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Here is what I brought to Da Grand Waaagh! GT along with some paint scores.

This is appearantly not a display board even if my friend can pour kitty litter in a picture frame and get a point...





You can buy prebased models from GW with skulls and barrels. I didnt get points because I didnt add those things on myself...






I guess green stuff and guitar wire dont count as extra convirsions. Those were totally the metal oblitorators you saw above.

Your army looks really nice to me dude. I wouldn't take the biased scoring personally...

Or, instead of making a thread on dakka, you could contact the TO and let him know directly. Does nothing to improve the event to bash it after the fact online.

kartofelkopf wrote:Or, instead of making a thread on dakka, you could contact the TO and let him know directly. Does nothing to improve the event to bash it after the fact online.

I was about to, but I have come to realize nothing would come of it. The results are already known and it seems like the who people went already discredited it as a legit tournament...

Honestly I think part of the reason for the low scoring is that you have Nurgle. Everyone 'converts' nurgle and the results are often very similar. You definitely got robbed, but it is what it is...

(As an aside, that is a GORGEOUS force. Shame on the judge for poor taste)

I know the feeling man I have been blood sweat and tears into armies (literally knife cuts and plastic to the eyes hurt) and get gipped on points its rly gay but what can you do sept get pissed and yell?

I paid good money for that kitty litter you bastard!

Sure, maybe you're better at painting than me.

Maybe you're better at converting.

Maybe you taught me what little I know.

But did you have to put up with cats peeing in your shoes because their cat box was empty?

Did your girlfriend ask you awkward questions like, "Why isn't that picture of us in its frame?"

Where's the dedication, man? Where's the soul?

That is some bs, man.

That army is incredible, shame on the judges for doing you so dirty.

Shame!

Lesson I learned:
When the Painting Judge comes by, be there. Point out the extra details. Show them the especially nice/difficult conversions. point out the subtle highlites and lowlites of your painting. What theme you were looking for when you built the display board. The extra bits of basing so well done they look cast onto the base. Verify the score checklist and ask what could have been done better.
Give them a reason to give you the extra points and be enthusiastic.
Give them that "Yeah, I'm a good player, but I also take pride in the Hobby side too."
Make it hard for them to ding you because they already know that you know what your minimum score should be.
(EDIT) And if they do ding you after the fact you have more than legitimate reasons to call Shenanigans on the TO and or Staff.

Aside from politely querying it with the TO you can't let it get to you.

I've won demons in 40k squad but never managed to place first in appearance when I was attending a GT/Conflict every year.

Worst was when they announced my name as first in appearance, and then once I walked up there they said "whoops, sorry, you were actually third...".

Anyway, I totally understand that this isn't even a case of subjective judging as you're clearly within various scoring categories. TOs and paint judges tend to be quite touchy so you need to go to them with questions rather than demands. Even now an e-mail with questions "for future reference" should be taken well by anyone that isn't incredibly defensive about their event.

Ya know what really sucks about this.....The guy that won best painted and players choice didnt even paint his own army. The Salamander army that won both catagories was painted by Blue Table Painting.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=3600

Just sucks that hard work and effort gets ya nothing.

Please note , the judges probably dont have ANY knowledge about the models itself.
The subtle and natural looking conversions ( while very good ) the judge might assume thats how it originally looks.

Its too bad :'<

Hmm, yeah... wow, you got screwed. But, if it was already discredited as a legit tournament, then what's the sweat, eh?

Dude, you got hosed!

Your army is awesome!

Ach, yet another failure in subjective scoring. At the SoCal slaughter events, they ASK you if there are any conversions, special additions, etc to your models. That is so much better.

LazyDoug wrote:Ya know what really sucks about this.....The guy that won best painted and players choice didnt even paint his own army. The Salamander army that won both catagories was painted by Blue Table Painting.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=3600

Just sucks that hard work and effort gets ya nothing.

Oh, wow, that's pretty lame.

But at the same time, you can't blame the judges for that one though. No way of knowing who did what. And at the end of the day, the guy did pay for it.

I actually voted for that army for player's choice. But I knew it wasn't best painted there (it REALLY wasn't, there were some paint schemes that involved a lot more skill) but the conversions were cool and Salamanders are my favorite space marine chapter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reecius wrote:Dude, you got hosed!

Your army is awesome!

Ach, yet another failure in subjective scoring. At the SoCal slaughter events, they ASK you if there are any conversions, special additions, etc to your models. That is so much better.

Actually, the sad part was that they weren't subjective scores...

I mean, either the display board is there...or it isn't.

Unless you want to start some sort of philosophical debate about the display board only existing if there is something there to witness its existence. You know, if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound? If a display board is brought to a GT and its owner is at lunch, does it get a score? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

whocares wrote:

LazyDoug wrote:Ya know what really sucks about this.....The guy that won best painted and players choice didnt even paint his own army. The Salamander army that won both catagories was painted by Blue Table Painting.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=3600

Just sucks that hard work and effort gets ya nothing.

Oh, wow, that's pretty lame.

But at the same time, you can't blame the judges for that one though. No way of knowing who did what. And at the end of the day, the guy did pay for it.

I actually voted for that army for player's choice. But I knew it wasn't best painted there (it REALLY wasn't, there were some paint schemes that involved a lot more skill) but the conversions were cool and Salamanders are my favorite space marine chapter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reecius wrote:Dude, you got hosed!

Your army is awesome!

Ach, yet another failure in subjective scoring. At the SoCal slaughter events, they ASK you if there are any conversions, special additions, etc to your models. That is so much better.

Actually, the sad part was that they weren't subjective scores...

I mean, either the display board is there...or it isn't.

Unless you want to start some sort of philosophical debate about the display board only existing if there is something there to witness its existence. You know, if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound? If a display board is brought to a GT and its owner is at lunch, does it get a score? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

LOL. The board must have just blended in with the army to well.

Oh god this only gets worse...

That guy that had the vulcan army said nothing! So many people went up to him and talked about just how great it was.

To think that is the tip of the iceberg...

www.bloodofkittens.com

Not normally a fan of Nurgle... or chaos in general. I really enjoyed you models though.

Forget those loosers!!!

FTL

Tasty, this is exactly what I was talking to you about at the tourney. Painting scores should not factor into best overall unless you can verify the person painted their own army. Since there is no way to verify who painted an army people can just buy an advantage.

same thing happened to me at a tourny a few weeks ago...

I think.... i''ve seen you play before!

I think perhaps it would be a good idea for modelling and painting comps to include a description, no more than 500 words or some photos and descriptive writing underneath, to detail the labour and effort that went into conversions and army detail.

Your display base is not hugely complicated (1 picture frame with grit), your basing also (1 space marine helm, 1 half barrel etc), however your conversions themselves are very good, especially the daemon prince.

I'd say you were victim of:
limited time to judge.
Nugle colourscheme not 'eyecatching' enough in that limited time.
judge not spending due attention to small detailed conversions or not being familiar with the range.

I'd raise it with the organisers, without raging, that they need to review this for next time.

Generally speaking the judges I have often seen at events are not 'professional' judges. This means that if someone has something 'more sophisticated' they may dock you points even if you met the minimum criteria.

Also, you can take this two ways....

1 - You got screwed by the judges
2 - You got the score you deserved given your presentation of the army to the judge.

The latter is more productive and provides an opportunity to learn. There is no doubt your army looks great and those little things you pointed out on the forum are things to work into a conversation while the judge is scoring you.

Even starting with - Hello, can I tell you about my army gives you the chance to walk through the entire thing with the judge so he/she can understand better.

I agree with MGS, you should at least write the TO and tell them your story. Again, dont be a jerk about it, but maybe next time that wont happen. You did get hoed pretty good. And I dont know if the winner WORKS for the studio, but if not ya thats really lame. Those contests are not about who has the most money to buy the best pro painter, its about the PERSONS ability. That sucks, but you cant do anything other then write them and explain what happened, and even show that link of the winners army being painted by a pro, not the player.

I do also agree though, that Nurgle armies are a dime a dozen. Everyone plays them, and everyone converts them. So I wouldnt expect you to of won, but at least get better points. Not getting anything for the board.......Ive seen some really detailed boards, and yours really was dirt in a frame, I mean really, how mad can you get at that? I bet it took you 10 minutes to make it.

calypso2ts wrote:Generally speaking the judges I have often seen at events are not 'professional' judges. This means that if someone has something 'more sophisticated' they may dock you points even if you met the minimum criteria.

Also, you can take this two ways....

1 - You got screwed by the judges
2 - You got the score you deserved given your presentation of the army to the judge.

The latter is more productive and provides an opportunity to learn. There is no doubt your army looks great and those little things you pointed out on the forum are things to work into a conversation while the judge is scoring you.

Even starting with - Hello, can I tell you about my army gives you the chance to walk through the entire thing with the judge so he/she can understand better.

Full disclosure here, I play with the OP on a regular basis so I am biased.

It is nuts to suggest what happened was anything other then he got screwed.

How can you suggest he deserved the score he got? He had a board and didn't get points for it. There is no way to screw up the presentation of the board, it's either there or not. Bottom line is the Judges screwed up.

How is the fact that it's a Nurgle army a justification for getting boned on painting scores?

Someone making decisions like that shouldn't be judging a painting competition in the first place.

Sucks that your scores were so low man, I'm quite lucky in that where I live a lot of people aren't great at/aren't willing to paint their armies. I personally think that anyone showing up to a tournament without 3 colours + basing as a MINIMUM shouldn't be allowed to play; include it in your tournament T&Cs or something.

Take nothing away from your army, it looks fantastic! I'm just pleased to see that there are competitive players out there that do still take pleasure in fielding a fully painted force.

Kudos to you, and a pox on the judge in question!

L. Wrex

spireland wrote:
It is nuts to suggest what happened was anything other then he got screwed.

The judge may have made mistakes, but at the end of the day the OP has two options. He can go on the relative anonymity of the internet and complain, or he can examine how HE presented his army to the judges and try to determine the best way to show off his hard work.

The responsibility is HIS to show his army off and demonstrate how it meets the criteria laid out. I have seen it happen far too often (I teach at a university) where the same person gets 'screwed' over and over again, and they never realize it is they who are the least common denominator. It may be clear to the OP what he did. It wasn't to the judges or he would have received points in those categories.

If I leave an open soda can next to my minis and someone knocks it over they screwed up, but I am the one who set myself up to be a victim and I have to live with the consequences.

So use it as a learning experience or go post your army online and try to attain some sense of self satisfaction while a bunch of strangers tell you how bad you have it and how wonderful your work was. (it IS a really well done army, your scores definitely do not accurately reflect that)

calypso2ts wrote:

spireland wrote:
It is nuts to suggest what happened was anything other then he got screwed.

The judge may have made mistakes, but at the end of the day the OP has two options. He can go on the relative anonymity of the internet and complain, or he can examine how HE presented his army to the judges and try to determine the best way to show off his hard work.

The responsibility is HIS to show his army off and demonstrate how it meets the criteria laid out. I have seen it happen far too often (I teach at a university) where the same person gets 'screwed' over and over again, and they never realize it is they who are the least common denominator. It may be clear to the OP what he did. It wasn't to the judges or he would have received points in those categories.

If I leave an open soda can next to my minis and someone knocks it over they screwed up, but I am the one who set myself up to be a victim and I have to live with the consequences.

So use it as a learning experience or go post your army online and try to attain some sense of self satisfaction while a bunch of strangers tell you how bad you have it and how wonderful your work was. (it IS a really well done army, your scores definitely do not accurately reflect that)

This made me LOL. Ya it was HIS responsibility to demonstrate his army to the judges... HA not. Its the judges responsibility to actually look at all the damn model closely. If their going to make paint scores worth so much why rush it? Also how does them somehow not seeing his display board, and the added basing bitz end up being his fauilt??

Ps. They did scoring during lunch which was 45 mins. So no one was by there armies.

--Also I see people trying to say he was trying to win best painting. However no where in this thread does he say that. He's just talking about his scores.