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Now that the Dark Eldar are a reality, and people are poking at the question, I prefer to make it a separate thread for people to review & discuss, without polluting the DE Rules / Models / other threads. Those who care can discuss it here, without bothering others.

1. Oct. 11th 2008, Yakface throws down the gauntlet:

yakface wrote:If anyone would like to wager any amount of money that the DE codex won't be released in the next two years I will take that bet. Name your price. Any amount.

Seriously, can we stop with the 'DE will never be released' crap?

Phil Kelly is writing the codex and Jes Goodwin is sculpting an entirely new line of models. Both have confirmed this fact at the last LAGD.

The DE artwork found in the new rulebook clearly shows that redesign efforts have gone into the DE line. . .they don't just let artists come in and create a new looking Raider and DE warrior design willy-nilly.

Exactly when the project will be released is a mystery because GW doesn't talk about projects beyond 3 months anymore for the most part, but the fact remains that the project is fully underway.

2. JohnHwangDD picks up the Gauntlet for one ($1) dollar

JohnHwangDD wrote:OK, I'll step up for a gentleman's wager in the amount of ONE AMERICAN DOLLAR. I propose a schedule of payments as follows:
- If DE get a new Codex authored by Phil Kelly and supporting minis by Jes Goodwin within 2 years of the last LAGD, I will pay you $1 (one) dollar.
- If DE don't get any Codex before October 10, 2010 (10/10/10), you pay me $1 (one) dollar.
- Otherwise, if DE get a Codex authored by someone other than Phil Kelly or if the supporting minis are sculpted by someone other than Jes Goodwin, or the DE release more than 2 years after the last LAGD but before October 10, 2010 (10/10/10), the bet is a push.

As far as I'm concerned the DE artwork in the current 5th Edition rulebook carries no more weight than the pictures of the Hrud and Donorian Fiend in the 3rd Edition rulebook.

I think it's a mystery because GW isn't really working on anything, so they're just blowing smoke. Again. I mean, it's great that you have faith in GW, but what makes you think that *this* time, things are going to be different?

3. Yakface accepts

yakface wrote:Deal. But if you're so sure why not make it $20, $50, $100 or even more?

Name the price and I'm good for it.

As there's room for disagreement on who won, depending on how people understand or define things, I'll post a poll on it and let it run.

Or course, if you're going to vote, you might want to give some rationale behind your vote - it's not a popularity contest, after all...

Well as there not going to be released before the 11/10/10 (that's how you write dates ! Lol ) I think its a lose for him as he did chose the dates . expecting a gamesday release ? . But it is very close and as a gentleman I would call it a draw. But maybe some kind of phyric prize how about you both paint up a new D.E figure and then exchange them as a memento ?

Should have said 'release', John.
Getting a codex could be this 'sneak peek' in a GW store too.

So official release ( ie 6th november as per GW ) clearly is past 10/10/10.
Confirmation of a codex by P.Kelly is before 10/10/10 ( ie 5th october pre-order ).

What was date of the LAGD mentioned?

I'd say Yakface very much won if you go by the spirit of the bet. However by Rule as written it all depends on that date.


Dark Eldar have "got" (I don't have it, you don't have it, but it exists) a codex, written by Phil Kelly, with miniatures by Jez Goodwin, and it's not yet 10/10/10. So the date of the LAGT determines if Yakface wins or it's a push

EDIT - A bit of research tells me the LAGD was in August. I'm calling this one a tie.

CURNOW wrote:Well as there not going to be released before the 11/10/10 (that's how you write dates ! Lol ) I think its a lose for him as he did chose the dates . expecting a gamesday release ? . But it is very close and as a gentleman I would call it a draw. But maybe some kind of phyric prize how about you both paint up a new D.E figure and then exchange them as a memento ?

Most definitely agree with this, especially the memento, tis a remarkable occasion

Yakface won in spirit.

I'll make a new bet that GW read that post and planned the DE update timing just to screw with the terms and conditions of it...they can't resist creating RAW vs RAI debates.

Since the Codex is not publically released until 6th November then you win the part of the bet regarding the release date.

However since the DE codex was written by Phil Kelly, the majority of the minatures were sculpted by Jes Goodwin and the Codex was announced before 10/10/10 Yackface wins.

You give him $1 and he gives you $1. So that cancels out the bet.

So maybe take CURNOW's idea and call it even.

Minutiae irrelevant.


Yak said 2 years, in the latter part of 08, he was correct.

You have maintained a stance that there would be no Dark Eldar for years, that they had gone the way of the squat. You've weighed in on every thread about dark eldar, certainly since I've been here, to throw water on it.

Wrangling over a few days is pointless and not in the spirit of the wager.They certainly got their codex prior to the 10/10/10 date...

You were wrong. Concede with candour.

I say push.

While DE finally had the codex announced, it has yet to be released. Any sorry MeanGreen, it's the 6th of November.

I mean, yeah, you were both right.

I will hold the Codex and several miniatures sculpted by Jes in my hands before 10th of October, so I "got" them before that date, as many others will as well. Even more will have paid them on preorder.

But a very few models were not sculpted by Jes himself, he only did the concept sketch or prototype for those. And the official release is about three weeks after said date.

So in my opinion Yakface has won this daring bet, but he is free to call it a push based on the above facts.

Suck it up and deal with it like a honourable gent. That's the least you can do after all the crap you gave the DE threads over time.

JohnHwangDD wrote:OK, I'll step up for a gentleman's wager in the amount of ONE AMERICAN DOLLAR. I propose a schedule of payments as follows:
- If DE get a new Codex authored by Phil Kelly and supporting minis by Jes Goodwin within 2 years of the last LAGD, I will pay you $1 (one) dollar.
- If DE don't get any Codex before October 10, 2010 (10/10/10), you pay me $1 (one) dollar.
- Otherwise, if DE get a Codex authored by someone other than Phil Kelly or if the supporting minis are sculpted by someone other than Jes Goodwin, or the DE release more than 2 years after the last LAGD but before October 10, 2010 (10/10/10), the bet is a push.

As far as I'm concerned the DE artwork in the current 5th Edition rulebook carries no more weight than the pictures of the Hrud and Donorian Fiend in the 3rd Edition rulebook.

I think it's a mystery because GW isn't really working on anything, so they're just blowing smoke. Again. I mean, it's great that you have faith in GW, but what makes you think that *this* time, things are going to be different?

Yakface is correct as to what happened, he was, sadly, incorrect as to when (not by much, but incorrect nonetheless). Yak was not within his 2 years of LAGD to "win" his part, even if we count announcing as fulfilling its since it is well past those two years. The wording of the bet did not have an out for what actually happed for Yak. Next time, Yakface needs to word his bets better when he knows he should win ("about two years, give or take, because of scheduling quirks" for example). DE did not get their codex/minis in time for John to "lose" nor to "push". The codex will be released after the specified date, so John "wins" his side of the bet.

I repeat Yakface was CORRECT, we got DE as he foretold, sadly, he "guessed" wrong as to exactly when by just a tad. Most bets are won or lost by tads and wording.

Win for JHDD. Don't spend it all at once JH. Maybe you should make it an accumulator with Dogs of War.

Interesting commentary so far.

George Spiggott wrote:Win for JHDD. Don't spend it all at once JH. Maybe you should make it an accumulator with Dogs of War.

Presuming that the wager actually turns out to be a "win", sadly, no, an extra dollar is a pittance to what I've sunk into my Dogs of War over the years since 5E. I've finished working my way through the 5 stages and have accepted that my DoW are well and truly dead for all intents and purposes. Over the coming months, I'll be moving my DoW over to Empire, flushing out the planned conversions, and storing any Dogs of War-specific models as potential "Allies". If, by some divine miracle, DoW arise in third year hence as an actual, playable again, I'll reconsider.

George Spiggott wrote: Maybe you should make it an accumulator with Dogs of War.

I say that Yakface wins, but in the honourableness of you both being gentlemen, due to the date of release being wrong (although the pre-order and the black box is out) then no money changes hands.

Each paint up an Archon in each other's image to use in your Dark Eldar armies . . . as we know that everyone must get the models . . . they're just so nice . . . =p

Oshova

Who won?

The real winners are the Dark Eldar players, who after years of being trolled, baited and talked down to by John-boy finally have their Codex.

Wait... so do we know who wrote the 'dex? I'll assume Phil Kelly, but I'm not sure...

JHDD - You WIN based purely upon your avatar pic, mate!

Seriously, if you wanna take it down to the nuts and bolts, Yak wins because DE 'have' a codex... it just has not been 'released'.

Im guessing, if Yak wants to play in the 'spirit' of the bet he will pay up, as they do not 'have' it yet. It is not in the mainstream.

The Dark Eldar have a codex. I read it last week.

Yakface wins.

Yeah, for everyone who has flipped through the DE Codex it is hard to pretend that DE haven't got one

Both of you give $1 to some guy that's out on the street. He needs it more.

Then you can get back to barking about dumb stuff on the internet.

As I understood the challenge, Yakface meant that the DE would have a Codex & minis "released" for sale, not simply that something would be written or sculpted.

My personal take is that Yakface wins in the Spirit of the challenge, in that DE were getting a new Codex & minis (eventually), whereas I win under the Wording of the challenge (actual release > 10/10/10, some minis not by Jes).

My biggest surprises are that:
1. The bet itself is as close as it is. I can't possibly imagine that a multi-million-dollar pound company like GW would look at a two-year dollar bet as some kind "viral marketing" tool for sales advantage.

2. That the bet actually went the full 2 years for a decision. When I accepted 2 years ago, I honestly expected that I'd pay up within the first 6 months because Jon had super-secret insider knowledge, and was just hedging things.

I suspect that Jon was (and still is) bound by NDA, and we won't hear the full story until November, when the DE formally release for public sale. I think it would make a fascinating epilogue to close the story.


Also, I wholeheartedly apologize for the stridency of my remarks back then. I can't take back anything of what I said, it's all ancient history at this point, and mooted by current events, anyways. I think it's great for the DE players that DE actually did get theirs - personally, I'm too much of a rationalist to t operate under the same kind of blind faith.

Peace,

/John

H.B.M.C. wrote:Who won?

The real winners are the Dark Eldar players, who after years of being trolled, baited and talked down to by John-boy finally have their Codex.

Wait, can I change my vote to this?!

It's very close on the actual official release date. I would say John would win the bet in a court of law though yakface won by the spirit of the bet.

Yakface narrowly the winner on this, but JHDD does have the best avatar on Dakka.

Incidentally, John, I specifically started an entire thread about avatars in the hope that you'd enlighten us, so come on, what's the scoop?

I voted that I lost the bet...

But oh so close.


However, the point of the bet (for me) wasn't to win money or to 'be right' but rather to emphasize the point that I knew without a shadow of a doubt that Dark Eldar were not being 'squatted' but rather that real work was being done on the project.

Yes, I did have some inside information (if you want to call it that), but my point was also that Games Workshop had publicly disclosed exactly who was working on the project (Jes sculpting and Phil writing the codex).

Obviously what was surprising to me was how long it took for the information that I saw over 2 years ago to actually translate into a GW release. The length of time it takes GW to create a complete line of miniatures can obviously be very, very lengthy...even longer than I considered possible. Based on what I saw, I thought they'd be out easily within a 2 year time period and clearly I was mistaken in that regard.


However, even though I lost the bet, the point of my participating in that bet was to hopefully convince some people that DE were indeed on their way, and I do think that I succeeded in that fact, so I don't really regret losing at all.


So when do we meet up to exchange the ceremonial dollar? Or would you just like the (roughly) 80 cents you'll get once paypal takes their chunk if we do it through paypal?


Anyway, congrats on the win.

Honestly. It was a dollar. I know money is tight for a lot of people right now, but seriously, be a gent about it, have some honor, some dignity, and some taste, and concede.

I say john won. They technically haven't being released for purchase yet. You can preorder them yes but thats not the same thing. Yak lost but it was so close.