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Since Lilith's attacks "ignore armor saves", do they also then disallow FNP from being taken?

FNP cannot be taken against attacks that 'never allow armor saves' while Lilith ignores armor saves. Being ignored doesn't stop you from taking them I guess, just they are ignored. Lilith then neither has a power weapon or 'never allows armor saves to be taken', allowing FNP to be used?

I would probably let the DE player stop FNP rolls with Lilith in a game, but was wondering if my reading of the RAW was correct on this issue?

You can't be serious....

If an attack causes a wound against which an armor save cannot ever be taken, then the model cannot use Feel No Pain.

If an attack causes a wound against which an armor save can sometimes be taken, then the model can use Feel No Pain.

With nothing but logic I would (contra)posit that no FNP rolls can be made on unsaved wounds caused by Lilith.

n.b. i don't have the dark eldar codex to check wording or context...

EDIT: ninja'd by Pratell.

Her entry states her close combat blades count as power weapon(s) so she ignores FNP.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Her entry states her close combat blades count as power weapon(s) so she ignores FNP.

Nowhere in her entry does it say this, I have the codex in front of me right now.

Not arguing how to play it, but I enjoy finding the quirks of codexes and it seems like RAW she would still allow FNP.

No she would not.


Monsterous Creatures are not said to be Power Weapons either, but rather simply don't allow any armor saves.




Obvious Rule is Obvious

Viper217 wrote:Since Lilith's attacks "ignore armor saves", do they also then disallow FNP from being taken?

FNP cannot be taken against attacks that 'never allow armor saves' while Lilith ignores armor saves. Being ignored doesn't stop you from taking them I guess, just they are ignored. Lilith then neither has a power weapon or 'never allows armor saves to be taken', allowing FNP to be used?

I would probably let the DE player stop FNP rolls with Lilith in a game, but was wondering if my reading of the RAW was correct on this issue?

"ignore armor saves" = 'never allow armor saves'

Can an armor save ever be taken against her wounds?
No, so no FNP can be taken from her attacks.

I hate to say this but the OP is technically Correct, all other instances in all other books dis-allow Armor Saves(only cover saves are ever ignored)

Being that the Armor Saves are ignored but not disallowed, you can still attempt them, the outcome just does not matter.

It goes like this(Ruleswise):
Lelith hits with an attack
She wounds
Opponent rolls an armor save(succeeding)
The penetrating Blade kicks in Ignoring the save.

It, however, goes like this(In Practice):
Lelith hits with an attack
She wounds
Opponent applies the wound, not seeing a reason to waste time on the ignored armor save.

I would still play it as preventing FNP; I only posted the above to illustrate that the argument can be given logically.

Main rulebook, page 51, column two, paragraph three, the section titled ASSAULT. "All wounds inflicted in close combat by a monstrous creature ignore armour saves, just like those from a power weapon."

Just doing a quick search on "ignore" in the rulebook (this only includes relevant sections... not stuff like "ignore models in your own unit")

P20 - "The AP rating indicates the armour save the weapon
can ignore"
P20 - "Even if a wound normally ignores all armour saves, an invulnerable saving throw may still be taken"
P29 - "Because template weapons bathe the area in burnin.g fuel, cover saves are ignored when resolving wounds. even by models inside area terrainl"
P39 - "Remember to use different coloured dice or otherwise mark out the wounds that have different special rules attached to them (like those inflicting istant death or those that ignore armour saves), as you would do in the Shooting phase"
P51 - "All wounds inflicted in close combat by a monstrous creature ignore armour saves, just like those from a power weapon."

I think it's pretty apparent that "ignores armor saves" and "doesn't allow armor saves" is pretty synonymous.

Excellent thank you I really didn't want the OP to be right.

As Solkan and others have indicated, the two are synonymous. So no FNP vs. Lilith.