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Red Comet wrote:

Radiation wrote:

Red Comet wrote:

Radiation wrote:Blood Angels Codex page 23 bud. Read my post that you quoted. Its like a road map to get you there.

I get you now, but look at the rule for the Axe Mortalis. It says its a Power Weapon. It doesn't have extra rules besides that its Mastercrafted and a Power Weapon.

By your example then the Nemesis Hammer in the GK codex should be AP3 because it has its own rules even though it says it follows the rules for Thunder Hammers. The Axe Mortalis is a generic power weapon in its rules even though it has a separate entry. The definition for Unusual Power Weapons is that they have their own set of rules. Does the Axe Mortalis have its own set of rules? Nope, it simply says its a Mastercrafted Power Weapon.

Play it like you want. It seems pretty clear to me. Its almost like it is spelled out. I hope GW FAQ it for AP 2 for both the Axe Mortalis and the Glaives, but I won't hold my breath. Good luck. There is also a similiar entry in Space Marine Codex. So if you can use that to further your arguement then more power to you!

They are Ap2. That's exactly what I am getting at. They aren't unusual. If you want further proof look at the FAQ for Lemartes's Weapon. It has its own unique entry, but its just a generic power maul. It doesn't have any extra bonuses besides USR of being master crafted.

If you want to see an example of a Unusual Power Weapon look at Astorath's weapon. That is definitely an AP3 Melee Weapon because it follows its own distinct rules in CC.

Just my 2 cents but it says on page 61 of the BRB "if a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has"....BANG Master Crafted is a special rule therefor all must be AP3. Lemartes Crozius is only FAQ'd to bring it into line with all marine croziuses/crozyi?!
Here ends this mornings lesson =)

It rends, but its still nothing compared to just ignoring armor and double damge vehicals. Tycho went from meh to WOW!


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ravenwind1984 wrote:

Red Comet wrote:

Radiation wrote:

Red Comet wrote:

Radiation wrote:Blood Angels Codex page 23 bud. Read my post that you quoted. Its like a road map to get you there.

I get you now, but look at the rule for the Axe Mortalis. It says its a Power Weapon. It doesn't have extra rules besides that its Mastercrafted and a Power Weapon.

By your example then the Nemesis Hammer in the GK codex should be AP3 because it has its own rules even though it says it follows the rules for Thunder Hammers. The Axe Mortalis is a generic power weapon in its rules even though it has a separate entry. The definition for Unusual Power Weapons is that they have their own set of rules. Does the Axe Mortalis have its own set of rules? Nope, it simply says its a Mastercrafted Power Weapon.

Play it like you want. It seems pretty clear to me. Its almost like it is spelled out. I hope GW FAQ it for AP 2 for both the Axe Mortalis and the Glaives, but I won't hold my breath. Good luck. There is also a similiar entry in Space Marine Codex. So if you can use that to further your arguement then more power to you!

They are Ap2. That's exactly what I am getting at. They aren't unusual. If you want further proof look at the FAQ for Lemartes's Weapon. It has its own unique entry, but its just a generic power maul. It doesn't have any extra bonuses besides USR of being master crafted.

If you want to see an example of a Unusual Power Weapon look at Astorath's weapon. That is definitely an AP3 Melee Weapon because it follows its own distinct rules in CC.

Just my 2 cents but it says on page 61 of the BRB "if a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has"....BANG Master Crafted is a special rule therefor all must be AP3. Lemartes Crozius is only FAQ'd to bring it into line with all marine croziuses/crozyi?!
Here ends this mornings lesson =)

I really hope your right. Slow Dante = dead Dante. Back in the day we didnt even care about Dante's axe. We could use the inferno pistol in melee. Try to save 3 successful str 8 inferno pistol blasts! I believe the axe at the time was only strength 7 and didnt have the same AP as the pistol. With the current rule set for pistols I imagine the warriors just clubbing the enemy to death with their pistol butt. It certainly lacks realism that you cant fire a pistol point blank but I suppose it would become to overpowered. You would also have to spend less points to build in a close combat attack.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote: With Dante now and Axe bearer and Astorath ( I am not sure what his weapon counts as), their inititive suffers. They are also more expensive.

Astorath's weapon would be an Unusual power weapon.

The problem with assuming that Dante's Weapon isn't an Axe is when you look at Unusual Power Weapon. It says Unique rules not special rules. Also if you look at the sentence for determining what kind of Power Weapon it is you'll see that it says, "No further special rules." I found this wording to be odd why would it have further special rules? Its most likely referring to rules stated after the word Power Weapon.

If you look at all of the Unusual Weapons their "Unique" rules occur after the word power weapon is said. You can't have a Power Weapon Master Crafted, but a Master Crafted Power Weapon. Also if you think about it why would SG not be allowed to take a Master crafted Axe or a Mastercrafted Sword? That's kind of ridiculous that GW would limit our options and not allow for a Power Weapon to be a Master crafted Axe, Mastercrafted sword, etc unless specially laid out in the rules.

Red Comet wrote:The problem with assuming that Dante's Weapon isn't an Axe is when you look at Unusual Power Weapon. It says Unique rules not special rules. Also if you look at the sentence for determining what kind of Power Weapon it is you'll see that it says, "No further special rules." I found this wording to be odd why would it have further special rules? Its most likely referring to rules stated after the word Power Weapon.

If you look at all of the Unusual Weapons their "Unique" rules occur after the word power weapon is said. You can't have a Power Weapon Master Crafted, but a Master Crafted Power Weapon. Also if you think about it why would SG not be allowed to take a Master crafted Axe or a Mastercrafted Sword? That's kind of ridiculous that GW would limit our options and not allow for a Power Weapon to be a Master crafted Axe, Mastercrafted sword, etc unless specially laid out in the rules.

I'm playing it as its a unique power weapon, so no additional bonuses, but I strike at initiative, and if my opponent has a problem with me playing it that, frankly there probably tfg and I have no interest in playing against you and you're gamey bull crap it's a game

Eldercaveman wrote:

Red Comet wrote:The problem with assuming that Dante's Weapon isn't an Axe is when you look at Unusual Power Weapon. It says Unique rules not special rules. Also if you look at the sentence for determining what kind of Power Weapon it is you'll see that it says, "No further special rules." I found this wording to be odd why would it have further special rules? Its most likely referring to rules stated after the word Power Weapon.

If you look at all of the Unusual Weapons their "Unique" rules occur after the word power weapon is said. You can't have a Power Weapon Master Crafted, but a Master Crafted Power Weapon. Also if you think about it why would SG not be allowed to take a Master crafted Axe or a Mastercrafted Sword? That's kind of ridiculous that GW would limit our options and not allow for a Power Weapon to be a Master crafted Axe, Mastercrafted sword, etc unless specially laid out in the rules.

I'm playing it as its a unique power weapon, so no additional bonuses, but I strike at initiative, and if my opponent has a problem with me playing it that, frankly there probably tfg and I have no interest in playing against you and you're gamey bull crap it's a game

You're right, it's a game, play it wrong if you want to. I wish I could pull this sort of thing with my Wolf Priests' power mauls, and if you don't let me then you're obviously tfg

So can I model it as "the sword mortalis" or "the maul mortalis"? And have options? GW needs to clear things up a bit

Eldercaveman wrote:

Red Comet wrote:The problem with assuming that Dante's Weapon isn't an Axe is when you look at Unusual Power Weapon. It says Unique rules not special rules. Also if you look at the sentence for determining what kind of Power Weapon it is you'll see that it says, "No further special rules." I found this wording to be odd why would it have further special rules? Its most likely referring to rules stated after the word Power Weapon.

If you look at all of the Unusual Weapons their "Unique" rules occur after the word power weapon is said. You can't have a Power Weapon Master Crafted, but a Master Crafted Power Weapon. Also if you think about it why would SG not be allowed to take a Master crafted Axe or a Mastercrafted Sword? That's kind of ridiculous that GW would limit our options and not allow for a Power Weapon to be a Master crafted Axe, Mastercrafted sword, etc unless specially laid out in the rules.

I'm playing it as its a unique power weapon, so no additional bonuses, but I strike at initiative, and if my opponent has a problem with me playing it that, frankly there probably tfg and I have no interest in playing against you and you're gamey bull crap it's a game

I could care less, but aren't you the TFG for playing it in a way that is advantageous to your standards?

I dont really think Dante having an axe is too bad, he has 2+/4++, most weapons that goes before him is AP3 or worse. Having a AP2 melee weapon is pretty good.
If you see a powerfist sergeant, have a unit leader with LC or PW challenge the guy.

I don't think it being ap2 is a bad thing. I don't play competitively, im a beer and take out player. So untill we get an FAQ to outright it as one thing, I don't see how my interpretation is a problem. I see it as making more sense from a fluff point of view. Blood angels are famed for there speed and ferocious nature, having Dante striking slowly just doesn't make sense.

Ok, I played my defensive BA list and it did really well. I'm working on a battle report on it now and will link it as soon as I get it done.

After playing that game and getting the feel of 6th I realize just how many options have opened up for us. HQ's and troops we wouldn't have normally run in 5th now seem like the best way to go.

So what has everyone else found so far?

Tycho worked really well for with his 2+ armor and attack that ignores armor.

The Tac marines make great defensive units.

DC are just ridiculous on the charge.

Spoiler for the battle report. Bolters are our friends! And Vehicles tend to leave the board rather quickly.

Excited to read it, friend!

Eldercaveman wrote:I don't think it being ap2 is a bad thing. I don't play competitively, im a beer and take out player. So untill we get an FAQ to outright it as one thing, I don't see how my interpretation is a problem. I see it as making more sense from a fluff point of view. Blood angels are famed for there speed and ferocious nature, having Dante striking slowly just doesn't make sense.

And just how I wish Dante was Eternal Warrior, but unfortunately he's really old. =(

Considering Dante has visions of a golden armored warrior (himself) standing before / defending the golden throne at the end of time, you would think he was an eternal warrior

Titan Atlas wrote:Excited to read it, friend!

Yep! Give us the list and battle report

Assuming it's the same defensive list he posted earlier, it should be linked and written in the OP of this thread.

If you look at the list you'll notice my edits. I did change the list up at the last minute but stayed with the same defensive idea. I'm working up some Vassal screen shots to accompany my BatRep so it will probably be finished by tomorrow night.

oh yeah, I fixed that, thanks for pointing that out.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:So can I model it as "the sword mortalis" or "the maul mortalis"? And have options? GW needs to clear things up a bit

I don't think so. Dante's entry in the Codex specifically says 'Axe.' The folks who have options are listed as 'power weapon,' a generic listing.

lmao I don't know how many times this has been discussed anymore...

I'm late to the parade, but I realized that Eldar are Allies of Convenience. People keep saying that they cannot score objectives...where does it say they can't when for desperate allies it says that then the enemy units are non scoring and non denial, but doesn't mention it before?

Also if I run Eldar allies I was thinking of not running a Librarian in my main force, but instead maybe a combat character like a Reclusiarch or Captain because of Runes of Warding. Thoughts?

Battle Report up.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/462333.page#4527296

Thanks! Seems pretty legit. I hadn't realized up until recently just how much more valuable Tycho has become, and the more I think about it, DC Tycho could be really interesting now that you can fully control him, and can probably make good use of him for challenges, supporting another unit in the same close combat and possibly taking on a good variety of enemies and having a good chance of pulling through.

Too bad he's still not an IC so he'll die with ease.

Actually, not really, as he can issue a challenge, has a possibility to survive and yet on the charge can dish out an unsaved wound or two (with six attacks, not bad) and it's not like I'd send him in alone, either. I'd honestly consider sending him in jointly with a strong unit against whatever I see fit, and he challenges the character leading that unit and my other guys run in and crush them.

I'm not sure how often I'd use him, but I do think that he's now worth a try and seeing what can be done using him.

Yeah but the strong unit doesn't really need him is the thing, they'd be doing just as much damage without him. Meanwhile, he's 175 points that can be killed by 1 lascannon and/or a squad of Tac Marines focus-firing him.

I have to agree with Andilus. True he has a 2+ armor and 4+ invul but 1 lascannon will kill him. He needs to have padding with troops in front.

eh what does he know...filthy space wolf player


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I know, I get it, but he does seem kinda fun is all. Regular Tycho works just fine as well, obviously, and can join a unit. The main thing about DC Tycho that appeals to me now is his added bonus attacks, increased WS and still having I5, which is awesome. But even regular Tycho will be interesting to watch, that's for sure ^_^

Quick question about red thirst:

The FAQ says an independent character that has succumbed to the red thirst cannot join a non red thirst unit. That's really only relevant once the game is underway right? If an IC is deployed with a unit, they still do the red thirst roll with a single dice right?

For example:

My librarian is deployed with a squad of assault marines. I roll a 1 on the dice and BOTH the libby and assault squad are treated as having red thirst since they're a unit at the time I roll the dice.

Later in the game, the libby splits from the squad but cannot join my other assault squad due to it not having the red thirst.

It wasn't changed so those units roll them separately initially right?

From page 4:

Red Comet wrote:I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.

So under this interpretation you roll once and the result applies to both the unit and librarian.