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Hello,

So still learning the basics of 8th ed. The local meta in my LFGS is almost entirely skaven. I play DoC at the 2250 point level. In the last 3 games I've played the downfall of my fight has been the Plague Furnance or Screaming Bell. I like the idea of a slaanesh based leadership bomb list, problem I'm having however is actually winning the combat to make my opponent take his test. I'm currently using a block of 30 horrors with HoT, 20 'letters with HoK, and a 20 block of demmonnettes also with HoS. ATM I'm using a KoS level 4 wizard for access to phantasmogoria (the high end leadership spell). Typically the KoS eats a warp lightning bolt to the face and evaporates. I'm getting better at finding some terrain for him to hide in though. Still a 90 point model killing a 500 pointer is frustrating. Anyway, what is the best answer the DoC have for doomwheels, Plague Furnance, and/or Screaming bell.

On a side note can Skulltaker killing blow the Plague Furnace/Screaming Bell (in a challenge or out of 1).

Oooo and one last question whats the best answer for the skaven named assasin. He eats my skulltaker for breakfast as he has higher initative, always strikes first for rerolls, high strength which bypasses takers armor save even on a jugger, and multiple wounds on a 2 wound model.

You need spells that can target the PF/SB at range, so you can kill the item that makes the unit unbreakable. Blood letters (killnig on 2's, 3's helps get casualties high) work well in 8th, especially in horde.

Alternative is get something fast in the side, but may not be possible if they are proper horde skaven.

Best answer for Deathmaster? Dont get near him.

Yes, Skulltaker's killing blow works on a 5+ on anything, in a challenge.

Your best bet, get rid of the HoK and HoS and use those points to add more troops to your blocks. With only blocks of 20 at T3, you risk them being at roughly 75% of unit strength by the time they get into combat.

You could also use those extra points for a unit of Bloodkrushers with Banner and Champion, who roughly have the same stat line as a HoK anyway.

I'd like to see Skulltaker actually fight a challenge against of these nasties, as the Skaven player would simply refuse.

Also, even if you win the combat, well the unit pushing either is Unbreakable. Kind of a worst nightmare for Daemons. Hell, with a little bad luck, you'll be facing a unit that's had a 13 on the Bell, and a good healthy dose of Skavenbrew...nobody get's up from that...

txscotch12 wrote:
On a side note can Skulltaker killing blow the Plague Furnace/Screaming Bell (in a challenge or out of 1).

matt55 wrote:Yes, Skulltaker's killing blow works on a 5+ on anything, in a challenge.

Mr Mystery wrote:I'd like to see Skulltaker actually fight a challenge against of these nasties, as the Skaven player would simply refuse.

Except you can't challenge a Bell or Furnace, only the characters riding it. However, unlike the Grey Seer, a Plague Priest on a Furnace can't refuse a Challenge.

Take Master of Sorcery on your Herald of Tzeentch and lore of life, and then drop dwellers on that unit. Should take out 50% of them right there. If you have throne of vines already up than then risk of miscast is nutered.

My 2nd game with blue scribes, if you let the enemey get a few weaker spellers off on you, you can save the power dice to give it to them real hard the next turn.

If you fight in a challenge you can still strike their mount, and the PF / SB is a mount (albeit a unique one!)

You don't even have to be in a challenge to hit the Bell/Furnance, just base to base. (As per pg. 43 for the Bell, and 49 for the Furnace.)

Steamdragon - except the context was using SkullTakers special KB, which only works in a challenge, to KB the furnace.

thanks for the input.

My thought process is takers killing blow is on a 5/6 instead of just a 6 and can affect a large creature. The question is does the PF/Bell count as a warmachine which the local meta thinks it does and is therefore immune to instant death or is it a mount. Also while dwellers is a great anti skaven spell the unit can still push the bell and due to the Dead or Fled rules the unit doesn't count as points until wiped. Since dweleers effectively kills 50 percent of a unit it has diminishing returns affect the intial big cast. My question then is what in the Daemon codex has the oomph to get rid of the big underpriced overpowerd furnance/bell without getting wiped out itself.

It is a mount, because the Skaven book STATES it is a mount.

If you kill 50% of the unit off (say, theyre now 30, 10 wide) they only have 3 ranks. You should, with 30 letters in horde with a herald, be able to kill 30*8/9*2/3 = 18 dead rats, assuming monks. Next turn the unit is dead. If you KB the Furnance / Bell as well, the unit flees due to -ve huuuuge combat res.

You may have to hit it with letters in the font, and something speedy like fiends in the side to drop it faster.

Definately going to try proxing some fiends and probably a unit of seekers. By dropping the Greater Daemon lots of points have opened up.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Steamdragon - except the context was using SkullTakers special KB, which only works in a challenge, to KB the furnace.

Yes, well, that is... *flees to the back rank and pushes slaves in the way*

My own Eshin assassin sneaks up behind and..well, you know the rest

Platuan4th wrote:

txscotch12 wrote:
On a side note can Skulltaker killing blow the Plague Furnace/Screaming Bell (in a challenge or out of 1).

matt55 wrote:Yes, Skulltaker's killing blow works on a 5+ on anything, in a challenge.

Mr Mystery wrote:I'd like to see Skulltaker actually fight a challenge against of these nasties, as the Skaven player would simply refuse.

Except you can't challenge a Bell or Furnace, only the characters riding it. However, unlike the Grey Seer, a Plague Priest on a Furnace can't refuse a Challenge.

BLARG! I AM SKULLTAKER! I KICK ARSE!

Why, you are right, you do kick arse. I'm Plaguelord barry by the way, and this is Neville...my unit champion. Neville, be a good lad and take a kicking for me whilst I mash up his unit....

Therein lies the undoing of Skullltaker. At least for a turn. And with that turn and the Plaguemonks + Furnace...well, that's usually all you need. S3 Frenzy is just the dab against girly Daemons!