Astra Militarum General queries Thread UPDATE: 20/4/2014

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**nosferatu1001**

Yes, that is one way to get rerolls.

**Hollismason**

So he would reroll just wounds correct not to hit?

**nosferatu1001**

Reroll scatter and 1s to wound.

**Hollismason**

I thought preferred only worked if you rolled a one? The scatter dice doesn't have a one on it? So I'd just be rerolling wounds of 1 correct?

**Unit1126PLL**

Hollismason wrote:
I thought preferred only worked if you rolled a one? The scatter dice doesn't have a one on it? So I'd just be rerolling wounds of 1 correct?

Read the rules for Blast Weapons and Re-Rolls to Hit.

**Hollismason**

Yeah but i only get to reroll ones. So why would I want to reroll 1s on my scatter dice for distance?

Also read this on BOLS, what the hell where is this stated?

Wyrdvane Psykers

The new Combat Psyker Squad with a name to match their shiny new rules. They're fairly much the same as before except oh-so-much-better. Thanks to the writer(s) of this codex, you can now take a different psykic power from Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, and Telekinesis one for each individual psyker in the unit.

That plethora alone makes them powerful. If you have players that love to use as much psykic power as possible, then expect to see these on the battlefield much more often.

Um I do not see how that possibly can be true and have not seen it mentioned anywhere?

**Kommissar Kel**

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah but i only get to reroll ones. So why would I want to reroll 1s on my scatter dice for distance?

Also read this on BOLS, what the hell where is this stated?

Under Blasts in the special rules section of the brb, sub heading Blasts and rerolls.

You have the ability(Albeit an ability with a condition) to re-roll. A SM Tactical squad that fires a Plasma Cannon during a turn in which Tactical Doctrines is used is the exact same situation(model in question only re-rolls failed to hits)

An Ability with a condition is fine.

Conditional Abilities(You are only granted the ability to reroll under certain conditions) the rely on a to-hit effect are not. Please not that conditional abilities based on other factors are just fine so long as the condition is met(Preferred enemy while firing at them, Activating an ability that allows for re-rolls, etc)

Wyrdvane Psykers

The new Combat Psyker Squad with a name to match their shiny new rules. They're fairly much the same as before except oh-so-much-better. Thanks to the writer(s) of this codex, you can now take a different psykic power from Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, and Telekinesis one for each individual psyker in the unit.

That plethora alone makes them powerful. If you have players that love to use as much psykic power as possible, then expect to see these on the battlefield much more often.

Um I do not see how that possibly can be true and have not seen it mentioned anywhere?

Brotherhood of psykers rule has this one covered; 1 Power for the unit.(Each individual psyker is not ML1, so cannot have any powers that cost a warp charge of 1+ since they are all higher than the ML)

**TheKbob**

I didn't see this post and made another question elsewhere, but the Preferred Enemy gives no right to reroll blasts. I don't have my codex handy, so you're going to have to quote a rule... because you cannot reroll scatter dice because you cannot roll a one.

**Hollismason**

The path of darkness this leads to

**TheKbob**

Hollismason wrote:
The path of darkness this leads to

Yep, after a brief net search, there is no singular voice on "What's Correct" in this situation meaning house rule. Add this to the topic of items that needs FAQ'd.

**Tactical_Genius**

@TheKbob - I did a thread on this... I believe on the second page of YMDC... reasonably definite answer.

**Kommissar Kel**

TheKbob wrote:
I didn't see this post and made another question elsewhere, but the Preferred Enemy gives no right to reroll blasts. I don't have my codex handy, so you're going to have to quote a rule... because you cannot reroll scatter dice because you cannot roll a one.

Preferred enemy is a Conditional ability to re-roll with Conditions.

The Conditional portion: you must be shooting at a unit from you Preffered enemy Codex.

The With Conditions: You have tro roll a 1.

Now on to the With conditions portion: guess what similar or the same exists for Every single ability to re-roll; You must eith miss your to-hit roll(a roll you do not make), or Roll a 1 on your to-hit roll(again a roll you do not make). Twin Linked is the only rule that has specific provisions for re-rolling Blasts, So we must accept that the ability to re-roll at all(No matter the required conditions on re-rolling) allows you re-roll scatter, or the entire rules under Blasts means nothing at all.

**TheKbob**

No need to have the discussion. Until FAQd, I'm in the no, you can't camp.

And I'm not alone:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282988-blast-markers-and-rerolls-to-hit-of-a-set-dice-score/

It makes logical sense without stopping rerolls from Prescience, Twin-linked, etc.

It's something I'd discuss with my opponent as it seems quite the hard split of crowds on yes or no. Or follow the "most fun rule" or w/e and dice off.

**Kommissar Kel**

TheKbob wrote:
No need to have the discussion. Until FAQd, I'm in the no, you can't camp.

And I'm not alone:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282988-blast-markers-and-rerolls-to-hit-of-a-set-dice-score/

It makes logical sense without stopping rerolls from Prescience, Twin-linked, etc.

It's something I'd discuss with my opponent as it seems quite the hard split of crowds on yes or no. Or follow the "most fun rule" or w/e and dice off.

Master Crafted always allows Rerolls, it is one of the only rules that cannot be argued with Re4-rolls and blasts.

Twin-linked has specific rules for Blasts.

just About every other re-roll requires a failed to hit.

Would you allow such an ability to re-roll Scatter?

And Dam13n's entire post has absolutely no basis in rules.

**TheKbob**

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Master Crafted always allows Rerolls, it is one of the only rules that cannot be argued with Re4-rolls and blasts.

Twin-linked has specific rules for Blasts.

just About every other re-roll requires a failed to hit.

Would you allow such an ability to re-roll Scatter?

And Dam13n's entire post has absolutely no basis in rules.

Trust me, I understand where you are coming from. Twin-linked, Prescience, and a few special rules allow for flat our rerolls. Situational rerolls are "more advanced rules" per the BRB, they take precedent. Therefore a model that has "rerolls on to hit rolls of 1", if say BS3, doesn't have the ability to reroll on a hit roll of 2 or 3. For BS6, if you *pew* *pew* you always have a reroll built in because of how BS works. Don't be so reductive and think through the logic of the scenario.

Again, no reason to argue. It requires a FAQ based on two equally valid lexical interpretations; it's purely game mechanic based disagreement with no "fluffy" circumstance or "case law" (previous FAQ) that clears it up. Thus it's basically a house rule item with no conclusion at this point. You can feel you're right either way. I don't feel an intent here, unlike something from earlier disputes like bouncing FMCs or Necron Nightscythes w/ passengers during explosions.

So until then, hug it out with your opponent or dice off.

**Kommissar Kel**

BS 6+ does NOT always have the ability to re-roll; It only gains the ability to re-roll when a 1 is rolled To-hit.

This is why there is a distinction between Conditional re-rolls(the ability to re-roll only when certain conditions are met, Like shooting at a preferred enemy unit as opposed to shooting at a unit from any other Codex), and re-rolls with a condition(Like a Tactical squad with an activated UM Tactical Doctrines, or any other "Re-roll Failed To-Hit" abilities).

**Mavnas**

ClockworkZion wrote:
So this came up over in Natfka's comment section in a recent article and I want to explain why it's wrong and doesn't work just to get it out there.

The idea was using Power of the Machine Spirit on a Leman Russ in a unit with a Tank Commander then using the "Gunners, Kill on Sight" order the TC has to fire at three targets.

Firstly it doesn't work because of a sequence of events issue comes up: namely (as per the first paragraph on page 28) Orders are issued and completely resolved "at the start of the Shooting Phase", the Engineseer meanwhile has to forgo a Shooting Attack to use his ability to Awaken the Machine Spirit, which means he goes at a later point during the same phase.

Secondly there is the issue of of how shooting attacks are resolved, namely (as per page 12 of the core rulebook) you must complete the sequence of nominating a unit to shoot, choosing a target, rolling to hit, wound and then allocating wounds and removing casualties before any other unit can do anything. So you can't shoot the commander's tank then use Awaken the Machine Spirit then shoot the other two tanks.

So basically, if your Tank Commander is issuing Orders the Engineseer can't Awaken Machine Spirit on the unit (well he CAN but it does nothing, they've already completed their shooting attack, so just have him restore a hull point instead) and the fact that I had to point out both of these facts to more than one person made me feel it was worth addressing in full here just in case.

I had come to the same conclusion, but this does raise a further point: suppose the Engineseer is hidden in a blob that received the order to shoot before the tank commander gave his order. Can he then forego his shooting and awaken the machine spirit in time to achieve the three way firing split?

**Kommissar Kel**

All the shooting orders are "must make a shooting attack" If the Enginseer is not shooting he is breaking the rules(Must trumps may or can).

**Mavnas**

So putting him in a unit that will receive shooting orders as even worse then. Then you can't even use him as a fallback if the TC's order failed.

**TheKbob**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
BS 6+ does NOT always have the ability to re-roll; It only gains the ability to re-roll when a 1 is rolled To-hit.

This is why there is a distinction between Conditional re-rolls(the ability to re-roll only when certain conditions are met, Like shooting at a preferred enemy unit as opposed to shooting at a unit from any other Codex), and re-rolls with a condition(Like a Tactical squad with an activated UM Tactical Doctrines, or any other "Re-roll Failed To-Hit" abilities).

I get what you're saying, but you're not also getting what I'm saying either. No, BS6, as captured specifically in the re-roll part of the rules, is an "always on" distinction and activates when you miss. It just so happens that you only miss with a dice roll of one.

Preferred Enemy, however, only happens specifically on a dice role of 1. Meaning BS3 guy has no reroll ability if he rolled a 2 or 3 to hit. An Ork with Preferred Enemy doesn't gain a reroll on a 2, 3, 4. A snipfiring model doesn't get to reroll on a 2, 3, 4, or 5. So, by design, it's a very specific type of reroll, making it unique. Unique trumps general within the lovely GW ruleset. Thus, to gain a reroll from it, you must roll a one. Since scatter weapons can never roll a one (nor would you want to reroll it), you do not have a reroll at all.

We're agreeing there are conditional rerolls. I just see the rules plainly not allowing them to reroll blast weapons unless the conditions are met. If the conditions may never be met, then you never get the reroll. Maybe they do intend for you to reroll blast weapons with PE, but until they FAQ it, it's clear as mud. And I'm leaning towards "No" becing the answer, should they ever actually FAQ the game again. Until now, it's how are you going to play it locally. Just another to add to the pile.

**Hollismason**

There's literally another thread for that argument.

I'm still curious as to where in the world this Wyrdvane thing came from?

**ClockworkZion**

Hollismason wrote:
There's literally another thread for that argument.

I'm still curious as to where in the world this Wyrdvane thing came from?

BoLS started it. The person's interpretation of the rule has been withdrawn and smacked down in the forums there (part of the reason they were arguing -for- the Wyrdvanes to all each have their own powers because it was "more interesting").

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And even Natfka disagreed with the BoLS interpretation: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/04/wyrdvane-psykers-and-late-night.html?m=1

**TheKbob**

I think he meant mine on the PE + Blast thing?

It's fine, I will agree to disagree on it. I'll have to look into this psyker thing. If only we had a place to go where we could get answers for these issues day one...

**Scipio Africanus**

We can't answer the rerolls of 1 and blast question and this is not the thread for it.

That argument has already been had and has not been resolved. Let's leave it at that.

If you want an easy house rule answer, paint a One on ONE of the four scatter symbols on the scatter dice. If you roll that facing, you may reroll with preferred enemy and other rolls that let you reroll ones.

**ClockworkZion**

TheKbob wrote:
I think he meant mine on the PE + Blast thing?

It's fine, I will agree to disagree on it. I'll have to look into this psyker thing. If only we had a place to go where we could get answers for these issues day one...

The Psyker thing is a mess to read but it starts here: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?44130-Astra-Militarum-Imperial-Guard-A-Comprehensive-Review-amp-Comparison just scroll down to where it says "Wyrdvane Psykers" then watch the several page arguement unfold as a single person tries to tell the rest of the internet that they're the ones who aren't doing it right.

**Zengu**

Sorry if I missed this already. If Pask is my warlord and he has another tank with him and pask is killed does my opponent get slain warlord then or does he have to kill the whole squad like the CCS? Also can you do look out sir with tanks since pask is a chacter?.....

**ClockworkZion**

Zengu wrote:
Sorry if I missed this already. If Pask is my warlord and he has another tank with him and pask is killed does my opponent get slain warlord then or does he have to kill the whole squad like the CCS? Also can you do look out sir with tanks since pask is a chacter?.....

Slay the Warlord only applies to the model who is your Warlord being dead at the end of the game AFAIK, but I'm willing to be wrong on that.

First Blood, on the other hand, I know needs to see a whole unit die.

**nosferatu1001**

Zengu wrote:
Sorry if I missed this already. If Pask is my warlord and he has another tank with him and pask is killed does my opponent get slain warlord then or does he have to kill the whole squad like the CCS? Also can you do look out sir with tanks since pask is a chacter?.....

Pask, the Character, is the warord. Killing him gains slay the warlord but NOT first blood

The CCS has a character in it - the officer - who is the warlord. You do not need to kill the CCS to gain the StW point, JUST the officer

**Scipio Africanus**

ClockworkZion wrote:
TheKbob wrote:
I think he meant mine on the PE + Blast thing?

It's fine, I will agree to disagree on it. I'll have to look into this psyker thing. If only we had a place to go where we could get answers for these issues day one...

The Psyker thing is a mess to read but it starts here: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?44130-Astra-Militarum-Imperial-Guard-A-Comprehensive-Review-amp-Comparison just scroll down to where it says "Wyrdvane Psykers" then watch the several page arguement unfold as a single person tries to tell the rest of the internet that they're the ones who aren't doing it right.

He's right you know. And ADLs give 3+ cover, and spehs marheens can't shoot if they're wearing helmets.

**ClockworkZion**

Scipio Africanus wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
TheKbob wrote:
I think he meant mine on the PE + Blast thing?

It's fine, I will agree to disagree on it. I'll have to look into this psyker thing. If only we had a place to go where we could get answers for these issues day one...

The Psyker thing is a mess to read but it starts here: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?44130-Astra-Militarum-Imperial-Guard-A-Comprehensive-Review-amp-Comparison just scroll down to where it says "Wyrdvane Psykers" then watch the several page arguement unfold as a single person tries to tell the rest of the internet that they're the ones who aren't doing it right.

He's right you know. And ADLs give 3+ cover, and spehs marheens can't shoot if they're wearing helmets.

His initial argument was based on the fact that they're called Psykers by name (as if the name, and not the Special rule is what makes a model a Psyker) and then changed to how arguing the use of "their" in the rule after that got shot down. And then when he gives up he said he was arguing it because it was "more interesting". That's not "right" as much as that is abusing language to try and make things mean things that they shouldn't.