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She's a Jedi youngling, who gets stabbed by Anakin, but doesn't die because she can 'play dead' and apparently nobody was checking when clearing the temple.
She gets away and somehow becomes an Inquisitor, because she's really angry at Obi-wan for having trained Anakin and not having been at the temple to stop him killing kids (you'd think that, being fully aware of Order 66, she'd have got a clue that he was otherwise engaged at the time), and at Vader for killing her friends.
Vader knows that she wants to kill him, but keeps her around because she's really angry at Obi-wan. But then when he has the chance to capture/kill Obi-wan he just doesn't because the force can only be used to extinguish fires once per episode, and all of the nearby stormtroopers were off-screen at the time.
Then when she does betray Vader, he... still doesn't kill her, because lightsaber impalement/dismemberment is only fatal in this universe if you're Quigon, and he's learnt nothing from the last time this exact thing happened between him and her.
She's still big mad at Obi-wan (who she also didn't kill when she had the chance...) so she uses the message Organa sent (making him one of the most idiotic characters in fiction) to go and kill Luke, who as far as she knows is just some rando who happens to be somehow connected to Obi-wan.
She's a Jedi youngling, who gets stabbed by Anakin, but doesn't die because she can 'play dead' and apparently nobody was checking when clearing the temple.
She gets away and somehow becomes an Inquisitor, because she's really angry at Obi-wan for having trained Anakin and not having been at the temple to stop him killing kids (you'd think that, being fully aware of Order 66, she'd have got a clue that he was otherwise engaged at the time), and at Vader for killing her friends.
Vader knows that she wants to kill him, but keeps her around because she's really angry at Obi-wan. But then when he has the chance to capture/kill Obi-wan he just doesn't because the force can only be used to extinguish fires once per episode, and all of the nearby stormtroopers were off-screen at the time.
Then when she does betray Vader, he... still doesn't kill her, because lightsaber impalement/dismemberment is only fatal in this universe if you're Quigon, and he's learnt nothing from the last time this exact thing happened between him and her.
She's still big mad at Obi-wan (who she also didn't kill when she had the chance...) so she uses the message Organa sent (making him one of the most idiotic characters in fiction) to go and kill Luke, who as far as she knows is just some rando who happens to be somehow connected to Obi-wan.
Then she goes off to cameo in some future show.
slightly better than that
she is a former youngling who surived the temple massacre, but most of the inquistors are fallen jedi anyway ( mentioned by kenobi, and in Rebels, the Grand Inquistor is a former temple guard), for example, so thats not a problem per se. Likewise, the fact she hates vader and wants to kill him is sith 101. Her obsession with Anakin is mainly as a means to an end (getting enough favour to get close to vader), though she might blame him for failing to stop anakins turn to evil as well.
i still dont know how she worked out that Luke is Vader's son, given that she never met Luke, only Owen, and the stupid message (but not impossible, desperate parents do stupid things, and sending a message on a secure point to point receiver isnt too much of a stretch) never names Luke or identifies him as anyone special, but that is her motivation to try and kill Luke, as revenge on vader, and her flashbacks to her own childhood trauma stop her.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/30 18:54:01
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Geifer wrote: - Since it's obviously not possible to neatly kill Vader in combat
Why not? If that cut through the helmet was an inch or two deeper that would have been the end of him right there. We've seen plenty of fatal lightsaber blows delivered in combat.
The problem is that putting Obi Wan in this situation doesn't allow him to come out clean.
Well yes, that's kind of the point. I'm not sure why "they didn't use pure black and white morality where the good guys are always perfect" is such an unacceptable flaw to you?
Exactly. At least in the old canon it was explicit that a sith master trains an apprentice knowing full well that the apprentice will try to kill them at some point. If the apprentice fails (or fails to make the attempt at all) then the apprentice was weak and can be discarded in favor of someone stronger. If the apprentice succeeds then they have proved their strength and that they deserve the position of master, and the sith cause is advanced. Vader keeping around an inquisitor who wants to kill him is entirely in line with the sith "if you kill me you deserve the position" ideology. If anything he would have even more contempt for a pathetic slave of an inquisitor who has no ambitions beyond serving someone stronger and won't even attempt to seize power by stepping over the bodies of their former masters.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/26 21:17:25
The issues isn't clean black and white morality It's that this fight was just a repeat of the last one. Obi wins, and Vader goes for a roll in the fire. The message from Episode 4 is upheld and all the dialog matches. Having them fight 2 more times ends with a for gone conclusion. Vader wins the first fight to establish him as a threat and Obi wins the second fight so that they can have a repeat of the discussion they had in episode 3.
Obi: "You were my friend. I am in grief"
Anakin: "I hate you. I will kill you"
And then they separate both alive so that they can meet on the death star in another 10 years.
Lets all hope for Obi Wan s2 so we can watch them have this circumstance/dialog for the 3rd god damn time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/26 21:54:34
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I suspect if we do get a Season 2, Vader won’t be involved at all.
Rather we’ll see Kenobi doing Good Jedi Deeds.
In fact, if anyone other than me recalls the Ewar Woowar show “The Equalizer”? To see a Jedi based Private Eye trouble shooter show could be quite something.
I mean….Kenobi lived on Tattooine. He was was known to Jabba. Jabba pretty much owns Tattooine. How come Jabba never figured he could curry favour and make some dosh by selling Kenobi out? There’s a potential story right there.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
In fact, if anyone other than me recalls the Ewar Woowar show “The Equalizer”? To see a Jedi based Private Eye trouble shooter show could be quite something.
I mean….Kenobi lived on Tattooine. He was was known to Jabba. Jabba pretty much owns Tattooine. How come Jabba never figured he could curry favour and make some dosh by selling Kenobi out? There’s a potential story right there.
Soooooo, a weird desert hobo version of Book of Boba then? No thanks, I'm really done with more stories being told on Tattooine and if anything this just doubles down on trying to expand a backstory of Obi Wan (who was supposed to lay low and just keep an eye on Luke) that isn't necessary and will have forced drama and conflict for the sake of drawing out viewership.
If I wanted a Private Eye show, I would want it more in the context of something that looked like it would be covered in the cancelled Star Wars game 1313, where it looked like we would be able to see more of Coruscant's underbelly. New characters and smugglers with no affiliation to the Rebels or Empire would be a nice way of setting up new worldbuilding without having to constantly drudge up the same conflicts we've seen before.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/26 23:36:05
In fact, if anyone other than me recalls the Ewar Woowar show “The Equalizer”? To see a Jedi based Private Eye trouble shooter show could be quite something.
I mean….Kenobi lived on Tattooine. He was was known to Jabba. Jabba pretty much owns Tattooine. How come Jabba never figured he could curry favour and make some dosh by selling Kenobi out? There’s a potential story right there.
Probably because Jabba is intelligent enough to know not to rock the boat. He owns the planet and there is only a token imperial force there. He's not going to risk calling down vader and a legion of troops over him for the sake of some cash.
In fact, if anyone other than me recalls the Ewar Woowar show “The Equalizer”? To see a Jedi based Private Eye trouble shooter show could be quite something.
I mean….Kenobi lived on Tattooine. He was was known to Jabba. Jabba pretty much owns Tattooine. How come Jabba never figured he could curry favour and make some dosh by selling Kenobi out? There’s a potential story right there.
Probably because Jabba is intelligent enough to know not to rock the boat. He owns the planet and there is only a token imperial force there. He's not going to risk calling down vader and a legion of troops over him for the sake of some cash.
Which in itself is in fact a story untold.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
In fact, if anyone other than me recalls the Ewar Woowar show “The Equalizer”? To see a Jedi based Private Eye trouble shooter show could be quite something.
I mean….Kenobi lived on Tattooine. He was was known to Jabba. Jabba pretty much owns Tattooine. How come Jabba never figured he could curry favour and make some dosh by selling Kenobi out? There’s a potential story right there.
Probably because Jabba is intelligent enough to know not to rock the boat. He owns the planet and there is only a token imperial force there. He's not going to risk calling down vader and a legion of troops over him for the sake of some cash.
Which in itself is in fact a story untold.
I mean, you could probably have an entire sidestory about how wookies on Kashykk were enslaved by the Empire, but it's not something they would likely make a whole show about.
Sometimes it's not about if you could, but if you should.
In fact, if anyone other than me recalls the Ewar Woowar show “The Equalizer”? To see a Jedi based Private Eye trouble shooter show could be quite something.
I mean….Kenobi lived on Tattooine. He was was known to Jabba. Jabba pretty much owns Tattooine. How come Jabba never figured he could curry favour and make some dosh by selling Kenobi out? There’s a potential story right there.
Probably because Jabba is intelligent enough to know not to rock the boat. He owns the planet and there is only a token imperial force there. He's not going to risk calling down vader and a legion of troops over him for the sake of some cash.
Which in itself is in fact a story untold.
But is it a story worth telling? (Whatever the story is supposed to be here. Two people that don't want to attract direct attention from the Empire... don't have a conflict?)
Kenobi's whole bag in this period is being in hiding. Dumb things happen if he comes out. We've acknowledged he's there, and the execution was pretty horrible. We don't need more reasons to demonstrate how bad he is at hiding.
----
On a (slightly different note), Disney+ is showing Star Wars in Timeline Order, which is disturbing that they have enough SW crap to feel that's necessary. Most of its pretty obvious, but between the prequels and OT, they have
Bad Batch --> Solo --> Kenobi ---> Rebels ---> Rogue One.
The show crossover potential annoys me, particularly with Bad Batch 2 is an upcoming thing (and the lack of clarity of how much of a time jump it has). But gosh, now I'm picture Omega as a bodyguard/combat tutor for young Leia and them walking past young Han in a space port, obvious Boba Fett role and the whole open season of star wars street. Ignore that sound in the background, I'm just trying to talk over Mel Brooks yelling 'Merchandising, merchandising, merchandising!'
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/27 03:04:17
Geifer wrote: - Since it's obviously not possible to neatly kill Vader in combat
Why not? If that cut through the helmet was an inch or two deeper that would have been the end of him right there. We've seen plenty of fatal lightsaber blows delivered in combat.
Then you need to introduce story how vader comes back from death in time for anh.
Geifer wrote: - Since it's obviously not possible to neatly kill Vader in combat
Why not? If that cut through the helmet was an inch or two deeper that would have been the end of him right there. We've seen plenty of fatal lightsaber blows delivered in combat.
Then you need to introduce story how vader comes back from death in time for anh.
frustatingly, we seem to be seeing the groundwork for making that stupid line make sense NOW, not before the Rise of Skywalker. Mando and kenboi have both delt in passing with the empire rounding up force sensitives for Some Nefarious Plan, and im pretty sure its the Emperors Get Out Of Death Free card they are working on.
if only they had thought to include some of this in Rise itself, it might have been ok.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Geifer wrote: - Since it's obviously not possible to neatly kill Vader in combat
Why not? If that cut through the helmet was an inch or two deeper that would have been the end of him right there. We've seen plenty of fatal lightsaber blows delivered in combat.
Why not? Because he doesn't die for another decade and a half. Did you miss that my entire post was about the writers' choices, not in universe possibilities?
The problem is that putting Obi Wan in this situation doesn't allow him to come out clean.
Well yes, that's kind of the point. I'm not sure why "they didn't use pure black and white morality where the good guys are always perfect" is such an unacceptable flaw to you?
Is grey morality actually a point made about Obi Wan in the show? I must have missed that, which is strange because Lucasfilm isn't subtle about morality (or to be taken as an authority on ethics when it comes down to it).
And why would that point be made about one of the most virtuous Jedi we know in the first place?
Obi Wan isn't without flaws, but they're pretty much limited to his liberal and unethical use of the mind trick, which is only used on designated bad guys and therefore supposed to be overlooked, and telling Luke he should be trained as an assassin so he can murder his own father, which is Jedi policy first and foremost.
Also, thanks for misrepresenting my argument and motivation, I guess.
xerxeskingofking wrote: frustatingly, we seem to be seeing the groundwork for making that stupid line make sense NOW, not before the Rise of Skywalker. Mando and kenboi have both delt in passing with the empire rounding up force sensitives for Some Nefarious Plan, and im pretty sure its the Emperors Get Out Of Death Free card they are working on.
if only they had thought to include some of this in Rise itself, it might have been ok.
If only they had planned out the sequel trilogy? Well, wouldn't that have been a good idea...
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
She's a Jedi youngling, who gets stabbed by Anakin, but doesn't die because she can 'play dead' and apparently nobody was checking when clearing the temple.
She gets away and somehow becomes an Inquisitor, because she's really angry at Obi-wan for having trained Anakin and not having been at the temple to stop him killing kids (you'd think that, being fully aware of Order 66, she'd have got a clue that he was otherwise engaged at the time), and at Vader for killing her friends.
Vader knows that she wants to kill him, but keeps her around because she's really angry at Obi-wan. But then when he has the chance to capture/kill Obi-wan he just doesn't because the force can only be used to extinguish fires once per episode, and all of the nearby stormtroopers were off-screen at the time.
Then when she does betray Vader, he... still doesn't kill her, because lightsaber impalement/dismemberment is only fatal in this universe if you're Quigon, and he's learnt nothing from the last time this exact thing happened between him and her.
She's still big mad at Obi-wan (who she also didn't kill when she had the chance...) so she uses the message Organa sent (making him one of the most idiotic characters in fiction) to go and kill Luke, who as far as she knows is just some rando who happens to be somehow connected to Obi-wan.
Then she goes off to cameo in some future show.
Agreed
Anyway I still think Mando crushed it and was much better than this show. If I had to rate it would be 8/10 Mando, 6/10 Kenobi, 5/10 Boba Fett so far. I'd rate the clone wars cartoon around a 7-8/10 then.
Will I rewatch this? Probably. I might start on episode 3 or 4 and skip the first two however.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/28 11:26:16
just saw this on youtube commentator vid, but apparently Disney released the viewing figures for the finale of Kenobi, which were "1.8 million US households", a significant jump on the finale viewers for Book of boba fett (1.5 million) or season 2 of Madolorian (1.1 million). i dont have a time frame for which these numbers were gathered form, but i'd guess the first few days after the release of the finale.
i think its safe to say that disney will be looking to make a season 2, and it will be intresting to see if Mado season 3 has an even higher viewership. Clearly, what they are doing is working, and its creating content that people are watching.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Andor starts in a few months, so if Disney keeps releasing number it'll be interesting to see how it goes. I don't expect that Andor can reach Obi Wan. There will be plenty of people who watch because of the big names. As great as Grogu was to get people's attention for the first live action show, if you make a show about Darth Vader and Obi Wan Kenobi you'll simply have a larger pool of interested viewers to draw on. I'm looking forward to Andor myself, but I don't think the show has anywhere near that kind of draw.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
For better or for worse, going for shows with well established and popular characters works. New characters either get cult favouritism (Mando and Ahsoka after Filoni grew the character up) or nobody really cares (basically everyone in Rogue One). Take Rebels, it was fine as a fun kids show with contained characters but it wasn't super popular. So what did the showrunners do? They brought in Vader, Ahsoka, the Mandolorians, and one of the most beloved EU characters, Thrawn. Rebels did what Clone Wars had before, becoming a place where EU material could be inserted into canon without needing a full movie about it. But nobody really cares about the main cast, just that it added loads of EU stuff like TIE Defenders, Interdictors, Sith super weapons and popular characters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 10:50:11
The problem Rogue One had wasn't just that it was new characters. It was a LOT of new characters. It's a bit like the superhero films we get now where you've got a mash-up of a dozen or more different heroes.
What basically happens is you've so many new characters all established in the setting that you're taken along for the ride but given very little time with each character for them to establish themselves. Plus because so many are already established in the setting, you don't get that "here's the start of the adventure" type situation.
You're basically jumping into book 2 of a trilogy and missing out book 1. Yes it can work, sometimes it works great; but its tricky for viewers to start building a relation with the characters.
Rogue One didn’t need to build up the characters they much.
We’re familiar with the overall setting. We’re familiar with the Bad Guys Dastardly Plan, and why it’s kind of important it’s stopped.
What it did add was to show how desperate the Rebels were (remember, Andor isn’t a Nice Guy. Straight up murders someone to save his own skin. Very nearly murders Jyn’s Dad.
Crucially? For the first time on the big screen, we see just how heavy handed The Empire is. On Jeddha we see civilians being roughed up with impunity,
Who our cast actually are didn’t really matter that much, because the Situation is sold to us,
Both Rogue One and Solo are ultimately kind of disposable. Absolutely nobody needs to see them to understand what happens next. Whilst Solo is enjoyable enough, I do question the why of it. Rogue One though? I’d actively recommend.
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Don't get me wrong, Rogue One is probably my favourite Star War and the fact that everyone just dies at the end is brilliant. It's very much a movie where we actually see the power of the Empire in full swing.
It definitely helps to show just how critical the loss of the Death Star was, especially after Alderaan.
By that point, confident his power was absolute and his position inviolable, Palpatine dissolves the Senate, dropping all pretence at democracy. The Death Star was the reason why.
And by the time it’s destroyed over Yavin? The scales have fallen from many eyes. And the Empire has been shown to be fallible, standing up to them not pointless.
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Gert wrote: Don't get me wrong, Rogue One is probably my favourite Star War and the fact that everyone just dies at the end is brilliant. It's very much a movie where we actually see the power of the Empire in full swing.
Mine too, since Empire Strikes Back at least. One of its strength comes from being the only movie, along with Solo, in which the main characters are just regular guys. Skilled perhaps, but without superpowers, which is IMHO one of the main reasons why ep IV and V were so good (Leia, Chewbacca, Solo and the droids don't have superpowers, Luke doesn't have superpowers at first as well). Plus it's a standalone story with a definitive ending, which is another great feature. I personally dislike seeing the same characters over and over again. As protagonists I mean, they're great for cameos though. And Rogue One has lots of cameos.
I believe one reason Kenobi season 1 was so bad is that we're pretty bored with Obi Wan, Leia and Darth Vader at this point. And with jedi fighting a sith in a duel with force powers and lightsabers. All seen countless times. And the main reasons why the recent trilogy was bad is the lack of new material: Kylo Ren and Rei are just another versions of Vader and Luke, and there are still Chewbacca, Solo, Leia, Luke and the Emperor in main roles.
But the setting is great, so a story that doesn't involve the same old stuff and/or the same old characters might be good. Kenobi season 2 could be ok, as long the writers manage to find an interesting story that doesn't involve Luke, Vader, the jedi, etc...
Gert wrote: Don't get me wrong, Rogue One is probably my favourite Star War and the fact that everyone just dies at the end is brilliant. It's very much a movie where we actually see the power of the Empire in full swing.
I did delight in SW showing what happens when a guerrilla force meets the enemy in open battle. I suspect a reason why so many like Empire strikes back is the Empire is dangerous. Rather than meme troopers you see a competent military (well, not so much on the ground, but good enough considering it was mooks vs named characters) that will smash anything that stands up to it and using the tactics they are meant to (Tie swarms, heavy firepower, etc.).
It works the other way too, in demonstrating how hit and fade works against a juggernaut type force.
Scarrif was of course an ambitious target, especially with the shield preventing a rapid retreat. But when you see the panic on the Imperial side of “WTF?? They’re attacking us here??” I think it pays off.
The Hammerhead manoeuvre is an excellent example of unorthodox tactics making the most out of opportunity,
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I think the cast did really well with it as well. Ben Mendelsohn especially as an aristocratic Imperial officer concerned with his career was brilliant. Also:
In my opinion, Rogue One was, hands down, the best star wars film that Disney produced. Solo was a 3.4, not great, not terrible, but a bit too fan-servicey, and honestly, The force Awakens is also a 3.4, but for different reasons (nothing wrong with it per se, just nothing amazing either). The Rise of Skywalker is the worst flim of the whole saga, almost entirely because it doesn't even try to mesh with what was done with "the last Jedi" (which is 2nd worst, for the record, although i actually love the description of the force scene in it), and just hits the reset button to drag the story back to where it was "supposed to be going" so hard, its painful.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
