon so not a huge amount of units that are going to make much use of the aura, only the DP and the horrors really. Thats the reason I have started to consider changeling or scribes.
In that case changling isn't going to be a lot of use (it's Aura is for Daemons), so I'd go for cheap and cheerful: foot herald or Blue scribes.
Yup, 8 wound character with solid toughness, good invulnerable, and good psychic protection. Few armies will be able to snipe or psychic it out, and Brimstones mean you should have plenty of chaff to prevent targeting and control combat.
Most of this can also be said of a Deamon Prince, but I tend to play them more aggressively (and often get them killed).
demontalons wrote: Can seekers be made to work as a counter charge unit in a mostly space marine force?
Seekers are not great counter-charge units; their greatest strength is their speed, but a countercharge unit tends to lurk in its own DZ for a time and let the enemy come to them. Fiends are very expensive but could work, depending on what you're worried about counter-charging, but if you want a really good counter-charge unit that's Slaaneshi, Keepers of Secrets aren't bad, are fairly cheap, and can be summoned with more reliability than any other Greater Daemon (PL12 isn't awful).
demontalons wrote: Can seekers be made to work as a counter charge unit in a mostly space marine force?
Seekers are not great counter-charge units; their greatest strength is their speed, but a countercharge unit tends to lurk in its own DZ for a time and let the enemy come to them. Fiends are very expensive but could work, depending on what you're worried about counter-charging, but if you want a really good counter-charge unit that's Slaaneshi, Keepers of Secrets aren't bad, are fairly cheap, and can be summoned with more reliability than any other Greater Daemon (PL12 isn't awful).
have you tried running daemonettes with The Masque and Delightful Agonies? was wondering how effective it would be as bubblewrap
Death Guard Outrider
Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings 180
Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings 180
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158
Plagueburst Crawler 140
Plagueburst Crawler 140
Plagueburst Crawler 140
1,990 points
Power Rating 108
Command Points 9
Do I really need that tree at all? The plan is to DS it on turn two to get the plaguebearers in the fight, and give the PBCs somewhere safe to fall back to if they get tied up.
Have you tried the list already?
I’m running on Tuesday a very similar one, though instead of the second plaguebesrer unit I have some o Kira and instead of the second daemon Prince I have more oblits.
demontalons wrote: Can seekers be made to work as a counter charge unit in a mostly space marine force?
Seekers are not great counter-charge units; their greatest strength is their speed, but a countercharge unit tends to lurk in its own DZ for a time and let the enemy come to them. Fiends are very expensive but could work, depending on what you're worried about counter-charging, but if you want a really good counter-charge unit that's Slaaneshi, Keepers of Secrets aren't bad, are fairly cheap, and can be summoned with more reliability than any other Greater Daemon (PL12 isn't awful).
have you tried running daemonettes with The Masque and Delightful Agonies? was wondering how effective it would be as bubblewrap
I have, but the Masque's -1 only works in the Fight phase, so I essentially treat her like a non-psychic Herald. Delightful Agonies is arguably the worst power in the Slaanesh deck unfortunately. If it was a 5+ FNP like the literally identical power in the Chaos Space Marine book, it would be much much much better.
Vomikron Noxis wrote: Nah I won’t be trying it for a while, at least until the hobby funds pick up and I can get those PBCs! Interested to hear how yours fares though!
I'm 10 PB away from being able to try that list, and it looks pretty interesting! I'll let you know when I get a chance to use it!
Vomikron Noxis wrote: Nah I won’t be trying it for a while, at least until the hobby funds pick up and I can get those PBCs! Interested to hear how yours fares though!
I'm 10 PB away from being able to try that list, and it looks pretty interesting! I'll let you know when I get a chance to use it!
Ooh please do! On a semi related note: any recommendations on which artefact(s) to take? I could take the helm on one of the DPs, and maybe spend the CPs to take the plate on the other? One could hang with the PBCs and one with the drones perhaps.
), Fiends + Seekers + Heralds on Seekers are fine additions to Turn 1 tie up units all across the enemy DZ.
