Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Wow, those are some seriously bad miniatures. Really awful sculpts and badly done paint job...
I hope they are not still claiming that "best fantasy miniatures in the world" thing
Its freaking me out every time I hit the front page of the GW website. Its pretty wonderful for a week long stint of 'you don't want to buy our garbage'
Wow, those are some seriously bad miniatures. Really awful sculpts and badly done paint job...
I hope they are not still claiming that "best fantasy miniatures in the world" thing
Its freaking me out every time I hit the front page of the GW website. Its pretty wonderful for a week long stint of 'you don't want to buy our garbage'
When I see that mini I feel like GW is taunting "buy it, if you dare".
2018/02/19 22:46:23
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Honestly, I can't believe they didn't have the eavy metal team take a crack at painting them up to modern standards... these are by far the worst presented minis I have ever seen from GW. The pumbagore looks like Michelangelo's David next to these things... rough stuff lol...
I'll hold off for the inevitable re-sculpts thanks very much!
Yes, that would probably the best solution, GW/FW having a select few (under NDA) proofreading the Gang War books.
This (having different stats/costs in Rulebook, pre-printed cards, Legacy PDF x 2, GW1 and GW2 - and soon GW3) is spiralling way out of control.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I really like the Kal Jericho miniature.
It has been the base model of many of my Inq28 conversions, such as these three (incl. a Goliath for scale):
Will probably buy it and Mad Donna, despite the hideous paint job.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 23:48:25
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice.
Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/02/20 00:23:14
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2018/02/20 01:04:58
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
MajorTom11 wrote: Honestly, I can't believe they didn't have the eavy metal team take a crack at painting them up to modern standards... these are by far the worst presented minis I have ever seen from GW. The pumbagore looks like Michelangelo's David next to these things... rough stuff lol...
While Kal and Scabbs are... uhm... okayish, Mad Donna's paint job is abysmal, even for Fanatic standards. The miniature is quite nice, but you can ruin everything with this kind of treatment.
2018/02/20 03:01:10
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice. Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
Couldn't agree more. I still don't understand how GW thought that releasing the game with only 2 factions was a good idea. Talk about a momentum killer. At the strict minimum, they should have had 4 gangs available. What's done done, and there's no point on crying over spilled milk, but I'm still pissed with that decision.
Thankfullly, they seems to have long term plans for necro, so that botched release won't affect its viability
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/20 04:34:00
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2018/02/20 04:51:37
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
I'm enjoying the slow rollout. If it gave them design time to create
sector mechanicus then it's great because all of the kits are thoughtfully
created and rather than just putting out whatever at a rapid fire pace
there seems to be serious intent in creating kits that can get strong
variety without much modding.
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
2018/02/20 07:46:51
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
My annoyance is more with the lack of editing and cohesion in the rulebooks thus far released coupled with the lack of FAQs to sort out issues like Toxin.
The Gang War books look nice - the art work is really lovely, but the content is average-weak and not properly proof read or even matching other publications. Missing rules, weapon profiles not matching even in the same book - GW2 alone has two different stat lines for Chainswords.
Sad really as the fluff writing is really interesting and putting lots of meat on the bones.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
You haven't read the books? They're a complete mess, GW2 continues this tradition.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr Morden wrote: My annoyance is more with the lack of editing and cohesion in the rulebooks thus far released coupled with the lack of FAQs to sort out issues like Toxin.
The Gang War books look nice - the art work is really lovely, but the content is average-weak and not properly proof read or even matching other publications. Missing rules, weapon profiles not matching even in the same book - GW2 alone has two different stat lines for Chainswords.
.
Yes, also two different stat lines for Stub Gun.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/20 11:39:02
2018/02/20 12:04:23
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Grot 6 wrote: Her name is Bonnie Annerson, they did this model as a nod to the old school movie Barb Wire, with a well endowed unnamed Bounty Hunter with a first name of Pamela, and the second name of Anderson. It's that little thing about the hotshot sniper lasgun and hellfire pistol ( when no one else had one.)
Other than any other model who attached a hotshot pack to a laspistol.
A real serious question, though- WHY are there such crappy paint jobs on those old models, when in the Outrider book, and in the Necromunda Magazine, there were some top drawer paint jobs on both Kal Jericho, and on Mad Donna. THESE photos that are shown, if someone from GW is posting those, they need to be straight up fired. THOSE paint jobs are NOT the models for the studio.
The obvious answer would be they no longer have the original model, for any one of a variety of reasons.
Just to add to the inconsistencies of Necromunda: Gor Half-horn now has quite a few additional weapons in the summary of GW2 compared to his profile page and the card that comes with the miniature (in addition to his Chainsword missing 'Rending' trait).
2018/02/20 19:34:09
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice.
Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
Couldn't agree more. I still don't understand how GW thought that releasing the game with only 2 factions was a good idea. Talk about a momentum killer. At the strict minimum, they should have had 4 gangs available. What's done done, and there's no point on crying over spilled milk, but I'm still pissed with that decision.
Thankfullly, they seems to have long term plans for necro, so that botched release won't affect its viability
I'm on both sides of the fence here on this line of argument...
1.) 2 factions on release and for prolonged periods in a list building game does indeed make for a tough go. 3-4 seems more of an ideal amount, and considering just how constrained the needs are for Necromunda in terms of the limited models needed, it would have made better sense. I don't think the game killed itself by any means though, that goes a bit too far for me. But otherwise a valid observation as far as a gamer perspective goes.
2.) As a collector/painter more than a player, I have actually been very relieved that the release was limited with the promise of a steady pace of releases. I can actually get this stuff painted in time before the new shiny comes out, leaving me with a shelf of fully painted game, not a closet full of impulse purchased models that quickly overwhelm the ability to keep up. I have bought all N17 models and releases thus far. Never managed that before for any other game. And, on top of it, this stuff is actually getting painted. From a collector/painter perspective, the pace of release is pretty damn good.
Now, this says nothing about the rules issue, which are aggravating but not game-ruining for most imho. But overall, have been pretty happy with my N17 experience.
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice.
Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
Couldn't agree more. I still don't understand how GW thought that releasing the game with only 2 factions was a good idea. Talk about a momentum killer. At the strict minimum, they should have had 4 gangs available. What's done done, and there's no point on crying over spilled milk, but I'm still pissed with that decision.
Thankfullly, they seems to have long term plans for necro, so that botched release won't affect its viability
I'm on both sides of the fence here on this line of argument...
1.) 2 factions on release and for prolonged periods in a list building game does indeed make for a tough go. 3-4 seems more of an ideal amount, and considering just how constrained the needs are for Necromunda in terms of the limited models needed, it would have made better sense. I don't think the game killed itself by any means though, that goes a bit too far for me. But otherwise a valid observation as far as a gamer perspective goes.
2.) As a collector/painter more than a player, I have actually been very relieved that the release was limited with the promise of a steady pace of releases. I can actually get this stuff painted in time before the new shiny comes out, leaving me with a shelf of fully painted game, not a closet full of impulse purchased models that quickly overwhelm the ability to keep up. I have bought all N17 models and releases thus far. Never managed that before for any other game. And, on top of it, this stuff is actually getting painted. From a collector/painter perspective, the pace of release is pretty damn good.
Now, this says nothing about the rules issue, which are aggravating but not game-ruining for most imho. But overall, have been pretty happy with my N17 experience.
In a way, the slow release doesn't really affect me, cause like you, I'm more of a collectionner than a gamer. But it sure killed the enthusiasm among the store wich I frequent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/20 20:42:46
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2018/02/20 20:27:53
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
This is correct. Andy was saying "No genuinely, If you're interested apply, we need to find 3 more sculptors".
Whatever they thought they'd do with Necromunda (which was quite a bit considering they were talking about how they had built up stock of the base game beforehand, when people were worried about Shadow War style lack of stock), they are obviously meeting and exceeding those expectations enough to expand.
Hopefully this will mean BB shifts up a gear too when those positions are filled!
2018/02/20 23:52:09
Subject: Re:Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Really liked the old bit of Mark Gibson artwork for Mad Donna - if the name wasn't clue enough, you can see where the influence came from!
Sadly this was the highest resolution I could find - I remember the artwork in the old Necromunda rulebook being much sharper.
Pacific wrote: Really liked the old bit of Mark Gibson artwork for Mad Donna - if the name wasn't clue enough, you can see where the influence came from!
That's a 28 year old reference though. I won't be upset if most off the players these days don't know who Jean Paul Gauthier or Madonna are.
Also, I doubt if today's GW sculptors could do that in 30(2)mm.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2018/02/21 06:47:24
Subject: Re:Necromunda Underhive - Made to Order Kal and Mad Donna page 106
Pacific wrote: Really liked the old bit of Mark Gibson artwork for Mad Donna - if the name wasn't clue enough, you can see where the influence came from!
That's a 28 year old reference though. I won't be upset if most off the players these days don't know who Jean Paul Gauthier or Madonna are.
Also, I doubt if today's GW sculptors could do that in 30(2)mm.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
