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Man, I want a shot at the dark general too...but I'll be damned if I'll be able to find a way to make Tau comp any lower...

One thing I noticed, and I was surprised that no one has brought it up yet, but there were 0 Space Marine armies there.

I didn't notice that, actually. They have just been eclipsed by the new MEQ dexes which do everything just a little bit better.

Marines are still solid and easily capable of taking a tournament, but Wolves and BA just do it all better.

Only niche basic marines seem to have left is Vulkan, Pedro, and all biker lists. So unless you play one of those styles BA and SW have a lot more to offer

But good catch Blackmoor

But there was an unseemly amount of Chaos Space Marines...

Yeah there were,

6 chaos
5 IG
3 wolves
3 Dark Eldar
3 Blood Angels

Those were the most prevalent armies. Everything else was onsies and twosies.

Chaos was the most prevalent army, which was strange.

There were only two Ork players as well, which was weird, I always expect to see more of the Greenskins as they have such a solid book.

3 Dark Eldar armies out of....30 players?

10% of the players were playing Dark Eldar....bwah ha ha!!!

Reecius: Hmmmm...I always here such interesting things about myself...some are VERY true! I'm quite the jerk power gamer win at all costs guy! LMAO!!! It'll be a fun scrap!

If Bob says you are a good guy then I am sure you are.

Bob also says you are a really good player, so I am sure you are there as well!

We gotta remember that this was only a 30 man tournament, so any generalizations you want to make about the overall tournament scene need to be tempered by that fact.

I will say that it felt like a high percentage of players at this tournament were more of the 'tuned up' style of player who were bringing a tough list first and foremost with other army list considerations (theme, etc) being second. In tournaments with more players I think you tend to get a wider variety of people who are attending with different perspectives on a tournament experience, for example, those who choose their army based on theme first and then build the army after that.

And besides, people often want to play with the new hotness and for Marines, BAs and SWs are just that right now. I have no doubt that a good player could win a tournament using the SM codex and just because there weren't any players at this tournament doesn't suddenly mean the codex has been left in the dust by the BA and SW codices.

At least that's my take on it.

The Marine codex is still fantastic, but I think you can make the case for Wolves that they are mathematically superior to regular marines.

Player skill is more important, but I believe the Wolf "toolbox" so to speak, is superior.

BA's well the jury is still out. I have cooked up a few builds that I think have potential, but I would like to see what people do with them in the tournament scene.

Agreed, BA has yet to be determined. SW has an incredible Heavy Support option and is good all around. SM is still a good codex and has build options that differ from what SW and BA are currently bringing. I don't this SIS2 represented the larger "meta." 6 CSM and 3 DE armies out of 28 armies just means that those are the players that were able to make it those days, not that 18% of the players are playing CSM

No Space marines? I totally shouyld have went. Too bad I was moving into my house. Maybe next year!

asugradinwa wrote:No Space marines? I totally shouyld have went. Too bad I was moving into my house. Maybe next year!

I would have liked more space marines!

C'mon though - just because BA and SW are different chapters...they are STILL space marines.

Yes and no, no thunderfire cannons, outflanking land speeder storms, & twin linked melta in a 30 man field surprises me. compared to last year where I brought my Salamanders, George Mason won with pedro, and I played 2 other games against Space Marines.

Nice job on the best general Dash, you really played well in the wonky scenerios and tailored a list that exploited the lack of missions that took killpoints into account. MSU's for the win!

asugradinwa wrote:Yes and no, no thunderfire cannons, outflanking land speeder storms, & twin linked melta in a 30 man field surprises me. compared to last year where I brought my Salamanders, George Mason won with pedro, and I played 2 other games against Space Marines.

Nice job on the best general Dash, you really played well in the wonky scenerios and tailored a list that exploited the lack of missions that took killpoints into account. MSU's for the win!

Actually, the list wasn't built for this GT it was built to have the best possible chance against mechanized IG. This list is the same list that I use for every tournament and every event at the 2k level and never changes regardless of killpoints, missions or other factors.

Also, the list was built by the most awesome Hulksmash and handed to me. The army was actually also built and painted by Hulksmash and also handed to me. IE, Hulksmash is awesome.

Wow, I'm surprised about that I'd never take that list at 24 killpoints to any tournament that was running normal killpoints, but with only 1 mission out of 5 that had killpoints as a negitive factor for you (and 1 mission that was nearly auto win for you in regards to killpoints) I thought you tailored this list for the slaughter.

My only loss in Conquest Ragnarok was against Mech Eldar in a killpoints mission. Until the new codex gets released killpoints are the Dark Eldar's Achillies Heel.

Dark Eldar do very well in those missions.

That is why 3 of them showed up in a 30 man tournament, and at Adepticon they had 1 with 100+ players.

For what it's worth, having run pretty extensive 40k leagues and tracked records over time in terms of kill point wins/losses vs. # of kill points in armies ... good players with huge #'s of kill points don't tend to lose kill point missions against significantly lower KP armies anyway ... Dash's statement isn't that strange to my ears.

While I agree that a good general can make due with a small gap in killpoints having 10 open topped AR 10 vehicles usually means doom when playing a killpoint game.

Yeah, I'm not trying to make qualitative statements or say that it's "fixed" one way or another ... just basing it off my experience and the stats I've collected over time to back it up. I'm just saying it to back up that he probably didn't tailor his DE to the tournament format.