Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If I have a dreadnaught standing in a ruin, which was bolstered by a techmarine would it's save go up to 3+ or does it as a walker only get a cover save of a 4+ from it being obscured.

Thanks,

C-Hydra

Walkers, as vehicles, don't get terrain cover saves they only get the obscurement save so it would be a 4+ still.

Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures use the same cover save value as infantry, they just have to meet different standards (being obscured) to get it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevin949 wrote:Walkers, as vehicles, don't get terrain cover saves they only get the obscurement save so it would be a 4+ still.

Not true at all. See P62 paragraph 6:
""it may take a cover save against it exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound (for example, a save of 5+ for a hedge, 4+ for a building, 3+ for a fortification..."

The only reference to obscured=4+ is paragraph 7 which talks about special rules and wargear that grant obscured status and don't specify a value.

they would get the 3+, Scott-S6 said it all.

Scott-S6 wrote:Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures use the same cover save value as infantry, they just have to meet different standards (being obscured) to get it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevin949 wrote:Walkers, as vehicles, don't get terrain cover saves they only get the obscurement save so it would be a 4+ still.

Not true at all. See P62 paragraph 6:
""it may take a cover save against it exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound (for example, a save of 5+ for a hedge, 4+ for a building, 3+ for a fortification..."

The only reference to obscured=4+ is paragraph 7 which talks about special rules and wargear that grant obscured status and don't specify a value.

Gotcha. Though I did mean more along the lines of they wouldn't get a save by just being in area terrain like normal infantry would (I.E. blast craters). But, I wasn't aware they did get the same save as infantry. Well, MC's I knew that, not walkers. Shoulda known though, walkers get the best of both worlds and the drawbacks of neither.

Kevin949 wrote: But, I wasn't aware they did get the same save as infantry. Well, MC's I knew that, not walkers. Shoulda known though, walkers get the best of both worlds and the drawbacks of neither.

That doesn't just apply to walkers... it's how it works for all vehicles.

There is no such thing as an 'obscurement' save. Vehicles take cover saves just like everyone else. The only difference for vehicles is that whereas most other models are in cover if they are obscured even slightly, vehicles only count as in cover if they are at least 50% obscured, or a special rule counts them as being obscured.

The 4+ you referenced is the save they receive if they are counted as obscured by a special rule without actually being physically obscured. But it's still a cover save, not an 'obscured save'.

Hm...maybe I'm just thinking 4+ because those are the only types of terrain that ever cover up enough of my lith for the save to get taken.

most of the time a Vehicle will only be getting a 4+ as things which give 5+ saves are generally too small to hide behind and 3+ cover is pretty rare.

but, Yes indeed. the Walker may claim 3+ from a Bolstered ruin.


this is why a 6 dred SM army with a MOTF and a ruin with 3 Riflemen dreds is a huge pain to remove.

Unfortunately the rule on p62 that has been referenced is completely and totally superseded by the bullet point two lines up from paragraph 6 stating "Vehicles are not obscured simply tor being inside area terrain. The 50% rule given above takes precedence." and in conjunction with the very first rule for ruins on page 86 paragraph 3 "All ruins are area terrain (providing a 4+ cover save) and difficult terrain." These two rules remove any and all possibilities of any vehicle in standard conditions of getting a cover save from being in any area terrain bolstered or otherwise. Insaniak is right on what he stated. I just wanted to reference the rules and pages they are on that make him right.

IF a vehicle happened to be covered up to 50% by a bolstered defense then the vehicle would benefit from getting a cover save that is improved by the bolstering as the building has been reinforced. But the 50% rule rules all vehicle covers. Other than pieces of wargear and psychic powers that give cover saves to vehicles no piece of terrain can confer a coversave on a vehicle for the vehicle simply being inside of it. And no, walkers are not infantry. Hence being in the vehicle section. They just move LIKE infantry and fight LIKE infantry. They are vehicles, they take covers saves like vehicles.

I disagree. MOST ruins built from CoD kits have a lot of LOS reducing elements; you can easily achieve 50% coverage of the dread.

tanks and such have to be 50% covered by true LOS.

Old thread is old...