Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I did a few searches, but didn't turn anything up except a post on movement speed and one considering swapping the V.Lord for a Bell.

What are the opinions, or Warlords of Dakka?

On the one hand, 500 points is a ton of points for one model, especially one that will always be on its own and never get a "Look out Sir!".

On the other hand, it's a Level 4 caster with T5/W5 and a 5+ ward. It's fast with M8 (16" march!) which could be nice for skirting around to hunt War Machines / Monsters (especially with S6 and Multiple Wounds (d3) on the glaive).



On a non-game stat related note, I do kinda love the model...


Thoughts?

Coming from me this probably isn't surprising ...

I love my vermin lord and have literally never fielded my skaven without him since he re-entered the game. He is clearly really vulnerable to enemy fire power but when mine dies it's often been to being charged and broken in combat, since he's not too fighty when it comes down to it. 8th edition has meant that he's easier to catch in combat (due to the increased charge distances as well as free wheels) but also means he's stronger, with the dead sexy S6 t.stomp. Though losing combats is still a real possibility, as is dying I'm finding, with the step up vs that wee T5 5+ ward

I've also always run him with plague lore and never looked back, as he has the mobility to push the lore to its fullest, and his solo style moderates the self-destructive nature of it (cloud for example), as well as the new miscast table. 8th has also provided a solution to his odd caveat that he can't be the general, by allowing for a warlord to be taken from 2360 points and up - though frankly I don't mind having vermy not be the general, as when he dies I only give up 500 points, and he can go rambo wherever he's needed.

When I plop him down on the table I usually rattle off his huge stats and nasty weapon, then sum up with "well, he is a greater demon" ... though T5 is pretty sad compared to the other big bads, he is also cheaper then a level 4 GD from the DoC book.

Annnnd yes I agree, I love the model and am thrilled to use it. I first built my VL when I was 12, then it sat around for 14 years until he was rebuilt and hit the table

- Salvage

PS: There's at least one batrep featuring the exploits of my vermin lord in 8th, try a search over in the battle reports section here. I don't often rep my skaven for some reason (lack of character for me, I'm guessing) but certainly play them a lot.

(Adding up Salvage's age...)

Another interesting Salvage-related note... will your dreadnought-status change when you make one more post (to hit 5K)? Might have to become a DCM to get a custom title and change it back

As to taking a vermin lord, BS (funny abbreviation ) has summarized excellently why you should. I think it's awesome because it's one of the less-common skaven units that I've seen (I guess because it needs to be converted). Go for it!

RiTides wrote:(Adding up Salvage's age...)

Another interesting Salvage-related note... will your dreadnought-status change when you make one more post (to hit 5K)? Might have to become a DCM to get a custom title and change it back

Curse you addition! Clearly that was my age pre-internment ... (And on the DL, unless I mutate into something awesome with this post there's a good chance I will pursue a custom title once more ...)

Back to the vermin lord, who says you have to convert one? The 'OOP' model is available on the 'bay, as well as from the 'dub itself.

- Salvage

EDIT
'Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer'? Bah! Time to warm up the old PayPal account ...

That title is not nearly as cool.

Lol @ "enigmatic" . I can't think of much of a bigger letdown there! Although a rather amusing one

I didn't realize there was a vermin lord model... that thing looks awesome! All the more reason to do it!!

And now to actually be a contributor to the thread rather than just commenting on BS's terrible new title...

I think you've pretty much summed up why nobody takes the Verminlord. At 500 points his most direct competition is the Screaming Bell for just a bit more. Grey Seers can pretty reliably toss out the Dreaded 13th at least twice a game and that spell is terrifying, not to mention all the other fun stuff the Bell does. That said, he is a very characterful choice and would defininitely differentiate yourself from the rest of your local Skaven brethren. Of course... first thing I'd do if I saw one is unleash a mighty hail of crossbow bolts at it.

Back on the topic of titles, who came up with Courageous Beastmaster? Beastmasters don't slap around a Hydra because they're courageous. They slap around a Hydra because they're BAMFs. I demand a title change to BAMF Beastmaster.

Incidentally, the Vermin Lord model is available, but only on direct order from GW's website. Mine showed up last week

Thanks for the thoughts. I admit I was a bit worried I'd get a stream of "he sucks, don't take him" and the like, since single model units seem to have taken a hit in survivability.

LMAO. Or they are just stupid. All the other DE took one step back when they were asking for volunteers.

In a tourney, ohhhhhh H-E Double Hockey sticks no to a Verminlord.

As far as friendly play absolutely, as posted noone expects it, he is a beefcake and is a good story... the model is cool but you can take a deamon price kit and make him much much better, if only they sold the head alone (sans ebay of course) and he looks beefier... I am thinking of using a forgeworld bloodthirster to make my 3rd and final master rat. Though I would never field more than 2, ever... ever ever? Forever, ever, Ms. Jackson.

Hmm this is a good thread, I was wondering whether or not a vermin lord would be worth it, and from this thread I'd say it sounds like he is.

Also I like how him being alone you could throw enough dice to try for undenyable cast on things like the thirteenth without having to worry about blowing up your bell and or a bunch of clanrats and such.

Exactly . It sounds like Boss_Salvage has done well with his from the bat reps, you just have to use it carefully!

Re: titles, perhaps we should invade the Nuts & Bolts thread about this (or make a new one)... this is primariliy a 40k site after all, so some of the fantasy titles might be a bit of... conjecture

(Although BS's is a 40k one anyway, I believe)

blak43 wrote:Also I like how him being alone you could throw enough dice to try for undenyable cast on things like the thirteenth without having to worry about blowing up your bell and or a bunch of clanrats and such.

Exactly, as well as his speed + maneuverability making sure he can be in a position to use his spells most effectively. Though re:13th it's not like he needs much positioning. Speaking of the 13th Spell, I'm actually not much of a fan - I've now taken it 3-4 times and have only cast it once despite throwing tons of dice into it. 25 is apparently too high for my vermin lord to reach (or it's fairly easy to dispel with a scroll or by tossing all of the enemy dice into). And the one time I cast it I killed 1,1,1,2 models. Mindblowingly unfortunate, so I stick with plague, which is super easy to cast, makes big blocks work against themselves and can decimate entire battle lines in one cast. Yum.

@ RT - Yep, I'm a chaos space marine who no longer plays 40k and kicks it old school instead

- Salvage

I've managed to pull of the 13th on two separate occasions, once by IF once normally.

The IF spell turned 16 Black Orks but was 2 short of wiping the squad + BSB.

The non-IF time turned 17 White Lions into Clan Rats, which ended up rear charging another unit.

I would love to face a vermin lord... I'm wondering if using the daemon prince for my army will be a similar experience (expensive mounstrous caster that could do a whole lot or be a big points sink when a cannon ploinks him ).

Also: 5K posts right back at ya, Boss_Salvage

RiTides wrote:I would love to face a vermin lord... I'm wondering if using the daemon prince for my army will be a similar experience (expensive mounstrous caster that could do a whole lot or be a big points sink when a cannon ploinks him ).

Also: 5K posts right back at ya, Boss_Salvage

Congrats dude! 3 years faster than me too

Like I said, it shouldn't be too surprising that I run both a vermin lord for skaven and a demon prince for WoC - overpriced monster leaders ftw! Now if my ogres only had like a frost giant king or something for me to waste points on

Annnd you could definitely be facing a VL early in 2011, since the gribblies are coming with me to DakkaCon ...

- Salvage

Alternate option if you're having trouble getting it to do anything for you it still scares the heck out of an opponent so if you need him/her to burn through his dispel dice and scrolls you can throw a bunch of dice at it then cast other things unimpeded.

Vermin lord rocks.
I found his T5 5+ ward very survivable; mostly because he advanced behind the pair of abominations, gaining decent cover.

Init 10, and 5 S6 attacks doing a D3 wounds is pretty awesome. Always challenge.

I wouldn't call him a greater daemon though, he plays more like a daemon prince.

-Matt

I think there's also value in fielding something that you are well practiced with but others have not seen as often. I got some mileage from this in 7th with the Strollaz combat list- opponents go on autopilot deploying as if they're fighting gunline dwarfs and realize some of the way through that there's a problem.

Same with the Vermin Lord- I've never played one and don't have a good feel for strengths and weaknesses, so it would certainly throw me off balance.

*L* RZ makes a great point there. What little mileage I got out of my Penitent Engines and Sisters Repentia was largely around "Wait... they do WHAT now?!"

Salvage might remember the game the day we met, with 16 Repentia slicing open a Black Templar LR, exploding it and cooking off all the terminators and command inside 2nd turn. "Remember when I said they had chainfists?" "I do now...%#!^"

I would say give the VL a shot. Worst case scenario you decide you don't like him and have painted one large and cool model for your shelf and have to paint another large and cool model to replace him. In my book that's a pretty nice briar patch to be in

HawaiiMatt wrote:I found his T5 5+ ward very survivable; mostly because he advanced behind the pair of abominations, gaining decent cover.

Well nice of you to run a VL to make up for the a-bomb spam Though I do feel bad for your VL, since the HPA I find to be one of the slowest units in fantasy at this point (after chaos spawn) with the random movement, no ability to march, and no ability to get the gigantic charges that everybody else can pull off. M8 VL on the other hand ...

HawaiiMatt wrote:I wouldn't call him a greater daemon though, he plays more like a daemon prince.

So that means he doesn't get played, right? Though fluff, stat and cost-wise he is certainly much much closer to a greater demon than a prince.

- Salvage

The whole unfamiliarity thing is something I was hoping for with dragon ogres vs. lizardmen (lore of heavens, immune to lightning and it gives me frenzy!). But I would've felt bad if he'd done it and I hadn't told him... and it turns out he knew about it, anyway!

Sounds like some pretty resounding support for going the VL route . I think Wehrkind is on point, too- worst case, it looks awesome on the sidelines, it's actually a really good money-to-points investment so it's worth a shot

Hehe after grinding through all these marauders, if I could take giants as I core I totally would...

Plus, I am a little sad that more fantasy armies don't have big cool stuff running around as much. I am not exactly displeased that the new rules favor big armies that have more of a realistic (sorta) feel of lots of bodies marching and maneuvering, but big vicious beasts are largely absent save for a few builds like DE hydras and HPAs. Having the LORD OF ALL VERMIN! on the table is pleasing