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I must ask: On a scale of 1 - Rage, how much do you hate the new Dark Eldar codex?

I've just finished reading it, and while I admit it's a great looking Codex, I hate the complete way it makes Craftworld Eldar look completely inept by comparison. Hell, in the first fluff page for the Dark Eldar it says 3 TIMES how much better they are than their Craftworld Cousins.

I understand that it's a new Codex so it's going to be good, but the Eldar codex wasn't particularly spectacular when it was redone for 4th Ed and it certainly didn't help that it got this rebalance pretty much right before the rules moved to 5th Ed. Still, that's no excuse for the Dark Eldar doing everything the Eldar do, but better. They don't get psychic powers, but they don't need them! Every unit for the DE looks like they can hold their own and they certainly don't need a Farseer babying them every step of the way.

They can shoot, they can fight, they have close combat weapons that put the fear of god into every conceivable model type out there. They have transports they can assault out of, tanks that can move and fire everything and HQs and special characters that don't break the points bank while still providing near army changing bonuses.

It's just... infuriating and annoying in equal measure. I know there are other armies that have, or claim to have, it worse than Eldar, but that's still no excuse to be shown up as badly as this.

I guess I just wanted to vent more than anything, and to hear what other Eldar players think. Others are welcome to say their views too. I want to hear what everyone thinks.

As a Craftworld Eldar player, lately I've found the bar set somewhat lower than normal when determining whether or not I can admire and respect what GW did with the Codex. It works something like this -


If 'Avatar of Khaine' = Destroyed
then 'Codex' = Dislike

If 'Avatar of Khaine' =/= Destroyed
then 'Codex' = Like


Ok, I kid... mostly...

On a more serious note, I have no real issues with it as a Craftworld Eldar player. It's a Fifth Edition Codex with a more or less natural evolution of what came before into what the game is now. Comparing DE Warriors with Guardian Defenders was a losing proposition in previous editions (as I discovered when I had to play against them in a fairly small game). It makes sense that the DE can jump out of their vehicles - which also happen to be fragile, open-topped death traps that are quite vulnerable to a missile launcher.

As I see it, any issues that CWE might have with the DE aren't really the fault of the DE; rather they're the fault of the current 5th Edition environment and the issues that has caused for the various CWE builds.

DE kinda needed it's awesomeness for being put on the backburner for a good decade or so. In addition it seems kinda ironic how Eldar Players are the ones now complaining about how overpowered their darker cousins are, when pre-5th ed DE players would always complain the opposite.

Perspective..always perspective...

The Eldar codex was designed under the same philosophy that gave us the CSM codex, wherein options were limited and homogenisation was encouraged. The current philosophy seems to be 'make everything cheaper but give them loads of expensive options. Also FNP, FNP everywhere'.

The CSM and Eldar codices share a lot in common. Units lack special rules or options, which makes it easier to tell which units are superior. Hard numeric statlines are easier to mathhammer than situational special rules. Both codices have some very competitive units (fire dragons and plaguemarines, f.ex) but that just means you must take those units if you want to be competitive. Moreso than being boring - this makes you predictable, and I would always rather face an overpowered but predicted unit than the underpowered one I never saw coming and didn't prepare for.

So anyway yeah - the Dark Eldar codex is equal in power to the Eldar codex, but it can be unpredictable to boot. We should get our turn in a year or two.

As for the fluff sections: well yeah! Read all fluff as though it were from the perspective of the codex's army and it will make sense.

Yeah, the DE codex seems to very good, but it's always like that after it's just been released until people find a way to beat it. As, eumerin said they have tanks that they can assault out of, but are easily destoryed. Ours are the complete opposite. So yeah, the DE codex is pretty powerful, but it can be beaten, and perhaps in a year or two, when we get a new codex we'll show em

Yeah I agree about the new dark eldar. It bothers me to the point where I cant even formulate a coherent thought about how disappointed I am that GW trampled the Eldar like that. I guess it bothers me even more because I just invested in about 1500 points worth of Eldar that now arent even worth their weight in soil! Im still going to play them, but I wish that GW didnt bury them alive under the glorified DE villan! They need to amend this mistake and soon -- when was the last time they released any new special characters or models for Eldar other than the Nightspinner/Prism?

I’m really not that impressed with the codex actually. I agree with all statements made about both the chaos and eldar codex (I’m stuck with both right now) but notice that while both those codex’s are bland and just before 5th they remain fairly competitive (I'm not talking SW, or IG, but still).

But now back to the DE codex... it does exactly as it always has the glass hammer. This army is soft as paper, already my lfgs is choked with DE players for the new dex and not one of them has won a game because it is an army with finesse. It has a lot of shiny gimmicks and bobbles but really it’s very balanced and CAN be devastating but only in the right hands (much to my pleasure as most of the neck beards at my shop are already tiring of losing and getting tired of the flavor of the month much quicker than with other dexes muahahaha ).

Really Bolters can kill everything in the army easily barring homunculus creations, their vehicles drop like flies, they have no real way of dealing with dreadnoughts in CC, and for how "awesome" they are in combat... my flesh tearer's make a bloody mess of them early in the game before they get all those gimmicky buffs.

Good codex? Yes. Broken? Hardly. Definitely a sneaky backstabbing tactician’s army.

Now you know how Dark Angel players felt when the Space Marine codex came out.

I feel much better about it now then I felt playing against it as a 3rd edition codex. Everything could have dark lances for ten points, everything cost half as much as a comparable craftworld eldar unit. It was ridiculous playing larger point games against it because they could field more guns then you could have units.
I think it's a bit more balanced and definitely more interesting now. Having a variation beyond dark lance spam and 100 wyches makes me feel much better about playing against them.

How can any of you say this? Dark Eldar are cheaper and better in every way. I fully support the OP.

Full on rage. New craftworld dex please lol

Our aspect warriors rip anything of theres to pieces in CC, our tanks are vastly superior to theirs, we have farseers, Melta guns, Dire avengers can kill there skimmers...

Im just saying, dont let the new codex hype get to you, craftworlders still the level headed big brothers to the DE IMO. If you doubt me put anything you want in that codex up against banshees in HtH let my know how it goes.

The comparison is flawed since they are two different versions. The only comparison that can be drawn between the Eldar and Dark Eldar is that they are essentially the same race. And they have harlequins.

Were the Black Templar players angry about blood angels? Probably, but if you play Eldar why do you care? I am yet to lose a game to DE with my current 1650 Mech Eldar list. They might look superior on paper, but they are still only good, not amazing. Same as the Eldar. Good, slightly over costed, but good.

And the Eldar still rock the best HQ' in the the game at the cheapest cost.

zonino wrote:I've just finished reading it, and while I admit it's a great looking Codex, I hate the complete way it makes Craftworld Eldar look completely inept by comparison. Hell, in the first fluff page for the Dark Eldar it says 3 TIMES how much better they are than their Craftworld Cousins.

Phil Kelly's Mission Accomplished... The Dark Eldar see themselves as above all other life forms, even their fellow misguided Eldar. The fact that the fiction got you so enraged over it shows how well written the Codex is. Bravo Phil!

I understand that it's a new Codex so it's going to be good, but the Eldar codex wasn't particularly spectacular when it was redone for 4th Ed and it certainly didn't help that it got this rebalance pretty much right before the rules moved to 5th Ed. Still, that's no excuse for the Dark Eldar doing everything the Eldar do, but better. They don't get psychic powers, but they don't need them! Every unit for the DE looks like they can hold their own and they certainly don't need a Farseer babying them every step of the way.

Dark Eldar never had psychic powers for the past 12 years, and they don't now. It fits their fluff perfectly. Why so enraged over it now, since it has been this way since 1998?

They can shoot, they can fight, they have close combat weapons that put the fear of god into every conceivable model type out there. They have transports they can assault out of, tanks that can move and fire everything and HQs and special characters that don't break the points bank while still providing near army changing bonuses.

Everything you mentioned here, Dark Eldar has had since 1998. Have you ever picked up the DE codex before this new version? FYI, Dark Eldar HQs, mainly the Archon and Archite, were actually deadlier before... Enjoy the nerfed versions

I guess I just wanted to vent more than anything, and to hear what other Eldar players think. Others are welcome to say their views too. I want to hear what everyone thinks.

So after 12 years, you managed to learn about how broke DE are. Welcome to the Hobby! But don't feel bad, 99% of other 40k players are in the same boat as you, thinking this is all new stuff, when in fact the new DE codex is just a lateral power shift of from the old DE codex. Neither more powerful, nor weaker. One of GW's best written Armies ever.

Commorragh Bless the Dark Eldar!

I agree with the above post.

As an eldar player the only rage I can muster against the new DE is in regard to the classy models.

I first got into the hobby when the previous DE codex came out, and I can remember very similar sentiments (to OP) being expressed around the FLGS then.

Laughing god - um, no, Incubi kill you dead so fast it hurts, wytches hold you up for freaking ages while slowly killing you, and that assumes your aspects get there through the obscene amounts of anti infantry firepower they have....

The new codex is *very* powerful, but like the one before takes a lot more skill than a point and click BA razorspam list.

Why? I am plying very well against them wit my mecheldar as well. 5-0-2 thus far. Mass S6 is reall yhard on them and we have mass S6.

When all of the new codex rant dies out, I suspect that eldar and guard will be the two armies that, when properly leveraged, will hurt them the most.

We have an old dex, we are hurting against most everything, but DE is low on my list of worries.

zonino wrote:I must ask: On a scale of 1 - Rage, how much do you hate the new Dark Eldar codex?

I've just finished reading it, and while I admit it's a great looking Codex, I hate the complete way it makes Craftworld Eldar look completely inept by comparison. Hell, in the first fluff page for the Dark Eldar it says 3 TIMES how much better they are than their Craftworld Cousins.

I understand that it's a new Codex so it's going to be good, but the Eldar codex wasn't particularly spectacular when it was redone for 4th Ed and it certainly didn't help that it got this rebalance pretty much right before the rules moved to 5th Ed. Still, that's no excuse for the Dark Eldar doing everything the Eldar do, but better. They don't get psychic powers, but they don't need them! Every unit for the DE looks like they can hold their own and they certainly don't need a Farseer babying them every step of the way.

They can shoot, they can fight, they have close combat weapons that put the fear of god into every conceivable model type out there. They have transports they can assault out of, tanks that can move and fire everything and HQs and special characters that don't break the points bank while still providing near army changing bonuses.

It's just... infuriating and annoying in equal measure. I know there are other armies that have, or claim to have, it worse than Eldar, but that's still no excuse to be shown up as badly as this.

I guess I just wanted to vent more than anything, and to hear what other Eldar players think. Others are welcome to say their views too. I want to hear what everyone thinks.

Whilst they can shoot/fight, move fast etc I do feel they've balanced this army well. They aren't invincible but used right can be very rewarding. Whilst I do agree some units like guardians are pitiful for Eldar. They most definitely don't have it bad as some codexes out there.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Laughing god - um, no, Incubi kill you dead so fast it hurts, wytches hold you up for freaking ages while slowly killing you, and that assumes your aspects get there through the obscene amounts of anti infantry firepower they have....

The new codex is *very* powerful, but like the one before takes a lot more skill than a point and click BA razorspam list.

Maybe Im missing something but how are Incubi killing my dreads fast? S4 powerweapons arent even touching my furioso's so far...

Laughing God wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Laughing god - um, no, Incubi kill you dead so fast it hurts, wytches hold you up for freaking ages while slowly killing you, and that assumes your aspects get there through the obscene amounts of anti infantry firepower they have....

The new codex is *very* powerful, but like the one before takes a lot more skill than a point and click BA razorspam list.

Maybe Im missing something but how are Incubi killing my dreads fast? S4 powerweapons arent even touching my furioso's so far...

"Kill you dead" I think he meant rather than "kill your dread". Incubi are great at slaying troops and elites.

Laughing God wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Laughing god - um, no, Incubi kill you dead so fast it hurts, wytches hold you up for freaking ages while slowly killing you, and that assumes your aspects get there through the obscene amounts of anti infantry firepower they have....

The new codex is *very* powerful, but like the one before takes a lot more skill than a point and click BA razorspam list.

Maybe Im missing something but how are Incubi killing my dreads fast? S4 powerweapons arent even touching my furioso's so far...

He said Dead not Dread. Incubi are basically Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions rolled into one unit. WS5 S4 2 Attacks I6 power weapons for all unit with a 3+ save and fleet that can be given feel no pain, have transports they can assault out of and a Flamer that, while having low Strength, has AP 3, so it mulches pretty much every Eldar foot unit out there.

Yup, Eldar Aspect warriors could sure take that on!

But then saying that, as I keep getting told and keep forgetting, you shouldn't match like with like when fighting battles. I'm sure Scorpions could mulch up a unit of Kabalite Warriors IF they could get to them through the hail of lance fire, poisoned attacks and high toughness War Machines.

I know that once the Codex hype dies down it won't seem as powerful, but I'd also like to point out 2 issues which are appearing in the same sentence:

"I'm having no trouble beating them with my Mechdar list".

The 2 problems wrong with that are:

1. It's a new codex with new players, give it time and I'm sure there will be a DE answer to Mechdar. They have a lot of choices after all.
2. Well done beating this new codex with the strongest and possibly only viable Eldar list. Now try it with something else and see what happens.

The 2nd point is the main problem I have with Eldar at the moment. Choice... there is none. You either have to have a Mechdar list with a Farseer or you fail. Eldar have so many wonderful looking units and yet nearly 90% of them are useless in most games. Troops can't survive without being in Transports and can bearly shoot at anything. The only good Elite are Fire Dragons which people send off in expensive suicide squads which spits in the face of everything the Eldar codex talks about in regards to the Eldar way of life. All the fast attack is ludicrously overpriced for what it does, and all the best things are in heavy support, or at least would be, but everyone takes Falcons or Fire Prisms anyway.

I'm no arrogant though, I know none of this is the fault of the Dark Eldar codex, it's been this way since even before 5th ed, but that's why it's soo annoying. Not just Eldar, but any other Codex that's out of date is stuck playing a game of catch up, having to wait their turn to go on the rollercoaster of power before they'll get any real changes.* Eldar, Tau, even Necrons all have models already and in the case of the Eldar good looking ones too. Why do any of us have to wait to get a new book? If GW really did love the game they'd balance it a lot better than this.

*(Balance restrictions apply to all apart from Dark Angels, where it pretty much says in their FAQ they can use Codex: Space Marines rules with their own if they want, as long as both sides find it fair).

"Dead" /= "Dread".

Your opponents havent altered their lists yet. Reavers for example mince mechdar.

Our aspect warriors rip anything of theres to pieces in CC, our tanks are vastly superior to theirs, we have farseers, Melta guns, Dire avengers can kill there skimmers...

Im just saying, dont let the new codex hype get to you, craftworlders still the level headed big brothers to the DE IMO. If you doubt me put anything you want in that codex up against banshees in HtH let my know how it goes.

So many people see all the new toys, but dont understand that DE cost essentially the same, still have 10 armor vees, and 3t +5sv models. They are still a one trick pony, with the same one trick that theyve been using the last 10 years.

Ive been reading so many boards talking up the DE, and it really makes me question the average 40k player's ability to judge general army strength.

So what's the problem again?

I love the codex. Craftworld eldar are stupid, they have no place in the 41st millenium.

1

lets face it the only problem DE are having with MechDar is the lack of AP1 Weapons. In CC they can pretty much mop up the toughest aspect warriors. Eldars best bet is still bladestorm

Are DE op or broken, no is there a reason to be jealous ... no ...
IMO Fortune>FNP
stop cryin already OP

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:lets face it the only problem DE are having with MechDar is the lack of AP1 Weapons. In CC they can pretty much mop up the toughest aspect warriors. Eldars best bet is still bladestorm

Are DE op or broken, no is there a reason to be jealous ... no ...
IMO Fortune>FNP
stop cryin already OP

QFT

It is a strong codex, but I don't think it is the absolute powerhouse that many people are thinking it is.

Just like everyone else's, my FLGS has probably a dozen people who threw their old armies in their closets and are on the DE bandwagon.

The pros - Like everyone has said, their shooting is TERRIFYING. I cower at how many poison shots they put out. And they get a lot of lances.

The cons - For them to get anywhere they jump in a paperbag, put up sails, and pray (tanks that get ripped apart by bolter fire are a rough liability).

From the games I have played so far vs DE (between 10-12) they are a force that either tables you or crumbles. The eldar are a little beefier in that respect. They don't have the super punch that DE have, but they are able to last a little longer.

I look forward to responding to DE outrage when the new CWE codex drops.

I love it - been sooo long since the last one and now lots of shiny fluff and new models - all good

I have all other armies/codexes and they all have fluff that says they are the best there is and none can stand against them.

I have not tried my new Dark Eldar against enemies yet but figiure it will be much the same - win some lose some - - many things will die. I might even be able to beat our resident Tau player who kicks ass with regularity

and thats how I like my 40K

rivers64 wrote:How can any of you say this? Dark Eldar are cheaper and better in every way. I fully support the OP.

Not in durability. I'm sorry, did someone say something about armour 12? a closed top vehichal? What a luxury that must be. Troops choices that have 4+ saves? Preposterous! 2+ coversaves? Unheard of! A FOOT list!? how will you hide if you can't kill or tie up everything in one turn? You have twice the number of units with 3+saves then us, and actaully have 4+'s! (scourges dont count) Your transports can hold a heavy weapon and an independant charecter at the same time. There are plenty of hidden advantages to the Craftworld list. And one, big, glaring, yet still kinda hidden disadvantage of the DE 'dex.