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Me and a friend were wandering the other day wether or not the AP o a weapon could not only stop armour saves but also modify them so lets say:
Space marine 3+ armour save has to make a save against a pulse rifle 5AP then you -1 off the marnes armour save giving him an armour value of 4+.


What do you guys think of this?

This is basically how armor saves and AP work in fantasy actually.

And 2nd edition 40k IIRC. Except it was Strength that could modify armour saves.

It wasn't strength, it was save modifier.

Back when Terminators had a 3+ save on 2d6... and I think the Lascannon had a -6 save modifier.

Strength's only used for modifier in Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

EDIT: Frankly... they wanted to get rid of most modifiers, and though controversial in the beginning, I actually like it.

That will be the one then. Terminator saves on 2D6 - Nasty.

Exactly like the fantasy rules but i was thinking AP changes the save instead of strength

Just be prepared to need to cut the cost of MEQs way down while leaving everything else where it is. Orks and Guard would otherwise dominate completely, since they're not wasting points on saves they'll never actually get.

Jack

Yea true thats the problem I guess.

Jackmojo wrote:Just be prepared to need to cut the cost of MEQs way down while leaving everything else where it is. Orks and Guard would otherwise dominate completely, since they're not wasting points on saves they'll never actually get.

Jack

I'd disagree with this.

But, that may just be that I resent how much love GW shows SM.


I've tried working out a simple system, using current stats. There's no good way, I can think of, to make things balanced without a major overhaul to AP and armor saves.

HI all.
GW used the AP system to replace the armour modifiers .(But still uses a seperate system for vehicvles with modifiers... )

However if we extended the AV values down to cover ALL units.
Then simply used the armour value as the modifier to the strenght of the attack.

Sv 6+=AV1
Sv 4+= AV 3
Sv2+ + AV 5

(Invunerable saves add on to the normal Saves to cover values AV 6 to 9)

EG
S 7-AV 1 = S 6 vs model toughness.
S 7- AV 5 =S 2 vs model toughness

It would mean revising all weapon strenghts , and giving vehicles toughnesses and wounds.
But you would get ONE system than covers ALL units.

TTFN

I really Like the idea there. One system I would prefer but the one at the moment is good.

That would hurt T3 models with good saves more than it would hurt Marines, and said armies (Eldar, Sisters) don't really need the penalty...

So what would you do with feel no pain then?

Actually strength isn't the only fantasy modifier, there are also things like handguns which an addition reduction effect called armor pen if i recall correctly