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I keep hearing this from friends, people around, randoms in GW and some few on the forum and it annoys me.
I know, I know "Another Dark Eldar thread, boooo"

But this is more a collective then a review or discussion of rules or units.
How many people here actually believe it is a bad thing that the Dark Eldar are still glass cannons?

I mean these people I hear basically complain that they are not space mariney enough (because thats what we all need more SM) or don't fulfil their roles at all.
Personally I think they grasped the concept of their roll pretty damn well, but I would like to hear your opinions.

Edit: Spelling.

Surely the point of the Dark Eldar, like the Eldar, is to be an army for more experienced players who have the knowledge to play them? Isn't that why they're Glass Cannons?
I dunno, I think they're fine as they are, it's just inexperienced players complaining because they weren't expecting to have to use relatively complex tactics.

I agree with OP. Dark Eldar are just fine.

I haven't seen the actual codex and have to go off of what I've seen in various posts, but really it comes down to most people want their codex to be the next Space Wolves or Imperial Guard and be the most competative dex around. The reality is unless you perfectly balance everything, there will always be a top army or two to play. If every codex that comes out aims to be that top dog, then you have a very nasty case of codex creep where the game just gets more and more unbalanced with each new dex. From what I've seen, I suspect that DE will be a very solid mid tier army which is where codex writers should be aiming with all dexes.

EDIT: I shouldn't say most people want their dex to be top tier, that's not really true or fair. The most vocal people claiming that a dex is too weak usually are the ones wanting it to be top tier.

Syanti, it seems to me at least that you have been listening to a few too many idiots.
Of course it's too early to tell, but the new Dark Eldar appear to be a very solid army and Codex. The glass-cannon aspect suits them perfectly and they look set to be a very, very competitive army when used properly. They aren't easy to be used, but they never were and shouldn't be IMHO.

At the very least, they will be competitive and have new fluff, more variety and great new models.

You're probably hearing that from them because they're incompetent.

No fifth edition codex is uncompetitive yet, and certainly Dark Eldar aren't. They take some actual talent to use, but they are strong when used properly.

Because they are an Eldar army. That's what defines the Eldar.

I make that 4 people who have completely thrashed this view. I count myself as a person, you see.
My suggestion is you politely correct these people, OP, as to how an Eldar army of any kind should work.

Agreed Gorkar. See This thread for another example.


On another note, I'm liking your new Avatar, I think I prefer your old one but they both rock...

Just Dave wrote:Agreed Gorkar. See This thread for another example.


On another note, I'm liking your new Avatar, I think I prefer your old one but they both rock...

Well, it was Movember, and I decided to continue my raptor-themed avatars.
Either way, thanks!

I'm not an expert by any means, but I think the new DE will rock against IG, Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar. It will be a tougher fight against Marines of any flavor or Necrons, but really, how often are Dark Eldar really going to be bringing the attack to them? I mean, in terms of fluff. So the Dark Eldar should be optimized against their anticipated opponents fluffwise, and it is wholly unfluffy that 75% of the actual armies out there are MEQ.

I don't see why they'd have any problems against MEQ. Actually poisoned weapons have a greater bonus against MEQ than non-MEQ.

The issue I'm seeing is that the Dark Eldar are great against big scary expensive things. The most ridiculous Special Characters and Monstrous Creatures are pitifully easy for DE to destroy, and they seem to excel against the most powerful units. Their quality of ability is second to none and are even more ridiculous against stuff like Space Marines than before, and god help anything resembling a Nidzilla list.

However when confronted by something that just doesn't require such powerful wargear to destroy, they seem to lack the quantity of power.

Yeah, it's great that your HQ gets a huge strength bonus from killing an IC, that your incubi get to generate more attacks and can get preferred enemy against an IC, your "ap2 take test against wounds characteristic" is very scary, that almost everything is I5/6+, tons of your wargear just removes models entirely or otherwise annihilates expensive characters and models or debilitates them in some way, tons of your weapons ignore any AV higher than 12, and you've got a host of weapons that all ignore toughness and always wound on a 4+. My Tyranid army is pissing itself, my Eldar are not enthused about their chances, and my CSM's are looking for somewhere else to fight.

But none of it is worth spit against my dog-face Guardsmen where all this stuff is just incredibly overkill (not to mention most IG armies have no IC's) and thus wasted points.

The DE lack an ability to deal with weeny units without going overboard it seems. They seem even more tailored to fighting against Space Marines and ultra-elite armies than they were before, but so much of the DE's powerful abilities means absolutely nothing against light/medium vehicles and putz infantry. It's hard to imagine an army more suited to being taken apart by many horde Ork lists and Imperial Guard armies.



I think DE will do astoundingly well against a good number of the armies out there, as I said my Tyranids, Eldar, and CSM's are going to have a hell of a fight. On the other hand it seems to be very one-sided against the DE with my IG, not quite sure where my Tau will fall however.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Agreed Gorkar. See This thread for another example.


On another note, I'm liking your new Avatar, I think I prefer your old one but they both rock...

Well, it was Movember, and I decided to continue my raptor-themed avatars.
Either way, thanks!

Christmas Dinosaur Soon??

Just Dave wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Agreed Gorkar. See This thread for another example.


On another note, I'm liking your new Avatar, I think I prefer your old one but they both rock...

Well, it was Movember, and I decided to continue my raptor-themed avatars.
Either way, thanks!

Christmas Dinosaur Soon??

Indeed, I'm working on him as we speak.

Anyway, I stand by what I said. Dark Eldar are an army that require some thought to play, and as a result they shouldn't really be played by people still getting to grips with tactics unless they are already pretty good at it. Not that I claim to be such an expert myself, of course. In fact, I'm staying away from the Eldars for that very reason.

Dark Eldar is fun to play and actually quite hilarious to watch.

vehicle that strikes back with S4 attack?
2+ Invul.save?
A dancing queen with a 9 WS and BS skill? Get bonus attack based on opponent's WS skill?
Vehicle with 5+ invul save?
The list goes on.

D.E doesn't need to be like S.M. That's a fact. It's call diversity. Honestly, if every 40k army 'is like S.M', who the feth wants to play the game anyway?

One of the biggest strengths of 40K is the level of difference between the various factions. For too many games the only difference is the shape of the hats or the names of the guns.

Another 5th ed codex which is radically different to the other is most welcome.

What I don't get is that a lot of the too "weak" crowd are old DE players. I've only been playing DE for about 4 years now and this codex while changed some of my tactics and list building, is a welcomed changed.

Luthon1234 wrote:What I don't get is that a lot of the too "weak" crowd are old DE players. I've only been playing DE for about 4 years now and this codex while changed some of my tactics and list building, is a welcomed changed.

Perhaps these people were expecting a codex so broken it would kill weaker men on sight?
I mean, they got a decent codex, so I don't see what they have to complain about.

They wanted Vect to have stats akin to a Daemon Prince and more suitable for a Primarch I guess?
Or deep-striking Ravagers?
Or Dark Eldar riding Eldar into battle?
Or...

Just Dave wrote:They wanted Vect to have stats akin to a Daemon Prince and more suitable for a Primarch I guess?
Or deep-striking Ravagers?
Or Dark Eldar riding Eldar into battle?
Or...

Actually.. we do have deep striking ravagers now and before the new codex

Well, it does have a bit too much of the standard Eldar points increase for no discernible reason, but other than that, it's pretty solid.

Melissia wrote:You're probably hearing that from them because they're incompetent.

No fifth edition codex is uncompetitive yet, and certainly Dark Eldar aren't. They take some actual talent to use, but they are strong when used properly.

Because they are an Eldar army. That's what defines the Eldar.

I agree completely. Eldar have long (always?) been a epic win or epic loss army. Used correctly they are amazing, used poorly they go down fast. If the new DE are working like this they they have been done properly. Not every army has the stand and fight qualities of SM...if they did it would be a pretty lame game to play.

Just Dave wrote:They wanted Vect to have stats akin to a Daemon Prince and more suitable for a Primarch I guess?
Or deep-striking Ravagers?
Or Dark Eldar riding Eldar into battle?
Or...

Or a codex with an inbuilt laser cannon for TFG.





Actually, that would be very handy.

From what I glanced through the book, DEs seem to be the Alpha strike army it was rumored to be. And fairly well executed. If they get the first shot off, you can bet the enemy is gonna be shaking. Vect might also see more play due to this, since his ability to improve Seize the Initiative Rolls will be very useful for getting that first turn.

Having read through the codex and built a couple lists I think DE will do fine against any army except for mech IG. Lances are not that great versus armor, so while you are best shaking and stunning their tanks they will be popping your paper airplanes lights out.

Anyone saying it is a "poor" codex has pretty much no idea of the strengths, and is unable to see past 5+ saves, AV10 and T3

they have gained HUGE amounts of speed (scary amounts for people to deal with, the difference between 36" and 24" is crazy for peoples perceptions) for everything vehicle or bike, staying power through StP (if youre not starting with them the current meta of bubble wrap guard et al gives you one quickly enough) - even on T3 models.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Luthon1234 wrote:What I don't get is that a lot of the too "weak" crowd are old DE players. I've only been playing DE for about 4 years now and this codex while changed some of my tactics and list building, is a welcomed changed.

Perhaps these people were expecting a codex so broken it would kill weaker men on sight?
I mean, they got a decent codex, so I don't see what they have to complain about.

I've noticed this also. Honestly I don't know what they expected out of a new DE Codex. Old DE players lost very little in old rules and gained tons in new rules. For the most part stats of every unit stayed the same or increased. Points changed nominally. The ones crying the most about these losses need to be ignored, they know who they are and so do we. Trust me, DE are stronger than they used to be. They were never for the faint of heart and for somebody that wants to just stand and deliver, this is the wrong army. You can call it 'finesse' or 'synergy' but what it really boils down to is understanding your opponent and using the proper units to dispatch his.

The last game I played w/ my old DE were against the new BA back in March/April of this year. I lost the initiative and wasn't too happy about going second as I knew he could hunker down and just turn the game into a shooting match. So what did I do? I placed every raider just out of range of his weapons or behind cover to where he could not see them and made him come to me. 2nd round on my turn I popped nearly half of his armor and we went toe to toe. We fought the whole four rounds and he won but it wasn't an easy win. I call that being competitive.

Rymafyr wrote:
The last game I played w/ my old DE were against the new BA back in March/April of this year. I lost the initiative and wasn't too happy about going second as I knew he could hunker down and just turn the game into a shooting match. So what did I do? I placed every raider just out of range of his weapons or behind cover to where he could not see them and made him come to me. 2nd round on my turn I popped nearly half of his armor and we went toe to toe. We fought the whole four rounds and he won but it wasn't an easy win. I call that being competitive.

Small note:
I think there is a temporal anomoly here. I'm sure you are just typing as you are thinking.
I would re-word it as: "I deployed with respect to the possibility that he would seize. So the Radiers were a little bit back. Then he did seize and I was safe..." etc.
Just so it doesn't look like the opponent rolled Seize before you deployed.

I think at first glance, everyone is going to think they are a weak race, especially if you are contrasting them against SM! I think the points value of the new models is low and will keep them competative. They are eldar, so they have to be percieved as physically weak in the first place, but I am going to have to wait and see how they play. I know one thing, if they turn out to be weak, that definately isnt going to deter me from collecting an army....the new models are some of the best the game has!!!

My friend the xenophiliac got ahold of the new codex and whined about how it wasn't an overpowered super cheesy codex like the other 5th edition ones. A week later we had our first game. If I hadn't called it, he would have tabled me. My first opinion was that it felt like the codex was designed to destroy mech guard, though that could have just been his list. It was definitely a wake up call, especially from old Dark Eldar. They've gotten much better, though there are a few glaring weaknesses they do have. Needless to say, they're making me consider more Hellhounds and the particular Russ that has the Nova Cannon on it.

They're not weak. They're fragile.

Poisoned 4+ Rapid Fire Weapons across the board, Heat Lances with Melta and Lances Rules... these aren't weak.

4+ Saves, 10 10 10 Open-Topped... these are fragile.

/Thread.