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Seeing as there is a WAAAAAAGH of ork players here I'd like to ask for advice.

I've been thinking Tyranids, but I looked at ork models again, and I just love 'em.

I'm not interested in the boy spam or weirdboy spam. What are my options for something else? I like the idea of walkers and maybe some aircraft, the burna bomma looks pretty good. I need to be able to TAC.

Azhday wrote:
Unfortunately Warbiker Boss Nob only gets to swap his choppa for other Choppy Weapon
But on Biker Mek or Biker Boss it could be nice. Combi-Skorcha could also work nice, but a lil more expensive.

Yeah, it's what I remembered after my analysis. I thought it was still worth sharing to my fellow ork warbosses! But a KFF biker mek can't have a kustom shoota, because he has a KFF. And nobody would use a non-KFF biker mek...

 MrVulcanator wrote:
Seeing as there is a WAAAAAAGH of ork players here I'd like to ask for advice.

I've been thinking Tyranids, but I looked at ork models again, and I just love 'em.

I'm not interested in the boy spam or weirdboy spam. What are my options for something else? I like the idea of walkers and maybe some aircraft, the burna bomma looks pretty good. I need to be able to TAC.

Your lists won't be fantastic, but in general with orks, when you do something, you need to overdo it. If you want walkers, bring at least 6 killa kanz and 3 dreads, a gorkanaut, and fill in the extra points with more walkers. I recommend 9 kanz to use as a screen (so what grots are good at anyway), 3 dreads, at least one of which has skorchas, and a gorkanaut-morkanaut combo. The morkanaut is worse, yes, but it has a lot of KFF coverage due to its large base and is just as durable granted you don't roll 1's for its kustom weapons. It pretty much only works if you also have a gorkanaut. Throw in a few big meks for repairs and you've got a decent list. Nothing fantastic, but at least your army will look cooler than your opponent's.

If you want flyers, bring a bunch- ours are pretty flimsy. The burna bomma is completely worse than the blitza bomma. The burna is more expensive and does less damage. It really should be much cheaper. The dakkajet is decent and the blitza bomma is a good source of mortal wounds on large squads.

 MrVulcanator wrote:
Seeing as there is a WAAAAAAGH of ork players here I'd like to ask for advice.

I've been thinking Tyranids, but I looked at ork models again, and I just love 'em.

I'm not interested in the boy spam or weirdboy spam. What are my options for something else? I like the idea of walkers and maybe some aircraft, the burna bomma looks pretty good. I need to be able to TAC.

It is just possible that orks will be fixed next week, at least partially. If so, any advice we give now will be moot.

Cross your fingers.

 MrVulcanator wrote:
Seeing as there is a WAAAAAAGH of ork players here I'd like to ask for advice.

I've been thinking Tyranids, but I looked at ork models again, and I just love 'em.

I'm not interested in the boy spam or weirdboy spam. What are my options for something else? I like the idea of walkers and maybe some aircraft, the burna bomma looks pretty good. I need to be able to TAC.

I've fielded walkers + burna bommers a couple of times and it works ok against armies that have no codex yet - tau, necrons, dark eldar, daemons and the like. Don't expect miracles, a couple of lucky d6 damage rolls will simply make you lose, but it is possible to win games.

However, all models involved are horribly overcosted currently, a space marine player can replace ever single walker and plane with one of his and have a vastly better army than an ork could field.

Chapter approved is due next week, we all are hoping for some major point drops across the board, plus we get additional stratagems and warlord traits, which might help as well. Until then, don't spent any money on models unless it's an insanely good deal.


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 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 MrVulcanator wrote:
Seeing as there is a WAAAAAAGH of ork players here I'd like to ask for advice.

I've been thinking Tyranids, but I looked at ork models again, and I just love 'em.

I'm not interested in the boy spam or weirdboy spam. What are my options for something else? I like the idea of walkers and maybe some aircraft, the burna bomma looks pretty good. I need to be able to TAC.

Your lists won't be fantastic, but in general with orks, when you do something, you need to overdo it. If you want walkers, bring at least 6 killa kanz and 3 dreads, a gorkanaut, and fill in the extra points with more walkers. I recommend 9 kanz to use as a screen (so what grots are good at anyway), 3 dreads, at least one of which has skorchas, and a gorkanaut-morkanaut combo. The morkanaut is worse, yes, but it has a lot of KFF coverage due to its large base and is just as durable granted you don't roll 1's for its kustom weapons. It pretty much only works if you also have a gorkanaut. Throw in a few big meks for repairs and you've got a decent list. Nothing fantastic, but at least your army will look cooler than your opponent's.

I wouldn't bother with a morkanaut just for the KFF. You can have 3 big meks for the same points, which means three walkers regaining d3 wounds each turn (make sure to get the grot oiler), and you army can split into three, which it cannot if it needs to stay close to one KFF naut. A unit of kanz with a KFF are frustratingly good objective campers, since their shooting is actually decent, you are not losing anything. Kanz with either rokkits or KMB are a way better unit than deff dreads.

If you want flyers, bring a bunch- ours are pretty flimsy. The burna bomma is completely worse than the blitza bomma. The burna is more expensive and does less damage. It really should be much cheaper. The dakkajet is decent and the blitza bomma is a good source of mortal wounds on large squads.

The burna bommer actually does more damage and only costs almost the same, since it has one more BS 4+ big shoota and will explode into a huge ball of fire on a 4+. Against infantry both bombs do exactly the same damage, and neither bomb should be dropped on anything else.
The best you can do is fly your burna bommer into the middle of his army, bomb and shoot some expensive infantry unit (no horde units), and then either use a CP to make sure it puts mortal wounds on everything when it dies, or drop another bomb next turn.

Any one tried out Supa-kannon Battlewagons? Had any luck with them?
You can get 7 Kannons for the same price, so equal to average Supa-kannon shots, but Grots are better at shooting.
On the other hand BWs are harder to kill, can move more (and still shoot), have smaller footprint and Supa-kannon has 60' range.

 MrVulcanator wrote:
Seeing as there is a WAAAAAAGH of ork players here I'd like to ask for advice.

I've been thinking Tyranids, but I looked at ork models again, and I just love 'em.

I'm not interested in the boy spam or weirdboy spam. What are my options for something else? I like the idea of walkers and maybe some aircraft, the burna bomma looks pretty good. I need to be able to TAC.

I'd suggest to wait for the codex. At the moment the only orks lists that work (even in friendly games) are green tides and maybe dread mobs. Both of them are very thematic and if you don't love those specific styles of playing you may get bored very soon. I don't dislike ork walkers for example, but a full dread mob IMHO is extremely limitating and dull and I don't know if it can be properly TAC.

Unfortunately mixed styles are not working with the current index. Buy (and paint) the models you like most, those ones you would have get anyway, regardless of their effectiveness in the game.

Not exactly blowing my mind here. That's a handful (~3.3 on average) of extra hits from a 30 shoota boy unit...

So basically the only units that stratagem is good for seems to be lootas and tank bustas...

And on max mob, max shots of lootas your only looking at like 2.1 extra hits...

Tank bustas seem to work the best, but what a full mob of tank bustas shoots at will most likeky die regardless.

And gork forbid anything have a negative modifier...

It's lazy, uninspiring and doesn't help us at all. As you say best case scenario it generates a handful of extra shots for a unit of Lootas.

Meanwhile the Tyranids have a strategem that just lets them shoot again with a unit of Hive Guard with no drawbacks or caveats of rolling a 6.

At this point I'm starting to think they are either A) Trolling us or B) Have no clue how to balance this game

Naturally the best strategem they could give orks is dependent on a 1/6 chance. Brilliant.

 Weazel wrote:
Not exactly blowing my mind here. That's a handful (~3.3 on average) of extra hits from a 30 shoota boy unit...

Wow, so underwhelming...

I think its time to face facts, Orks are still and always will be, the comic relief faction that they put zero effort into, and are basically there to forge the narrative as they are blown to bits by all and sundry.

Had high hopes for 8th edition, but if this is the strategem they choose to highlight the "cool new things" it doesn't bode well that they understand the issues surrounding orks being unplayable right now

Let's for once try not to cry for the sky to be falling until we have all the info.

Not that I'm not disappointed by that stratagem as well... even with a unit of lootaz or warbikers shooting 45 shots, you get an average of 2.5 additional hits, which is about two additional models worth of shooting.

It also cannot be used on artillery (they are vehicles), kanz, koptaz, buggies, nauts, planes or battlewagons.

Best value would be on - wait for it - nob bikerz with kustom shootaz. Well that, or just throw it on the SAG and hope for hot dice

Chapter approved rumour...
1CP 2 infantry units within 2" of each other and one contains more than 10 models and the other less than 10 models, you may combine them into a single unit for the rest of the game at the end of the movement phase
This sounds fun, hope its true.

The sky may not be falling but my enthusiasm for my main army and this hobby certainly is, sadly. I'll still hold onto plenty of hope that we have some far better stratagems to come as well as some more direct improvements to the faction as a whole. 1CP for this stratagem compared to 2CP for Endless Cacophony, that's quite a large difference in usability. I'll certainly stick to spending all my CP on re-rolls and Sewer Rats (when playing Cities of Death) or auto-passing morale of this is the best we get in Chapter Approved. With all the modifiers to to-hit rolls that are around it seems far better to just not invest in shooting at all, this stratagem won't change that for me.

I hope they added this Stratagem just to fill up the Ork page and that there will be actually useful Stratagems in both CA and Codex.

Math:
30x Shoota Boyz = 10 bonus attacks; 3.33 bonus hits
15x Lootaz (average roll of 1.5 for number of attacks) = 3.75 bonus attacks; 1.25 bonus hit
15x Lootaz (that rolled 3 on number of attacks) = 7.5 bonus attacks; 2.5 bonus hits
15x Tankbustas = 2.5 bonus attacks; 0.833 bonus hits
15x Tankbustas (vs. Vechicle) = 2.5 bonus attacks + 1.66 bonus attacks after rerolls; 0.833 bonus hits (from 2.5 bonus attacks) + 0.277 bonus hits (from reroll of those bonus attacks that failed) + 0.5533 bonus hits (from bonus attacks after rerolls of failed regular attacks) + 0.18511 bonus hits (from rerolls of bonus attacks made after rerolling regular attacks that failed) so all together SUM = 1.84889 bonus hits (I'm not really sure this is accurate and even if it is accurate I don't know if you can add up those bonus attacks/hits like that, pls help x)
I am counting it as you get only one bonus attack, not full attacks of weapon. I was too lazy to calculate bonus wounds. And all that without "to hit" penalties.

Works nice on anything that can reroll misses, so full Tankbustas (vs. Vehicles) and full Flash Gits with full Runts and Badrukk.

I would guess that the best use would be Flashgits that have not moved with Badrukk. Not saying that would be a great unit, just perhaps the best use of a meh, stratagem. Orks simply don't hit enough for it to be all that great. Marines have a similar stratagem that is OK, but that is because say 6 extra attacks convert to 4 hits not 2.

We'll see what the Codex actually holds next year - for now, my hope is that this Stratagem is a stop-gap one; one that's just to tide us over until more revised and tested options are in the codex//and/or the feedback+performance regarding it will be taken into consideration, and revised in the Codex.

I mean, it doesn't even work if you're shooting at a unit with -1 to hit.

So I'm thinking a mechanized spam list right now. I'm playing a league that increases poinst by 50 every week. We will reach 650 after Christmas. The league caps at 1400 eventually. My current shopping list is:

2x Big Meks

9x Killa Kans

1x Gorkanaut.

 MrVulcanator wrote:
So I'm thinking a mechanized spam list right now. I'm playing a league that increases poinst by 50 every week. We will reach 650 after Christmas. The league caps at 1400 eventually. My current shopping list is:

2x Big Meks

9x Killa Kans

1x Gorkanaut.

With those units you are going to loose nine out of ten games. I you want to win, you need boyz. Lots of boyz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Weazel wrote:


Not exactly blowing my mind here. That's a handful (~3.3 on average) of extra hits from a 30 shoota boy unit...

It is an additional 16.7% hits out of any unit, really. Kind of lame when you think about it.

Apparently Orks are not meant to shoot.

So for 2CP other factions get 100% more shots (unit shoot again), and we get +16.6% more shots for 1CP. Seems fair!

If at least these new attacks could generate more attacks on 6s...

 MrVulcanator wrote:
So I'm thinking a mechanized spam list right now. I'm playing a league that increases poinst by 50 every week. We will reach 650 after Christmas. The league caps at 1400 eventually. My current shopping list is:

2x Big Meks

9x Killa Kans

1x Gorkanaut.

Get at least one deff dread to mix with the kanz. Kanz are too weak to field on their own. In fact, 2 dreads and 3 kanz is probably better than 9 kanz.

Some naftka rumors point to a potentially useful stratagem, however. Basically, if one unit has more than 10 models, and another within 2" has less than 10, the two can merge and form one unit.

If that just lets you form one unit of boyz from a large one and a small one that's.........ok, ish.

But if you could fit say, meganobz or an HQ into a large unit of boyz, that could be amazing.

Also a rumor for a warlord trait of +1 strength (ok-ish), and a marginal melee weapon.

https://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/chapter-approved-details-tau-orks-and.html

pismakron wrote:


It is an additional 16.7% hits out of any unit, really. Kind of lame when you think about it.

Apparently Orks are not meant to shoot.

Unfortunately it's not an additional 16.7% hits. Hit rolls of 6 generate an additional attack, which itself still needs to hit. So if you shot 45 times with a maxed-out unit of Lootas, you'd hit on average 15 times, and half of those hits would be 6's. You'd then generate an extra 7.5 attacks, which hit around twice.

We'll see what the Codex actually holds next year - for now, my hope is that this Stratagem is a stop-gap one; one that's just to tide us over until more revised and tested options are in the codex//and/or the feedback+performance regarding it will be taken into consideration, and revised in the Codex.

What really worries me is the implications this has for our codex. This reveals their thought processes with Orks; some rules writer actually sat down and said "Yep, this looks great". I'm feeling pretty damn deflated this morning, and a lot of the hope I had for Chapter Approved is just gone at this point. The only thing I'm looking forward to now is points changes, but given that they think this is a decent stratagem, I'm not at all convinced that our points changes are going to be decent.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Some naftka rumors point to a potentially useful stratagem, however. Basically, if one unit has more than 10 models, and another within 2" has less than 10, the two can merge and form one unit.

If that just lets you form one unit of boyz from a large one and a small one that's.........ok, ish.

But if you could fit say, meganobz or an HQ into a large unit of boyz, that could be amazing.

Also a rumor for a warlord trait of +1 strength (ok-ish), and a marginal melee weapon.

https://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/chapter-approved-details-tau-orks-and.html

The melee weapon looks great, finally giving us some ability to dish out mortal wounds in CC, and makes a Warboss S8 with -2AP. That's pretty good. The +1 strength just seems bad. Warbosses are already S6 so S7 helps none unless you want a S14 PK.

You could also fit 9 tank bustaz, burnaz, nobz, flash gits and more in units of boyz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
The melee weapon looks great, finally giving us some ability to dish out mortal wounds in CC, and makes a Warboss S8 with -2AP. That's pretty good. The +1 strength just seems bad. Warbosses are already S6 so S7 helps none unless you want a S14 PK.

S14 PKs wound most vehicles and monsters in the game on 2+. I want one.

Also S9 big choppa warboss.

 Jidmah wrote:
You could also fit 9 tank bustaz, burnaz, nobz, flash gits and more in units of boyz.

This is what we really need. It allows us to keep specialists safe without outright buffing their stats. Sadly I'm really thinking it's going to only allow you to do that to units of the same type.

 Glane wrote:


Unfortunately it's not an additional 16.7% hits. Hit rolls of 6 generate an additional attack, which itself still needs to hit. So if you shot 45 times with a maxed-out unit of Lootas, you'd hit on average 15 times, and half of those hits would be 6's. You'd then generate an extra 7.5 attacks, which hit around twice.

7.5 shoots will yield 2.5 hits, and 2.5 additional hits is a 16.7% increase on 15 hits. It is not exactly useless, but it is very much meh.

Frankly I'll take the relic if only because the -1 to hit with the PK has completely nerfed the ability of mega armour units to actually be effective in CC for their cost. Too many times has my WB charged in and basically done nothing.

But yeah, 2CP to fire again vs. this thing? Very close to a sense of humour failure here.