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 Amishprn86 wrote:


To me its clear they are just trying to sell Court models, but sadly no one buys them, literally everyone 3rd party them due to they are 3-5$ and better material, vs 16$+ for a single gakky failcast model.

The problem with the court models is their price, they're sold as individual models which means that even a small unit of 5 dudes becomes the most expensive unit in terms of money of the entire drukhari catalogue. Same for the beasts.

GW should make new plastic kits for drukhari, one with the court, one with the beast and a 3 man unit of grotesques.

About CA I agree that problems weren't fixed but pretty much all the armies that don't have a codex and desperately need massive points reductions (who said orks?) received only some little bonus with that book, except maybe SW which were almost unplayable before, to be honest.

Medusae are pretty decent on paper for their cost now. In practice probably not so much unless you're already playing an in-your-face army. Not bad to put them with your Archon tax in a Venom to evaporate some Toughness 3 units though.

Just a question about Scourges. I love the models but I dont see them taking the spot of a flyer or a ravager because of durability or am I missing something?

They are good b.c you can DS them and still have 4 lances on the table, or place them in cover ( high up due to fly) and gain cover or keep them out of LoS.

Many like them, i perfect to just take another Ravager.

The alternative mode is no weapons and just use them as a cheap 70pt Jump anti-infantry unit. But i personally would use Corsairs for that, they are in almost everyway better (until the DE codex comes out).

So, what does d eldar have that works? Kabal in boats? As many lances as possible and venoms vs horde?

What about bikes? I was making some back in 5th.

 Niiai wrote:
So, what does d eldar have that works? Kabal in boats? As many lances as possible and venoms vs horde?

What about bikes? I was making some back in 5th.

Vehicles, Mandrakes, flyers, scourges, incubi, kabals, and thats about it. Edit: Beasts can be ok, they are good bubble wrap, but people just been using Kabals for that as well.

Reavers are literally the WORST bike unit in the game atm (maybe the worst out of every edition). They are 30pts for a Splinter Rifle 2W biker with Drugs. Let me repeat that, they cost the same as Shiny Spears and only comes with a Splinter Rifle.

Damit. Painting those bikes where my pride and joy before i stoped playing.

Mandrakes are good, that is a first.

How are hq? Blaster arcons?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: What abou trueborn?

Edit: The webway portal stratagem looks nice with trueborn to deliver blasters, as an alternative to the old venom delivery. Are there anybother units good in a webway? Scourges has their own delivery system.

So the general army loads up on lances and splinter cannons. But if we meet IG our splinter weapons betray us. So we need some form of cheap melee unit to cut through them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok. I came up with a list based on what i used to play before and what I think I can buy. (Namly the razorwing flocks.)

Trueborn arrive via web portal stratagem. The rest rides in transports. But some things I do not like:

1. I have no place to put my arcons.
2. I only have 7 vehicles. They will die fast.
3. The list is good on lances and blasters I think, but light on anti infantery.
4. Gunlines, particularly IG eats me alive.
5. Should i take disintegrators? All my lances are glued on.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [95 PL, 1993pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL, 155pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

Ravager [8 PL, 155pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

Ravager [8 PL, 155pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL, 115pts]: Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL, 115pts]: Dark Lance

Venom [4 PL, 95pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 95pts]: Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [5 PL, 105pts]
. 7x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [5 PL, 105pts]
. 7x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Clawed Fiends [10 PL, 192pts]: 6x Clawed Fiend

Razorwing Flocks [4 PL, 168pts]: 12x Razorwing flock

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 73pts]: Agoniser, Blaster

Archon [4 PL, 79pts]: Blaster, Huskblade

+ Elites +

Beastmaster [3 PL, 56pts]: Beastmaster's scourge

Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL, 115pts]
. Dracon: Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster

Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL, 115pts]
. Dracon: Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster

++ Total: [95 PL, 1993pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lol. Just reqlised 8th edition allows 2 5 man units with blasters inside raiders. Hitting on 3's is better then hitting on 4 when moving.

Has somebody done math on 5 warriors in a venom or 2 5 warriors in a raider?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about scoruges with poison vs venoms?

Edit: Something like this at 2000. 2 raiders with 2 warrior squads. 2 with a squad and 1 and 2 arcons. Trueborn in webways. Unfortunetly i only have the scourges and razorwings as anti infantery.

On the pluss sise i have 13 dark lances, 17 blasters. Only 4 splintercanons. :( No venoms.


++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [101 PL, 1990pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL, 155pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

Ravager [8 PL, 155pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

Ravager [8 PL, 155pts]: Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL, 115pts]: Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL, 115pts]: Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL, 115pts]: Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL, 115pts]: Dark Lance

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Razorwing Flocks [2 PL, 56pts]: 4x Razorwing flock

Razorwing Flocks [2 PL, 56pts]: 4x Razorwing flock

Scourges [6 PL, 130pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 79pts]: Blaster, Huskblade

Archon [4 PL, 79pts]: Blaster, Huskblade

Archon [4 PL, 79pts]: Blaster, Huskblade

+ Elites +

Beastmaster [3 PL, 56pts]: Beastmaster's scourge

Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL, 115pts]
. Dracon: Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster

Kabalite Trueborn [5 PL, 115pts]
. Dracon: Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn with Special Weapon: Blaster

++ Total: [101 PL, 1990pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

DE HQ's are.. bad, Take Archon if you want cheap WL, and Haemonculus can do extra damage to Psychers.

The WWP isnt very good for DE, its leaps and bounds better on CWE/Quins. A few good units for them are Incubi and Wyches. Incubi to kill, Wyches to tie units/tank up. Sadly Beasts dont have PFP but you can still use them with WWP, just dont expect as much out of them. Finally you could use them as a character or elite sniping unit of trueborn with blasters, just know that very costly unit will die instantly.

Blasters are extremely over priced, but they add some punch, they need to be around 7-9pts at least. Same for Shredders, they need to be around 2pts.

About Venoms adn poison, over at thedarkcity, its a 50/50 split as to if venoms are good or bad. They are cheaper than Raiders and only a little bit less survivable. The problem is they dont have any punch at all. Poison in 8th isnt good, especially when you dont have AP or re-rolls.

Posion is meant for higher Toughness targets, but with Blasters and Lances and Str/Toughness chart changes along with large amounts of wounds, and those weapons does multi damage, Poison isnt needed for that roll anymore, but it also is bad against Infantry due to they are T3 or T4 and you still need 4's to wounds and no AP or large amounts of shots. But many like them Over the Raider b.c you can get more on the table and Ravagers are better PFP for Lances than Raiders. Its a good argument for sure.

Scourges are great with DL's and you can keep them cheap with poison, both are fine.

And this is why Mandrakes became good, they can DS, are -1 5++ to hit. They shoot 2 S4 with AP and a chance to add MW's, they have PFP aswell, meaning you could get a charge much easier.


DE has all the units and tools to be an AMAZING codex. Its only problem is Points and some rules needs to change (Like Court body rules, Talos weapons, and Reavers in general). It has huge potential even within the Coven, then you have Beasts, Court, etc... just so many units and options. GW doesnt seem to know how to balance it all or what role some units are taking.

Is the blaster so overpriced? Looks like a good weapon profile as ever.

Has anybody tryed an all infantery army? It seems possible. All our opponents anti tank weapons will be wasted, bar perhaps sole razorwing flocks.

Beastmasters with razorwing flock and mandrakes are anti infantery. Perhaps scourges also.

Trueborn blasters, trueborn lances, scourges lances is our anti tank. With 8th edition it is easy enough to replicate good units.

Blasters are 15pts for an extra 6" over melta, but is only D3 damage, and can never get 2d3 (or melta 2d6), so your paying the same for an extra 1/3 the range but 1/2 the damage. They need to be around 8pts. I would play more of them at 10pts for sure. but 15? Man thats a high price for a range D3 item.

Edit: I'd rather have a Fusion gun is all i'm saying for the same cost. You should look at Blast Pistols compare to a FP DE are always more costly than all other Aeldari for some reason.

While i agree that melta sounds nice, blasters have been the DE way for a long time. We can fire it off DS or open topped transports. It is no -1 to hit. If it was cheaper by 7 points you save 117 points of around 17 of them. While that is nice, it cqn be midigated by having good unit choises.

I can't talk about the other eldar, but it is snug enough for us.

what is the opiniin on the haywire guns?

Its was good in the past bc it was same damage as a Lance, now its literally 1/2 the damage.

Yeah its open top but so are Quins, they get a Melta pistol for 1 pt cheaper, literally a Blast Pistol is same stats for 10pts BUT without the D6 and melta rule.

Then you have SOB,.... they get Open top rhinos with 5 Melta guns in a unit that can Scout with the Rhino. Literally SOB is just a Better DE army lol.

Also looking at Eldar, they can have FD just start in an impossible to kill vehicle then get out w/e they wont to get a key vehicle killed. Or DS them, or etc.. you get it. Just b.c we have Open top doesnt mean we should magically have worst weapons. We already pay WAY more for our vehicles b.c of that open top and fly.

Another example, look at a Starweaver compare to a Venom......

I dont want this to be a QQ (mostly b.c its ian Index and whent he codex comes out this all will be changed/fixed) post so some good posts. The Reaper is also a viable options instead of Ravager, (its the FW Ravager) it also is able to gain the +1T buff from an Haemonculus, I've been running 1 and thinking about running 2, yes they have -1 to hit if they move due to Heavy weapon, but it also is D6 shots and has a 2nd mod to shoot. I personally am liking them more and more.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add, i've been thinking the opposite and do ALL vehicles lol. I need to test it out, but i've been practicing for Adepticon, once thats over i'll try it.

Spear Head Deatchments (2)

Haemonulus < WWP
Haemonulus < WWP
Reaper
Reaper
Ravager x3 DL
Ravager x3 DL
Ravager x3 Dis Can
Ravager x3 Dis Can
Venom x1 SC
Venom x1 SC
Venom x1 SC
Venom x2 SC
Venom x2 SC
Venom x2 SC
Void Bomber Scythes
Void Bomber Lances

I honestly dont like more than 2 Flyers and i much prefer the Bomber, for 14pts it does way more damage for me. Venoms are just for more shots, and to charge close to keep the better vehicles alive or tie up some units, 1 Lance bomber for T8 models.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Blasters are 15pts for an extra 6" over melta, but is only D3 damage, and can never get 2d3 (or melta 2d6), so your paying the same for an extra 1/3 the range but 1/2 the damage. They need to be around 8pts. I would play more of them at 10pts for sure. but 15? Man thats a high price for a range D3 item.

Edit: I'd rather have a Fusion gun is all i'm saying for the same cost. You should look at Blast Pistols compare to a FP DE are always more costly than all other Aeldari for some reason.

I'll admit blasters either need a points reduction down to like 10 pts or they need to fire twice.

I'm going to ignore both shredders and haywire blasters as both are garbage right now.

For scourge the go to build now for me is dark lances in 10 scourge units and throwing them in cover. Most things that kill them quickly are close ranged so they tend to last longer with extra dudes. It's not always the case but it helps.

Heat lances are way over-costed. Honestly i'm unsure what to think about them. You have to be in half range to get their actual use out of them. Which is suicide range. They are absolute garbage vs anything above toughness 6 but preferably you only face things at toughness 5 or lower. This generally means they should be used vs bikes, terminators, mini-monster type units (hive guard and similar) and other similar units esp. if they have FnP (wulfen and death guard being good examples). Problem being it's suicide range and some of those units either have 2-3 wounds max and usually you don't need the 2d6 roll take the highest with it. The only other possible use heat lances might have is character killing if you can somehow make it that far.

In many ways i actually feel like the heat lance is inferior to both blasters and dark lances. With blasters they have the same range but better strength and just about anything you can reliably wound with a heat lance you can wound with a blaster. Blasters also tend to do anti-heavy infantry far better and for far cheaper. With dark lances it's still cheaper and you have a -1 to hit on DS and if you move but it's a reasonably safe range and you still get good strength for d6 wounds. Barring the crappy damage rolls that are all too common with dark lances and they're one of the best heavy weapons we've got. Strange how 8th made dark lances good.

-----------

I had a game on saturday vs nids which i won but i might add that later so it doesn't turn into a wall of text. First 3 turns looked like i'd lose but i made some good choices. DS'ing most of my army to face only a small bit of her's was a good idea because i only faced a bit of her army at a time usually. Also it was good i killed her anti-infantry units at one point because my mainly scourge army just wiped the floor with everything else she had left. The reason for that being they were all monsters or hive guard if i recall.

Yeah DL Scourges are nice. I've trying to not swap any weapons out atm (even tho i have almost every unit combination you can think of) the codex is going to completely change everything.

But at least DL Scourges will always be nice, they are guaranteed to survive at least one turn. I have 3 Units of Scourges, 1 Blaster, 1 DL's and 1 HL's. The only HL used to be good .

I think bloodbrides can be ok since you can DS them now close to the enemy. It's still tough though as one guy has a guard army that nearly tabled me in 2 turns and consider i went first. Yeah that's right.

I'm thinking multi-charge with bloodbrides with some units pinning them down first and absorbing overwatch would be good. With the roll-off i should force at least one of the guard squads to stay in combat and that means it can't be shot at. Hopefully could make it into the tanks the very next turn. It'd require a hell of a lot of luck that's for sure. Sadly vs that guy's guard army i might be forced to try turn one charges esp. if i go 2nd. I might not have a lot left otherwise. I still think i'd lose to his guard army but it's worth a shot.

Actually now that i think about it a turn 1 charge probably couldn't happen. I wouldn't have the units available to take overwatch for the bloodbrides. I'd probably be forced to do one unit of grotesques and another of just bloodbrides which actually could probably work.

Ugh it's tough but i might come up with something.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I think bloodbrides can be ok since you can DS them now close to the enemy. It's still tough though as one guy has a guard army that nearly tabled me in 2 turns and consider i went first. Yeah that's right.

I'm thinking multi-charge with bloodbrides with some units pinning them down first and absorbing overwatch would be good. With the roll-off i should force at least one of the guard squads to stay in combat and that means it can't be shot at. Hopefully could make it into the tanks the very next turn. It'd require a hell of a lot of luck that's for sure. Sadly vs that guy's guard army i might be forced to try turn one charges esp. if i go 2nd. I might not have a lot left otherwise. I still think i'd lose to his guard army but it's worth a shot.

Actually now that i think about it a turn 1 charge probably couldn't happen. I wouldn't have the units available to take overwatch for the bloodbrides. I'd probably be forced to do one unit of grotesques and another of just bloodbrides which actually could probably work.

Ugh it's tough but i might come up with something.

Use Wyches, they are cheaper and the unit will die, using 2x10 units in WWP on turn 2 isnt a bad idea. I was thinking about doing this as well just b.c i want to use my Wyches. Bloodbrides are just to costly to do anything with IMO. Your paying 4pts just for a bonus +1 attack. Yes the +1 also gives to your 3 weapons... but they are good enough to pay 4pts for 1 more attack.

Also Wyches can be taken in 20man Units, you could just use 1x20 man on turn 2, the Drug will go a long way on a 20man unit. But then you need to worry about moral. ANd 2x10 means you can split them easier or if 1 charge fails you have a 2nd chance.

Played another close game at 1500 pts. If i was to play again i'd say i need another dissie ravager and maybe another void raven. That up to 10 mortal wounds void mine is no joke when it works. Gotta get rid of those blaster scourge though. Only dark lance scourge are worth it. They're just too fragile otherwise.

Blasters just dont do enough damage for such little range and points. If they were 6pts? Sure take them. And i love the Void Bombers myself. I need to get a 2nd one, i have 3 RWJF's :(

Edit: What did you go against?

I played against blood angels. It was interesting because he said i should deep strike everything at once on turn one but seeing how things went vs the space wolf player i played against i held back a bit and only DS'd when i saw some of what he was DS'ing first so i could get the drop on his DS guys. The point being scourge are too fragile to stand up to enemy DS'ers that arrive after them and in response to them.

Honestly so far if i had to say most fights where i face enemies that also deep strike i tend to lose but i'm getting better at facing them. It feels like you're playing chicken till turn 3 when they have to come on or to see if one player can be a big enough pain to force on the other person's DS'ers. Not to mention if you wipe out everything the enemy has turn 2 or beyond they auto-lose.

Also i learned some things about jump pack dudes that i didn't know about. It actually put me in a very bad position in that game. This is all assuming this is all true. Supposedly DS can work horizontally and then up so you can only be like 3" to 6" away horizontally and make much closer charges if you are jump pack units.

Anyway aside from him being all doom and gloom for me our kill points game was actually insanely close. He was ahead by only a single point. I did go first though. His dice rolls were usually pretty garbage though.

DSing turn 1 is the norm for Alpha strike, but you can also not do that lol.

Sometimes DSing turn one is a bad idea, there are 100's of variables and its hard to say you should do that without knowing the mission, terrain, deployment type, lists, etc...

If he is also DSing lots of units and your going 2nd, DSing after him might be better. If your going 1st and you know you can kill all his or at least enough of his units on the table then sure.


About the 9" DSing rule, no its always over 9" BTB (or BtM or MTM) you MUST be over 9" away no matter if its X, Y, or Z axes, UNLESS you have a rule that literally says "you may be closer", and only a few units in the game have that.. very few. The Death Leaper doesnt even have that. (i can only think of GSC that can atm).

So he read the rules wrong (i'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he read them wrong).

Jump/Fly units only ignore certain movements DS isnt a movement its a rule, and they only ignore vertical movements for going over terrain, units, etc.. they do not ignore distanced placed aka BTB or MTM.

Edit:
BTB = base to base
MTM = Model to model (some models dont have bases
BTM = Base to model
DS = Deep striking or other rules similar
GSC = Genestealer Cult

Honestly i disagree with your points adjustment to Blasters. You see i think Blasters need to be 15-20 pts but get assault 2 or rapid fire 1. That way we can get double the firepower.

My reasoning actually helps more i believe. You see when you take scourge you still have to buy the scourge themselves and equip with blasters for what's essentially a suicide unit. In that way even if dark lance is more expensive if i run a 10 man unit of scourge (meat shields) with 4 dark lances they might last all game at 3 feet of range. Blasters hit hard and fast and then die. Even for half the price of a 10 man scourge unit with 4 dark lances i'd still prefer the dark lances.

Heat lances i'm unsure about but i still think it's a waste. They're in a very weird position being way too pricey, very suicide unit based and the things they're best at (killing mini-monsters like hive guard, bikes, death guard units and wulfen) can also probably be done by dark lances at a safer range with the only downside being no re-roll to damage. Not only that but you only get that re-roll at 9" range which you can't even get on deepstrike.

For me i think haywire is just going to stay garbage. In 7th it stopped having a use when tanks went away but in 8th it just doesn't do enough even with vehicles.

Anyway the only fix i have right now is for blasters and i think assault 2 or rapid fire 1 would fix things considerably. Rapid fire 1 would mean you can't double tap after deep strike but it'd at least add some reward for the extra risk. Dare i say either tweak might make blasters good.

I wouldnt make that cost more, If Blasters were Assault 2 I then would take them for 15pts.

They are over costed for what they do by 2 fold, giving them a 2nd shot doesnt mean you increase the cost of them.

Tho Giving them a 2nd shot is a nice idea and i can get behind that.

I dont think Blaster are Suicide like you do, thats literally what Heat Lances are for. They were highly used in 7th for that purpose... and since they were used GW wanted to sell more models and nerf them m, sadly they would make more money from models is everything was good and not nerf.. but w/e.

Been having a rather mixed time with my list but i'd say it's positive overall. Unless it's space wolves, horde nids or imperial guard then i think i tend to win or get close games. Enemies that deep strike are also an iffy thing. I'm getting better though and i think the 2 void ravens will help if i set them up to drop void mines on where my units DS considering enemies with melee DS'ers will end up around there and near my DS'ing squads.

Also more disintegrator ravagers will help considerably but maybe the void mines will help.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-codexes-factions-our-heroes-and-more-breaking-news-from-the-las-vegas-opengw-homepage-post-1/

 Amishprn86 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-codexes-factions-our-heroes-and-more-breaking-news-from-the-las-vegas-opengw-homepage-post-1/

A picture of a cover?

Btw i'm actually doing ok with my dark eldar right now. I faced genestealer cults last week and beat em.

Honestly if i had to say the best counter we have to horde armies is melee'ing them with ravagers or raiders if you don't have ravagers. Ork boyz might be the exception but vs gaunts, cultists, guardsmen and neophyte hybrids the toughness 6 really manages to keep low tier spam units from hurting the vehicle too bad. Also if you really need it you can just fly away at any time.

The game i had vs genestealer cults probably had the ravager get the most damaged by any overwatch ever if only because his 2 flamers rolled up 12 shots and 12 auto-hits with like 5 wounds but only 3 got through (very good rolls for him). That said he had 40 shotgun shots at over half range and only 1 wound of it went through.

What has stonewalled my dark eldar has not been the screens themselves but the psykers and characters mixed into those screens. Against 90 plaguebearers, I was able to kill very little of my opponent's army (some of which regrew) while in his turn he was able to smite and use various other powers to destroy 3 of my transports and all the passengers in a single turn.

You can't make many trades like that where you're just killing a dozen plaguebearers if you're lucky (84 points) but he's killing hundreds of points back in vehicles and passengers.

I tried both routes, staying at range and pouring in shots and moving up to block and tie units up with transports. Both were crushing defeats and I'm a fairly high ranked player on ITC rankings so I know it's not just me sucking. I'm keeping them on the shelf until I see more from the codex.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
What has stonewalled my dark eldar has not been the screens themselves but the psykers and characters mixed into those screens. Against 90 plaguebearers, I was able to kill very little of my opponent's army (some of which regrew) while in his turn he was able to smite and use various other powers to destroy 3 of my transports and all the passengers in a single turn.

You can't make many trades like that where you're just killing a dozen plaguebearers if you're lucky (84 points) but he's killing hundreds of points back in vehicles and passengers.

I tried both routes, staying at range and pouring in shots and moving up to block and tie units up with transports. Both were crushing defeats and I'm a fairly high ranked player on ITC rankings so I know it's not just me sucking. I'm keeping them on the shelf until I see more from the codex.

Dark Eldar in 8th lost its ability to kill hordes. Unless your fighting Lots of High cost big targets, DE suffers.

With Splinter Cannon being 1/2 the shots, and everything can hurt everything now. We cant kill as much of them but they can kill more of us, making it harder to get Rapid fire. DE never used to be hurt by S3 before, so we didnt care if we got close to Hordes to actually use our Rapid fire weapons. but that just isnt possible now.

DE got hit 3x against horde armies this edition.

But with the codex coming out, hopefully we get enough changes to matter.

You know what'd help? It'd help if we got splinter racks back on raiders and they doubled shots on splinter weapons.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You know what'd help? It'd help if we got splinter racks back on raiders and they doubled shots on splinter weapons.

I was guessing it would be a 1CP stratagem.