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What weapons in the game, still roll extra D/6 to the Monolith, due to their stat-line?

As an Ork player, locally, and I'm hoping everywhere else, when Tankbustas are used we still roll the extra D/6 due to its stat-line.

But I want to know is if my Deffrolla rolls a D6, does the Monolith still take the D6 hits.

Yes, deffrola normaly does 6 attacks, as it has nothing to do with penetration...

No extra d6 dice is rolled at armor penetration roll... Only thing that works is ordance weapons (don't ask me why, it just states that it does)... So no melta, lance, mc, all the funny weapons like chainfists (or however they're called, always mix +1dmg and 2d6 pen) and so on...


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Btw, this thread belongs to YMDC and not here...

Seconded that I think this belongs in YMDC. I would think that the Vanquisher battlecannon would still get 2d6 for armor pen, as the rules for that don't say it gets an 'extra' d6, but rather that it gets 2d6 standard.

Yeah, this is a YMDC issue.

I don't believe anything gets an extra D6 for penetration. Ordinance works, because you roll 2d6 and take the highest, which isn't an extra d6.

There is an argument to be made for some weapons that say to roll "2d6" or "3d6" for it's penetration roll, since it says to do that as a baseline rather than getting an "extra". But, there are arguments each way for those weapons. My vote is that they only ever get 1d6.

You roll Strength + D6 "no matter what" when rolling for Armour pen.

Weapons that have a Random Number of attacks still roll normally.

Gwar! wrote:You roll Strength + D6 "no matter what" when rolling for Armour pen.

I don't believe Monoliths reduce the number of D6's rolled with Eldritch Storm or Turbo Penetrator.

See what Gwar wrote? Well, he's right. All you ever get when attempting to penetrate the Monolith is the unmodified strength of the weapon plus 1d6, "no matter what". The no matter what bit is a quote from the stealth reprint of the Necron Codex where they tweaked the Monolith rules a bit. So Tankbustas don't work, Canquishers don't work, Eldritch Storm and Turbo Penetrators don't work (altho the last USED TO).

You really have to check with the necron codex about this. As far as I know nothing rolls extra d6 except ordenance.

Everyone is like 'my *insert unit* from my *insert army* should be able to.' but all the necronn plays are like nothing rolls extra d6 against my monolith.

Its a big debatable topic that has an answer on the necron faq, but on dakka most people just want their army to be better.

Forum Name Reading Fail.

There is also, of course, the issue of whether DCCWs and PFs, and other strength altering rules affect attacks directed at Monoliths.

Generally (due to the fickle stealth reprint, and arguments that the "Strength+D6" line is really only in reference to the rest of the paragraph), most people say: "You always only get 1D6 for armour pen, but Power Fists and Strength modifiers work as normal."

However, it's always good to clarify with your opponent, as this is a significant point of contention.

Certainly don't see why a Meltabomb wouldn't use 8+2d6... it's nothing extra, just the regular penetration it has.

Spetulhu wrote:Certainly don't see why a Meltabomb wouldn't use 8+2d6... it's nothing extra, just the regular penetration it has.

I think the 'Living Metal' rules specifically say melta weapons don't get 2d6 for pen. At least that's what I remember from the last time I read the Necron codex....I'm not sure if I read the original or the updated version, but that's the logic behind why meltabombs don't get their 2d6.

I'm pretty sure the spirit of the rule is that everything gets 1d6, regardless of any semantic tricks you can pull with the wording of your own rules. Yes, I know I tried that earlier with my Vanquisher post, but Gwar's response seems to have settled it pretty definitively.

Nothing in the grenade rules suggest it's a Strenght of any sort, just penetration. Melta weapons would lose out on the extra d6 at half range or under, but the grenade isn't one.

edit: but no worries here, never seen a necron player anyway. ;-)

Not entirely raw, but
the FAQ says
powerfists get their Sx2 but nothing gets extra D6
The single exception is the turbo penetrator round as the s value is X

So in new stealth reprint even ordance weapons roll 1d6?
I ask this because in my dex (I really don't know is it reprint or not) it explicitly says that ordance still works...

Ordnance still rolls 2D6, because they pick the highest - they only get S+1D6 after you have picked the highest 1.

In theory as Meltabombs (or any grenade) have neither strength nor armour penetration (as neither are listed) you could argue it gets 8+2D6, however that relied on the previous FAQ which stated that the TP round got 3D6.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:Certainly don't see why a Meltabomb wouldn't use 8+2d6... it's nothing extra, just the regular penetration it has.

I think the 'Living Metal' rules specifically say melta weapons don't get 2d6 for pen. At least that's what I remember from the last time I read the Necron codex....I'm not sure if I read the original or the updated version, but that's the logic behind why meltabombs don't get their 2d6.

Meltabombs do not have the melta rule.


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Spetulhu wrote:Certainly don't see why a Meltabomb wouldn't use 8+2d6... it's nothing extra, just the regular penetration it has.

This is the big debate. It's not an "extra" d6. Nor is it Strength 8 so the line about S+D6 doesn't apply either.

They either get 8+2D6 or they get 0+D6.

Scott-S6 wrote:
Meltabombs do not have the melta rule.

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Spetulhu wrote:Certainly don't see why a Meltabomb wouldn't use 8+2d6... it's nothing extra, just the regular penetration it has.

This is the big debate. It's not an "extra" d6. Nor is it Strength 8 so the line about S+D6 doesn't apply either.

They either get 8+2D6 or they get 0+D6.

My point was that the meltabomb, being a weapon based on melta technology from a fluff perspective would only get 1d6 of penetration due to Necrons' living metal. And you're right about the grenade thing. I would still argue that a meltabomb would only be 8+d6 as RAI, the 8 is the strength of the grenade, with the 2d6 being melta rules for penetration.

Except after at least 2 versions (cant remember grenade rules in 3rd) they have never listed a strength or penetration for grenades, including meltabombs, making "RAI" even shakier than normal.

The normal penetration for a meltabomb is 8+2D6. therefore either it is 0+D6 against a monolith (as it has no listed Strength) or it is 8+2D6 as that is the normal penetration. The latter interpretation was sort of backed up by the previous FAQ that stated that, as a TP rounds "normal" penetration is 3D6 that it got that against a monolith.

No, Ordnance has not changed, it's still 2d6 take the highest. Powerfists and such work bescause it's unmodified strength of the weapon. Unmod strength of the PF is 2xusers st. Furious Charge and such does not work, since it is a bonus outdie the unmod strength. meltabombs, etc, ST + 1d6, nothing else. Wanna argue it doesn't have a strength, fine, it's 0 plus 1d6. Normal penetration is irrelevant, as the Monolith Living Metal rule changes it to ST plus 1d6 "no matter what".

Except their argument is that it isnt

8(the str of the attack) + d6.

its the str of the attack = 8+2d6.

Dont have an opinion either way .... i never bother with meltabombs, imho if im relying on 1 hit each goin on 6s ive probably already lost but for a stroke of luck ...

don_mondo wrote:meltabombs, etc, ST + 1d6, nothing else.

What's the strength of a meltabomb? Page reference please.

Scott-S6 wrote:

don_mondo wrote:meltabombs, etc, ST + 1d6, nothing else.

What's the strength of a meltabomb? Page reference please.

They don't have a Strength, they have 8+2D6 for Armour Penetration.

Scott-S6 wrote:

don_mondo wrote:meltabombs, etc, ST + 1d6, nothing else.

What's the strength of a meltabomb? Page reference please.

8 or 0, your call, I really don't care. So you get one of those plus a d6, and nothing else, "no matter what". If (as GWar has stated) you believe that it has no strength and just has an armor penetration of 8 + 2d6, well, then that gets changed to 0 + d6, so enjoy. My opinion is that given the format the meltabomb armor penetration is written in, most of us read that as an understtod strength of 8 plus 2d6 penetration. But again, you can read it any way you want, IMO it's not worth arguing about, since the Living Metal rule changes it's armor penetration anyways.

The whole "roll a single D6 no matter what" should trump any other rule. Too many people are focusing on the "don't get extra dice for penetration" in the living metal rule and not enough people are paying attention to the part already mentioned. So, sure, the meltabomb may get 8+2d6 for armor penetration normally but the living metal rule reduces it to 1d6. It's still only ever a glance anyway so why argue it so much.

Kevin949 wrote:The whole "roll a single D6 no matter what" should trump any other rule. Too many people are focusing on the "don't get extra dice for penetration" in the living metal rule and not enough people are paying attention to the part already mentioned. So, sure, the meltabomb may get 8+2d6 for armor penetration normally but the living metal rule reduces it to 1d6. It's still only ever a glance anyway so why argue it so much.

It can't glance.

Either you take the Meltabomb as having no strength, and therefore rolls 0+D6 or you take it as having no strength, so it can't ever roll "Strength + D6" and you roll the Meltabombs 8+2D6 Armour pen. There is no basis in the RaW whatsoever to support a 8+D6 solution.

Gwar! wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:The whole "roll a single D6 no matter what" should trump any other rule. Too many people are focusing on the "don't get extra dice for penetration" in the living metal rule and not enough people are paying attention to the part already mentioned. So, sure, the meltabomb may get 8+2d6 for armor penetration normally but the living metal rule reduces it to 1d6. It's still only ever a glance anyway so why argue it so much.

It can't glance.

Either you take the Meltabomb as having no strength, and therefore rolls 0+D6 or you take it as having no strength, so it can't ever roll "Strength + D6" and you roll the Meltabombs 8+2D6 Armour pen. There is no basis in the RaW whatsoever to support a 8+D6 solution.

I just meant if you played it the way it's obviously meant to be played, as str8+d6. RAW it all ya want, really, we all know that was the intent and that the str0+d6 business wouldn't fly even in friendly games.

Kevin949 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:The whole "roll a single D6 no matter what" should trump any other rule. Too many people are focusing on the "don't get extra dice for penetration" in the living metal rule and not enough people are paying attention to the part already mentioned. So, sure, the meltabomb may get 8+2d6 for armor penetration normally but the living metal rule reduces it to 1d6. It's still only ever a glance anyway so why argue it so much.

It can't glance.

Either you take the Meltabomb as having no strength, and therefore rolls 0+D6 or you take it as having no strength, so it can't ever roll "Strength + D6" and you roll the Meltabombs 8+2D6 Armour pen. There is no basis in the RaW whatsoever to support a 8+D6 solution.

I just meant if you played it the way it's obviously meant to be played, as str8+d6. RAW it all ya want, really, we all know that was the intent and that the str0+d6 business wouldn't fly even in friendly games.

I'm not so sure about that. 8 is not the strength of the attack, just a value added to the pen roll, just like the +1 for Tank Hunters and the like isn't part of the strength of the attacker but a value added to the pen roll. I can't see a logical reason why one would work and another wouldn't.

OK then, I'll take 0+d6 if that's the case.

Why not 8+3d6? That's a d6 added to the basic penetration of the things. ;-)

As for the serious part, one gets the feeling that the Living Metal rule was written by someone who had no idea armor penetration could ever be anything but Strength + dice.