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BrianDavion wrote:
how'd the Inceptors do? I know there's been a lot of debate as to weather they are worth their points or not.

And I still haven't heard from GW about their points issue. At 159, I would field these all day. 225? Not so much.

Maybe if everyone posts about it on their FB, we will get an answer?

What do everyone think about the Ironclad now it can't ride in pod anymore ? Maybe in a stormraven, or kept in reserve for counter assaulting deep striking units ?

 godardc wrote:
What do everyone think about the Ironclad now it can't ride in pod anymore ? Maybe in a stormraven, or kept in reserve for counter assaulting deep striking units ?

I feel like a couple of Double twin Autocannon dreads (or venerables) with a Captain and Lieutenant will be better than a Storm Raven and Ironclad.

For 17 points more than a normal pod you can buy a FW one and drop in the dread as you used to.

TBH though it's still so damn expensive i wouldn't personally bother

GAdvance wrote:
For 17 points more than a normal pod you can buy a FW one and drop in the dread as you used to.

TBH though it's still so damn expensive i wouldn't personally bother

You say that, but for a 300-400 point leviathan with grav flux bombards? Hell yea I will spend those points. Plus it is so damn big that they LITERALLY cant get a model within 3 inches of the objective marker haha.

 Leth wrote:

GAdvance wrote:
For 17 points more than a normal pod you can buy a FW one and drop in the dread as you used to.

TBH though it's still so damn expensive i wouldn't personally bother

You say that, but for a 300-400 point leviathan with grav flux bombards? Hell yea I will spend those points. Plus it is so damn big that they LITERALLY cant get a model within 3 inches of the objective marker haha.

That is almost too brutal to use. I love it!

 godardc wrote:
What do everyone think about the Ironclad now it can't ride in pod anymore ? Maybe in a stormraven, or kept in reserve for counter assaulting deep striking units ?

Used them as counter chargers

completely deleted a rhino and a daemon prince with two of them on my first game.

 godardc wrote:
What do everyone think about the Ironclad now it can't ride in pod anymore ? Maybe in a stormraven, or kept in reserve for counter assaulting deep striking units ?

The storm raven itself is a very good option, sticking an iron clad in it remains quite solid

I will play a stormraven and an ironclad today, so I guess I will see if they work fine together.
How many pts does an ironclad launcher cost ? I can't find it !

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:


Storm talon gunship 110 or 160 w/typhoon

It's actually 165 (base, 2*HB + TL-Ass Cannon) and 195 for the typhoon version.
You need to add the cost for each weapon.

My plan for this edition is sending centurions plodding up the board with a good CC character and surprising the opponent with assault marines landing on their side of the board with this new version of deepstrike. In terms of tactical marines I'll be using small squads to keep points down and I'll be staying away from rhinos, razorbacks and drop pods because of their rise in points.

The best Ironclad loadout is probably the Dreadnought chainfist/hurricane bolter, but it feels a bit expensive to me at nearly 200 points. The fact that you have to pay for a meltagun instead of a storm bolter as your secondary weapon hurts, as do the increased chassis costs, and the Ironclad is no more resilient than a normal Dreadnought against lascannons.

I think regular Dreadnoughts are a better buy this edition, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong - I have three FW Ironclads!

So, I fought against a skitarii army.
I've come to the conclusion that Ironclads are only useful against small elites units, monsters and expensive vehicles, but it was already obvious.
However, I'm a bit disappointed by his lack of durability.
So I don't know, if I knew for sure that I would fight against a mechanized army or a tyranid army full of big monsters, it seems useful.
But otherwise it would be a waste, and a big waste at 200 points.
Very specialised, maybe too specialised for a Tac list


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:
The best Ironclad loadout is probably the Dreadnought chainfist/hurricane bolter, but it feels a bit expensive to me at nearly 200 points. The fact that you have to pay for a meltagun instead of a storm bolter as your secondary weapon hurts, as do the increased chassis costs, and the Ironclad is no more resilient than a normal Dreadnought against lascannons.

I think regular Dreadnoughts are a better buy this edition, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong - I have three FW Ironclads!

Why the hurricane bolter ?

 Kingsley wrote:
The best Ironclad loadout is probably the Dreadnought chainfist/hurricane bolter, but it feels a bit expensive to me at nearly 200 points. The fact that you have to pay for a meltagun instead of a storm bolter as your secondary weapon hurts, as do the increased chassis costs, and the Ironclad is no more resilient than a normal Dreadnought against lascannons.

I think regular Dreadnoughts are a better buy this edition, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong - I have three FW Ironclads!

What about the Venerable Chaplin and Leviathan from FW they look fairly beastly?

I'm finding space marines to be a bit meh this edition so far, bur I'm going to run them in a 1k tournament tomorrow to get a bit more experience. I'm stuck between the below two lists, what does everyone think? Its on 4x4 boards with various missions

++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Space Marines) ++

Tactical Squad: Missile Launcher

Contemptor Dreadnought: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought CCW, Kheres pattern assault Cannon

Contemptor Dreadnought: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought CCW, Kheres pattern assault Cannon

Vanguard Veterans: Melta-bombs, 4x Power Axe, 4x Storm Shield, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, 4x Vanguard Veteran, Veteran Sergeant

Captain: Power Fist

Chaplain: Bolt Pistol

Hellblaster Squad: 5x Plasma Incinerator

Rhino: Stormbolter

Tac squad and hellblasters will sit on backfield objectives whilst the vanguard and chaplain will ride up in the rhino. Contemptor either flanking or supporting the veterans. Captain will try and stop the hellblasters from blowing themselves up.


++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Space Marines) ++

Tactical Squad: Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad: Plasma Gun

Captain: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist

Librarian: Bolt Pistol, Force Sword

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought
. Kheres Assault Cannons: 2x Kheres pattern assault Cannon

Devastator Squad: Armorium Cherub, Heavy Bolter, 3x Missile Launcher

Hellblaster Squad: 5x Plasma Incinerator

Rhino: Stormbolter

Rhino: Stormbolter

++ Total: [1000 Pts] ++


More of a shooty army. Everything but the tactical squads sits back and tries to blow stuff up. Tacticals rush objectives.

So I decided to revamp my list a little. Took out my Pods, added a Rhino, some Scouts, and a Vindicare. Unfortunately this means my Razorbacks are actually going to be carrying Marines, which almost seems like a foreign concept now.

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts

Elites
Apothecary - 55 pts
Honour Guard (Power Sword x2) - 50 pts
Honour Guard (Power Maul x2) - 50 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (4x Lascannon) - 165 pts

Dedicated Transports
Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter) - 102 pts
Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter) - 102 pts

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Rhino Primaris (Twin plasma gun, orbital array) - 170 pts
Troops
Scout Squad (x5 Boltgun+bolt pistol) - 55 pts

Elites
Sternguard Squad (x10 Special Issue Boltgun) - 190 pts
Sternguard Squad (x5 Combi-Melta) - 175 pts
Sternguard Squad (x5 Combi-Plasma) - 155 pts
Eversor Assassin - 70 pts
Vindicare Assassin - 90 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (x4 Missile Launchers) - 165 pts
Vindicator (Storm Bolter) - 162 pts

Dedicated Transports
Rhino (Storm Bolter) - 72 pts

Total - 1998/2000 pts

Looking through IA, what do you all think are some of our better options for anti-tank?

Las Devastators: 165 points, bs3+, 5 wounds at T4, 3+
Las Mortis Dread: 175 points, bs3+, 8 wounds at T7, 3+
Quad Las Pred: 202 points, bs 3+, 11 wounds at T7, 3+
Twin Las Contemptor Mortis: 206 points, bs2+, 10 wounds at T7, 3+/5++
Grav Bombard Leviathan: 309 points, bs2+, 14 wounds at T8, 2+/4++

A Grav Flux Bombard Leviathan might be one of our better units. Since the deployment range is smaller, 18" range isnt too bad, plus getting an extra d3 shots for each bombard for every 5 models in a unit.

So even a bare minimum tac squad would be hit by 4d3 Grav Bombard shots. About 8 shots, hitting on 3s for moving, wounding on 2s, with -5 AP? Against a 30 unit of Boyz, it gets 14d3 between the two, which is about 28 shots on average.

It averages about the same shots as a quad las pred/mortis dread/etc, when you point it at tanks and such, and does 5 wounds straight up rather then 3.5 average. Of course, it could swing down to as low as two and as high as six, so it wont be quite as reliable.

The downsides are that it is a relic and 309 points for the load out. Its 15.45% of a 2000 point list. And while things tend to start closer, it is still probably going to have to move to get into range of things,

Part of me wants to do Las Mortis Contemptors, but the other part of me remembers i just bought these predators... (though, i guess with some careful cutting i can use the 4 BAC contemptors i have....)

Would an Autocannon Mortis dread be about as effective for much less points, 136 total if I remember right. 8 Str 7 shots doing 2dmg isn't bad.

Also, what about a Pred with two Lascannons and the Pred Autocannon. Not sure on the points but 2d3 shots seems decent.

The pred autocannon loses strength, AP, and the higher damage and is only one point less than the twin lascannon.

Ehhh...

 Crazyterran wrote:
The pred autocannon loses strength, AP, and the higher damage and is only one point less than the twin lascannon.

Ehhh...

maybe but IS better for clearing crowds. but yeah definatly think Las might be best.

whats everyone think of the Librarius Pyskic disipline, do we have a winner in it, or a Lemon?

 Crazyterran wrote:
The pred autocannon loses strength, AP, and the higher damage and is only one point less than the twin lascannon.

Ehhh...

The lower S can be an issue at some breakpoints. At S9, the LCs are wounding T4 things on a 2+ and T7-8 on a 3+, where the AC is only doubling out T3, and wounds T7 (a lot of vehicles) on a 4+. But against T5-6 they are the same. And there are a number of things in that range.

I’d not call the LC’s “higher damage”. Statistically, they technically are. d6 wounds is going to average 3.5. But the pred autocannon does a steady 3D. There is something to be said for consistency. If you are willing to blow command point re-rolls on the damage, the randomness of the d6 is a little less of an issue.

And don’t forget that the autocannon gets 2d3 shots to the 2xLC’s 2.

If you are shooting at heavy armor, the LCs are better. But against things like bike squads or squadrons of light vehicles, The AC I think is the better choice. Someone with more mathhammer skills then I can chart it up if they want, I’m just running with my gut feeling right now.

The issue with the ac is its AP. Things are going to make their saves. It's not a lot of use against something like an enemy land raider.

AP is a weird one though. You get diminishing returns from a high AP because either the target's armour isn't that good, or it has an invulnerable save. So for instance anything better than -2 is wasted on a knight.

I'm trying to work out if my deredeo is worth it. It has the anvillus array and I think the pavise sounds very useful. Going from strength 7 to 8 looks like quite a big step, as it will make it do more damage to most vehicles than a standard Mortis dread. Needs a few games to decide. It's kind of like a void shield generator with guns.

I've got a couple of superheavies too. My falchion seems to have come out nice and shiny in the wash. 817 points is rather a lot, true, but it has a predator strapped to each side, a machine spirit, and a gun whose rules effectively read "remove target model from play"

My Typhon is kind of a lesser version of the falchion. I save 247 points but lose an awful lot of power in the process. 6 less lascannons and a way less powerful (though still extremely powerful) main gun.

Neither the falchion or typhon seem all that tough, for their cost. But again that needs testing. The falchion in particular is very happy to sit deep behind layers of bubble wrap. It should be safe from deep strikers, infiltrators and similar.

So how viable are tank SM armies now? I was noodling around in battlescribe and a trio of las-preds, 3-4 assault cannon razorbacks, and maybe a whirlwind or two seems like it could work.

I think mech SM is viable, but im not sure about only tanks, due to how much CC shuts them down.

I think some kind of screening is needed, otherwise most tanks become useless once locked in combat. Flamers on things like land raiders are scary to charge, but that's about it as far as i can tell.

Just noticed that all the marine superheavies are relics. You're not allowed more relics than non-relics of any given role in a detachment.

This means that in order to field a marine relic vehicle you need to have a detachment of three superheavies - at least two of which must be knights, IG or terminus ultras.

*slow hand clap*

Mech Space marines are totally viable, the razorback in particular is pretty much the most cost efficient unit in the index so far, and probably one of the most cost efficient of of the units available. Whirlwinds are similarly very good imho for a virtually nothing costs. though i'd agree on bubble-wrapping, mostly because of deepstrikers and fast combat locking you in combat

Well the thunderhawks and stormbird aren't relics... but yeah still a really dumb situation that you need a flipping thunderhawk to let you use a mastodon or fellblade.

I Rate the Librarius discipline, it's a bit of an odd one though, might of heroes means you either have to buff something mediocre or have a dedicated melee guy AND a librarian to buff him, Veil of time is just OK, since you're only ever getting half a psychic power really. Null Zone is huge, it'll destroy demons, harlequins etc and if you have high AP weapons you can make a mockery of terminator armour etc. It'll be hard making them all work well though, they seem quite specialised

The relic rule basically counts out me using my 30K iron hands in 40K and makes a LoW like a Spartan unusable.

It just says may not have MORE of, so you can have 1 relic and 1 non and it meets the requirement.

 Leth wrote:
It just says may not have MORE of, so you can have 1 relic and 1 non and it meets the requirement.

Yea, but the only option there is (currently) the Super-heavy Detachment and that has a 3 minimum.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Leth wrote:
It just says may not have MORE of, so you can have 1 relic and 1 non and it meets the requirement.

Yea, but the only option there is (currently) the Super-heavy Detachment and that has a 3 minimum.

Indeed. So I can't have one relic superheavy on its own, because that would be more than 0 non-relic superheavies. So the only way to field any of the marine ones is to run a super-heavy detachment with a couple of knights or something. I could then have two relic superheavies.

I just phoned forgeworld and the guy I spoke to was already up to speed on the issue. I'm obviously not the first person to ask about this! He said they were looking at a FAQ, because the relic rule was ending up more restrictive than they'd planned.