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When should we take Power Weapons and when should we take Powerfists in a troop slot for CSM?

Obviously, only the Champions may carry them, and the one troop choice that most benefits from the Powerfist is the Plague Marines (having a lower Initiative). But when does taking a Power weapon benefit the troop? When they take Meltabombs? When they take a Combi-weapon? Or should most of the other troop choices (i.e. not Plague Marines) not consider taking either?

The Powerfist can sometimes work out as insurance in case you come across a stray vehicle or high toughness enemy. But if you have MEQ Initiative, or Slaaneshi Initiative, we gain a greater advantage with a Power Weapon when in CC with other infantry types.

Either option can be costly, as you would have to upgrade a model to a champion, then upgrade again for either CC weapon upgrade.

Just can't figure out what's best.

Zech

In every other situation but Slannesh? Take a PW.

Noise Marines and ANYTHING with the Mark of Slannesh should take advantage of striking quicker then loyalists.

Shadowbrand wrote:In every other situation but Slannesh? Take a PW.

Noise Marines and ANYTHING with the Mark of Slannesh should take advantage of striking quicker then loyalists.

I'm confused: Do you mean Powerfist instead? Because Slaaneshi Initiative bonus is diminished with a Powerfist.

I often times find myself taking a Powerfist even in my Slaaneshi troops for, as I mentioned before, insurance. This isn't the case for my non-troop choices though. Terminators: I always include a Chainfist. And Raptors: I usually bring a champ with a pair of LCs. This is beside the point and doesn't exactly effect the original topic though.

Plague Marines = either Power Fist or nothing due to I3

Berserkers = Power Weapon if you are hoping out of a Land Raider to get the charge or have Kharn in the squad, otherwise a Power Fist

Noise Marines = Power Weapon is ok if you bring enough anti-tank to the table elsewhere, safer choice is Power Fist especially if you have a Doom Siren since you'll have alot of anti-MEQ already

CSMs = Power Fists unless you are running 2x Meltaguns and a Combi-Melta, even then its probably better.

power weapons. the higher init, extra attack, and lower cost add up to a better package than the str 8 attacks. unless your plaguemarines, as someone already pointed out, in which case you'll be swinging after meq anyway so go ahead and get it.

Shadowbrand wrote:In every other situation but Slannesh? Take a PW.

Noise Marines and ANYTHING with the Mark of Slannesh should take advantage of striking quicker then loyalists.

Right.
Power fists are Dreadnought insurance.

You know what a power fist does not do? Discriminate. If you're a marine, a terminator, a guardsman, a Tyranid warrior, a hive tyrant, a space marine librarian/chaos sorcerer/MEQ character with T4 and no EW, a vehicle, a monstrus creature, heavy infantry light infantry... I'm gonna punch you in the face with a power fist. True, against something like a dreadnaught, not the best option- we would all rather melta it, amirite fellas?- but they can certainly do it. The extra attack with a power is kind of "whoop dee doo" to me. I've seen a sarge take out 4 models in one turn with his powersword, once in a blue moon when virgins are sacrificed to the dark gods and the accept the paltry offering. I've seen a powerfist krump 3 guys in one turn plenty of times though.

PF is generally my preference.

PF

The day you pack a PW is the day you'll get stuck in CC with a walker.

Zerkers should not take a PW. The champ is S9 on the charge, but more importantly you want the champ going on a different initiative than the squad to prevent wound allocation shenanigans. Examples being:

Zerkers V 10 MEQ: Zerkers score 18 wounds and 3 power weapon wounds on I5. The 3 power weapon wounds are allocated to the flame thrower, everybody else receives 2 wounds. Having the Pfist go on init 1 would prevent the wound allocation shenanigans that reduces the power weapon to doing a single wound per round.

I guess a more accurate question might be:

Powerfist or Power Weapon w/ a Meltabomb?

The PF doesn't discriminate, but the Meltabomb *usually* gets the job it does done.

I've never been that impressed with a single Meltabomb.
Against light armor its not that much better then your free Kraks and its inferior to 2 /3 S8 Power Fist swings.
Against enemy walkers its only hitting on 6's most of the time instead of 4's for a Power Fist.
Against MCs its as useful as a week old tunafish sandwich

So really, its only a help if you happen to assault a Land Raider.

minigun762 wrote:So really, its only a help if you happen to assault a Land Raider.

... and if you are going to be that close to a Land Raider you should consider having a Meltagun instead of assaulting it.

Guess all of this answers my questions!

Thanks so much guys. I like the looks of Powerfists more anyhow.

In all fairness, I did want to include one spot where I think the Meltabomb is useful and thats on Thousand Sons' Asp. Sorcerers.

The first reason is simple, they can't take a Power Fist and don't have free Krak Grenades so its better then nothing.
However the second reason is less obvious but still important and that is when combined with Warptime, you actually get a pretty decent return on the Meltabomb since you're getting the equivalent of 2 attacks with it.

Fist is the 'all-comers' option.
While, none at all is the generalist option.

Power weapons are just not impresstive IMO, while the fist can take out ANYTHING in the 40K universe.

My reason for choosing powerfists? Because I can say:
"I fisted your Cannonese last night."

Yeah, but sisters don't believe in power fists, so for some reason she gets a 2+ save against them.

Lol at acts of faith.

Melta bombs only belong on tsons because they can't fist anybody.

Due to wound allocation shinanigans I can't think of any troops choice that is better off with a power weapon.

@scuddman:
Lol at forcing them to use faith before committing to bending the Cannonese over a chair.

@schadenfreude:
Realistically it only ever makes a large impact vs. nobs.

Sanctjud wrote:@scuddman:
Lol at forcing them to use faith before committing to bending the Cannonese over a chair.

@schadenfreude:
Realistically it only ever makes a large impact vs. nobs.

And tactical marines, or anything else with a heavy/special weapon.

As long as the number of wounds exceeds the squad size tac marines will just take 2 power weapon wounds on the heavy or special weapon.

Oops, I read your line oppositely...I thought it was 'for' power weapons instead of 'against'.
Crossed out my comment as I agree with yours upon reading it correctly.

schadenfreude wrote:
*snip*

Zerkers should not take a PW. The champ is S9 on the charge, but more importantly you want the champ going on a different initiative than the squad to prevent wound allocation shenanigans. Examples being:

Zerkers V 10 MEQ: Zerkers score 18 wounds and 3 power weapon wounds on I5. The 3 power weapon wounds are allocated to the flame thrower, everybody else receives 2 wounds. Having the Pfist go on init 1 would prevent the wound allocation shenanigans that reduces the power weapon to doing a single wound per round.

That's a very astute observation, I never thought about Power Fists like that. I'll still keep Power Weapons in my Noise Marine Squads, as six guys with Blasters, Siren, and PW have wiped out entire Tactical Squads before they can even fight back enough times to make it worth sticking with, but my lists in general may use more Fisting in the future.