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Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






NJ, USA

Hello all,
The following is summary of a transaction between I and The Prince of Excess via DakkaDakka Swap Shop Forums (Original Sale Thread found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/316186.page). I will include all relevant information as needed.

PM Correspondence. (It is long, white text is The Prince of Excess)
Spoiler:
Date: 09/09/2010 07:09:25 PM
Subject: Stuff for sale...

I was wondering how much to purchase the whole lot?

Or just to get all the Chimeras, Whirlwind, and leman russ dems.

Thank you in advance sir.

Date: 09/10/2010 01:30:59 AM
Subject: Re:Stuff for sale...

The whole lot being the Orks and IG together I assume?


Date: 09/10/2010 03:28:46 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Yes Sir.

Date: 09/10/2010 03:31:41 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

$*** for everything including the cases. That's a little less than 1/3 retail, plus the cases for free. Sound reasonable?


Date: 09/10/2010 04:25:57 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Sounds pretty good sir. Do you happen to have photos? I am very interested, I just want to confirm everything you have listed if that is okay. Also I would like to pay via paypal is that is okay. Thank You.

Date: 09/10/2010 04:26:37 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Paypal is fine, I will try to take photos this weekend.


Date: 09/10/2010 04:29:00 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Okay sounds good, just a group shot is really all I need. When you get the photo just send your paypal email address with it, and I will have the money out to you ASAP. Thank you sir.

Date: 09/13/2010 12:50:12 AM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Hey sir,
I was just wondering if you had gotten any photos?

Date: 09/13/2010 10:48:53 AM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Nope, had a busy weekend but I'll do it today. :]


Date: 09/13/2010 05:25:47 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Shoot me your email address and I'll send the pictures.


Date: 09/13/2010 05:33:28 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

***@aol.com

Thanks.

Date: 09/13/2010 05:52:40 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Hey I got the pictures. No pictures of the Orks stuff?

Date: 09/13/2010 05:53:47 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

The Orks are in the foam, did you want to see anything close up?


Date: 09/13/2010 06:01:49 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

No that is fine.

So its:
IG
5 Chimeras
3 Vendettas (Converted)
2 Leman Russ Demolishers (Converted)
1 Whirlwind (Used as Artillery)

Orks
1 Black Reach Warboss
10+ Black Reach Nobs
100+ Black Reach Boyz (Converted to be Shoota or Slugga)
40 Grots (Converted)
1 Big Mek
1 Kommando
3+ Black Reach Deff Koptas
10+ Lootas (Converted)
15+ Burnas (Converted)

for
$*** paypaled sir?

Date: 09/13/2010 06:05:33 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Plus shipping, which I have to look into this week. But yes the quantity and everything is correct.


Date: 09/13/2010 06:11:51 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Okay sir, My zip code is *****. I am in NJ, so let me know the total with shipping including a tracking # and I will paypal you immediately.

Date: 09/13/2010 07:10:41 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Can you give me your full address please?


Date: 09/13/2010 07:33:39 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

***
***, NJ
*****

Date: 09/15/2010 05:17:07 AM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

I'm gonna go down to the Post Office today, had classes early in the week.


Date: 09/15/2010 05:15:19 AM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Hey sir, I was just wondering if you were able to get a shipping quote? Thank you.

Date: 09/15/2010 12:22:56 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

The mailing is going to be $40 according to their website, but I think it will be a little less because of the weight. If it's any less, I'll send the rest of the money back to you.

I'm going to try to get it out today if you still want it.


Date: 09/15/2010 12:33:52 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Okay, what is your paypal address sir?

Date: 09/15/2010 12:43:37 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

***@gmail.com


Date: 09/15/2010 01:03:23 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Okay, payment sent!

Please send tracking #. Please send via USPS if possible seeing how they are generally the cheapest. Thank You.

Date: 09/15/2010 01:31:37 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

I will run it over today and get you that information as soon as I have it.


Date: 09/15/2010 04:07:10 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Tracking number is ******************, let me know if that doesn't work. I threw in a bunch of bits and some extra models for free, mostly because I don't have any need for them.


Date: 09/16/2010 02:07:53 AM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stuff for sale...

Hey,
I checked the shipping, and it tells me I should be seeing the package next week. Also I checked the tracking number and it said it was around $25 to ship the package to me. Did you add the difference with the package? Or were you going to paypal the difference to me sir? Let me know. Thanks again.

Date: 09/22/2010 04:45:23 PM
Subject: Stuff for Sale

Okay, I got the package today. Firstly, one chimera is missing, you stated that you had 5 chimeras to send over, there are only four. Secondly, shipping should of been exactly $24.60, you charged me $40, also stating it was going out USPS, while it was sent UPS. On top of that, these valkyries are incomplete. They have no wings, as well as no bits whatsoever to complete them. I will have to order wings and the rest of the bits to even be able to use them. Please get back to me ASAP to sort this out before I am forced to make a post here as well as a complaint via Paypal. Thank You.

Date: 09/22/2010 05:44:58 PM
Subject: Re:Stuff for Sale

One of the Chimeras is converted from a Leman Russ, it has a Heavy Flamer and a Multi-Laser turret. I used it as a Command Chimera, because it looked different. The Vendettas bits are in the foam with them, they are attached with magnetic tape to the side. The third one doesn't have any tape because I ran out but there's bits in that bag I sent with the army, so I don't think you'll have to order anything, unless you want to make some changes yourself.


Date: 09/22/2010 06:12:49 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Stuff for Sale

No I will have to order things, there are absolutely no wings for any of the vendettas! You stated they were converted, but not that they did not include wings. Also you have not commented on the shipping. You over-charged me and as such you were going to give me the difference back. The package was $24.60 to ship, you charged me $40. Also, you did not state that the Leman Russ was proxied as a Chimera. Your description stated 5 Chimera, at no point did you state that one was a Leman Russ. I have done a price run and it will cost roughly $18 per Vendetta to replace the wings, and canopy. Please get back to me. I will be filing a transaction dispute here as well as with Paypal to recoup my funds.


Pictures of items received have been attached.

The Issues:
  • I never received the difference of shipping as agreed upon. When you calculate the shipping cost with the weight of the package (14.50lbs) the shipping from his zipcode to mine via UPS.com is $24.60..

  • There are only four chimeras, all of which are incomplete to some degree. His original sale thread stated 5, and he never denied that statement or informed me of the difference until AFTER the transaction was completed.

  • The Vendettas are incomplete as seen in the photos, there are no parts for wings, tail, or canopy. I have priced the bits seperately and have gotten a number of $18 per vendetta to fix.


  • I am currently at a bit of a loss on how to proceed, I will be filing a dispute with Paypal, but will that do anything?

    Thank You for your time.

    Update (9/22/10 - 9:00 PM EST)
    I have filed the Paypal dispute. In it I have asked for a refund of $69.40 which is to cover the bits for the incomplete Vendettas as well as the difference for the shipping.

    Update (10/11/10)
    With Paypal Inc. unable to help, I filed a Credit Card Chargeback. The Credit Card company will look into the transaction and let me know their findings. All facts have been submitted as requested.

    Update (10/25/10)
    At request of Credit Card Company, items in question were sent back to Paypal Inc.

    Update (1/31/11)
    Credit Card Company has credited my account for the amount in question. Transaction has been resolved without help of The Prince of Excess; whom has not contacted me since Sept. 22nd of 2010.

    Thank You, I hope others find any of this information useful.

    Feel free to PM me for any advice/information into the process of working out a faulty transaction.

    This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2011/02/01 02:15:21


    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in us
    Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





    Pat that askala, O-H-I hate this stupid state

    Well you started off right by filing the dispute. If it does go through then you will have to send the models back. If not then it looks as though you have alot of fixing to do. Thanks for the heads up.

    Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, its just a freight train coming your way!
    Thousand Sons 10000
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    Made in au
    Dakka Veteran




    Brisbane, OZ

    Did he say "you get what you see"?

    Because if he posted pictures, you knew what you were getting (playing devil's advocate here). The shipping could be an issue with the postage materials he needed or something similar, so I can't comment until he replies.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/23 03:22:05


    Son can you play me a memory? I'm not really sure how it goes... 
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    Ordo Dakka wrote:Did he say "you get what you see"?

    Because if he posted pictures, you knew what you were getting (playing devil's advocate here). The shipping could be an issue with the postage materials he needed or something similar, so I can't comment until he replies.


    I received four photos, only one of which showed a vendetta without wings. But he said he did not have the wings on it at the time of the photo, something about ease of storage I believe. He never mentioned any further about the wings not being included, nor them being incomplete technically. Also, I saved the shipping contents, the box was a used Staples cardboard box (22"X14"x16"), and the packaging materials was a shopping catalog & local newspaper.

    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in au
    Dakka Veteran




    Brisbane, OZ

    If he said the wings were just not attached then you definitely have grounds to send them back.

    Son can you play me a memory? I'm not really sure how it goes... 
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    Okay, I believe I will be filing a Paypal claim as of tomorrow. As The Prince of Excess has yet to respond to either Email, PM, or post on this thread. Although he has still been quite active on here as well as Librarium Online. Thank You all for your time.

    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    Paypal's resolution of the situation was that I was not entitled to anything. They stated that as long as the item was shipped it does not violate their policies. With that being said, I will be blocking the money (paid via credit card). I do encourage any other that are reading this to throughly understand that Paypal will not help you in a situation, and neither will DakkaDakka Moderators.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/27 04:29:34


    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in au
    Dakka Veteran




    Brisbane, OZ

    I just received a full refund from PayPal on an item damaged claim, they help, providing you fall within their extremely small area of jurisdiction. PayPal can't really go around taking money from people willy nilly without getting shut down by a legitimate authority, that's why they are so strict and useless.

    That said, this is a crappy situation and the mods on Dakka really should attempt something here.

    Son can you play me a memory? I'm not really sure how it goes... 
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    Ordo Dakka wrote:I just received a full refund from PayPal on an item damaged claim, they help, providing you fall within their extremely small area of jurisdiction. PayPal can't really go around taking money from people willy nilly without getting shut down by a legitimate authority, that's why they are so strict and useless.

    That said, this is a crappy situation and the mods on Dakka really should attempt something here.


    Was this item bought off of Ebay?

    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in us
    Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine





    California

    Being bought off ebay is the way to go, as there is legitimate proof and history, as well as the ebay purchase protection. I post everything I sell on ebay, then put the links in the forumn, just so that people won't be nervous about a purchase. I guess for the future just make sure you buy stuff from ebay rather than directly on dakkadakka: don't want to shoot you down as this is a very crappy situation, but the moderators of dakkadakka do say that this is not a trading website and to trade at your own risk, and that they cannot do anything if you do get ripped off.


    Legally, you do have grounds to get your money back and ship back the army, however, you will need to print and save documents online that had this user stating exactly what was being traded, then provide proof that what you recieved was not what was agreed upon. I have some legal knowledge about steps to take to get your money, so if you want to proceed with filing another compaint with paypal or ebay, send me a pm.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/27 08:17:38


     
       
    Made in us
    [MOD]
    Dankhold Troggoth






    Shadeglass Maze

    The above posters are correct- while we try to help as much as we can, the swap shop is an "at your own risk" area, much like posting an item on craigslist.

    That said, I've been watching this thread and was hoping that paypal would resolve the dispute. In the end, it looks like you're missing $70, which isn't too bad... I've been taken for more, unfortunately!

    I'm suprised that the other user hasn't responded, since it doesn't look like he was trying to scam you, as he made good on sending the items...

    Keep us updated on how the credit card payment blocking process works.
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    RiTides wrote:The above posters are correct- while we try to help as much as we can, the swap shop is an "at your own risk" area, much like posting an item on craigslist.

    That said, I've been watching this thread and was hoping that paypal would resolve the dispute. In the end, it looks like you're missing $70, which isn't too bad... I've been taken for more, unfortunately!

    I'm suprised that the other user hasn't responded, since it doesn't look like he was trying to scam you, as he made good on sending the items...

    Keep us updated on how the credit card payment blocking process works.


    Thank you, my previous post in regards to Dakka-Dakka mods was in no way an insult. I am fully aware of the policy and was only re-iterating it in literal terms for anyone reading this post.

    I will be PMing Holy Blessed Homicide in regards on what to do next. I want to avoid puting a hold on the credit card payment due to a lashback from Paypal, and the possiblity of a $2,500 fine as per the User Agreement. I have also thought about placing a call to the Paypal account owner, a person whom I believe to be The Prince of Excess's mother? grandmother? Possibly an adult conversation can avoid any further issues, but we shall see.

    On a side note though, I found out that if you send money for items other than Ebay, the seller has to send the package with signature confirmation in order to be protected by Paypal. An example is if I were to report the item not delivered, even though tracking information is evident. Paypal requires sellers with items over $100 to obtain signature delivery confirmation in order to be protected by Paypal. Just FYI for those others on Paypal.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/27 21:34:11


    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    Update

    I filed a chargeback (reverse transaction) with my credit card company. They are sending the dispute forms out, and as of right now, the whole transaction is being disputed, thus The Prince of Excess will have the money put on hold as of right now. I still have had no communication with the other user, he has yet to contact me. It also turns out the phone number I had for his home address was disconnected. Anyway, I have found out that using your Credit Card via Paypal for transactions out of Ebay.com is the way to go. So far the process has been very simple and my credit card company has already said that I should expect not to pay the transaction. I hope this gives some hope to others who have been scammed/ripped off in the past. Thanks again gents.

    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in us
    Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine





    California

    Are you trying to get your money back or just the amount equal to the cost of the bits? And if you do get your money back, are you then going to ship the minis back?


    Seems wierd to me that the Prince of Excess would go through all this trouble, in his position I would just give the money back and preserve my online trading reputation. Pretty dumb on his part imo, and disconnecting the lan line doesnt make him look any less guilty...

     
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    Holy Blessed Homicide wrote:Are you trying to get your money back or just the amount equal to the cost of the bits? And if you do get your money back, are you then going to ship the minis back?


    Seems wierd to me that the Prince of Excess would go through all this trouble, in his position I would just give the money back and preserve my online trading reputation. Pretty dumb on his part imo, and disconnecting the lan line doesnt make him look any less guilty...


    Yeah, I am going to see what I can do with my Credit Card company first. If I can just get the difference back, then I will be content. If they fully refund my money, I am going to see if I can somehow get reimbursed for the return shipping. But we shall see, if I am fully reimbursed, I don't want to be a dick and not ship the items back. No reason to continue the fraud.

    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in us
    Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine





    California

    Yeah exactly what I was thinking its best to still do everything properly on your end

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/10/01 04:57:40


     
       
    Made in us
    Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






    NJ, USA

    Okay, I just wanted to update the status of the credit card company resolution.

    So my credit card company had me mail all the items in question back to Paypal Inc back around the end of October. Since then, my credit card company credited my account for the amount until a final decision was made.

    As of today, I was refunded my full money, and the transaction has been resolved. So, although it took a while, I got all my money back thanks to no help from Paypal Inc.

    The bottomline is, if you do ANY buying via the internet, please use a CREDIT CARD! This is the proper & safe way to do business in order to avoid being completely scammed. Paypal Inc. will not help with any transactions outside of Ebay.com, thus it is up to the user to find some other form of protection. My credit card company was very responsible and useful, excluding the amount of time to come to a final decision. I hope this has helped anyone else in the same situation.

    Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or need any help.

    Credit Card Services FTW!

    Thank you.

    An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

    Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

    One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
       
    Made in us
    [SWAP SHOP MOD]
    Barpharanges






    Limbo

    Glad to hear you received your refund, though it's unfortunate that paypal was so unhelpful.

    Since things seem resolved, I think I'll lock this TR up. Please feel free to PM me if anything pops up again regarding this Transaction Report and I can potentially open this back up in the future.

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