Switch Theme:

Reports of Van hitting Pedestrians on London Bridge in UK  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 feeder wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Islam is an ideology and a system of beliefs and moral values. Like any religion, its a set of ideas on how you should live your life. Ideas can and should be scrutinized and criticized. No idea should EVER be off limits to criticism, no matter how much people cry Racist!

I dislike Islam, because its values and beliefs and ideology are inherently anti liberal, intolerant, and aggressively proselytizing and therefore in my view incompatible with the sort of western, pluralist liberal society that I want to live in (and before anybody pipes up with "What about Christianity!", know that I am atheist). I don't like Islam's oppression of homosexuals for instance, or how women are second class citizens in many Islamic countries.

Just look at this map of legal stances on homosexuality. Homosexuals are better off by an order of magnitude outside of Islam's influence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg

Individual Muslims on the other hand I give the benefit of the doubt and will regard and judge as individuals. As people here are fond of saying, Islam is not a monolith, and Muslims are not a hive mind. Even though I regard their religion as inherently intolerant, not all individual Muslims believe or practice their religion to the same intensity and degree of literalism. One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Another Muslim might be laid back and not care.


I largely agree with this statement.

My experience would be this, however:
"One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Ten Muslims might be laid back and not care."
I doubt that. The average Muslim falls somewhere in between, not on either extreme.
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Islam is an ideology and a system of beliefs and moral values. Like any religion, its a set of ideas on how you should live your life. Ideas can and should be scrutinized and criticized. No idea should EVER be off limits to criticism, no matter how much people cry Racist!

I dislike Islam, because its values and beliefs and ideology are inherently anti liberal, intolerant, and aggressively proselytizing and therefore in my view incompatible with the sort of western, pluralist liberal society that I want to live in (and before anybody pipes up with "What about Christianity!", know that I am atheist). I don't like Islam's oppression of homosexuals for instance, or how women are second class citizens in many Islamic countries.

Just look at this map of legal stances on homosexuality. Homosexuals are better off by an order of magnitude outside of Islam's influence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg

Individual Muslims on the other hand I give the benefit of the doubt and will regard and judge as individuals. As people here are fond of saying, Islam is not a monolith, and Muslims are not a hive mind. Even though I regard their religion as inherently intolerant, not all individual Muslims believe or practice their religion to the same intensity and degree of literalism. One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Another Muslim might be laid back and not care.


I largely agree with this statement.

My experience would be this, however:
"One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Ten Muslims might be laid back and not care."
I doubt that. The average Muslim falls somewhere in between, not on either extreme.


Why do you class not caring about sharia law and executing gay people as "extreme"? Has there been any kind of large push from the muslim populations of western countries to bring in sharia law or change the laws regarding homosexuality?

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/06/21 21:14:49


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Islam is an ideology and a system of beliefs and moral values. Like any religion, its a set of ideas on how you should live your life. Ideas can and should be scrutinized and criticized. No idea should EVER be off limits to criticism, no matter how much people cry Racist!

I dislike Islam, because its values and beliefs and ideology are inherently anti liberal, intolerant, and aggressively proselytizing and therefore in my view incompatible with the sort of western, pluralist liberal society that I want to live in (and before anybody pipes up with "What about Christianity!", know that I am atheist). I don't like Islam's oppression of homosexuals for instance, or how women are second class citizens in many Islamic countries.

Just look at this map of legal stances on homosexuality. Homosexuals are better off by an order of magnitude outside of Islam's influence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg

Individual Muslims on the other hand I give the benefit of the doubt and will regard and judge as individuals. As people here are fond of saying, Islam is not a monolith, and Muslims are not a hive mind. Even though I regard their religion as inherently intolerant, not all individual Muslims believe or practice their religion to the same intensity and degree of literalism. One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Another Muslim might be laid back and not care.


I largely agree with this statement.

My experience would be this, however:
"One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Ten Muslims might be laid back and not care."
I doubt that. The average Muslim falls somewhere in between, not on either extreme.


Why do you class not caring about sharia law and executing gay people as "extreme"?


"Extreme" as in on opposite ends of a spectrum, conservative vs liberal.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Islam is an ideology and a system of beliefs and moral values. Like any religion, its a set of ideas on how you should live your life. Ideas can and should be scrutinized and criticized. No idea should EVER be off limits to criticism, no matter how much people cry Racist!

I dislike Islam, because its values and beliefs and ideology are inherently anti liberal, intolerant, and aggressively proselytizing and therefore in my view incompatible with the sort of western, pluralist liberal society that I want to live in (and before anybody pipes up with "What about Christianity!", know that I am atheist). I don't like Islam's oppression of homosexuals for instance, or how women are second class citizens in many Islamic countries.

Just look at this map of legal stances on homosexuality. Homosexuals are better off by an order of magnitude outside of Islam's influence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg

Individual Muslims on the other hand I give the benefit of the doubt and will regard and judge as individuals. As people here are fond of saying, Islam is not a monolith, and Muslims are not a hive mind. Even though I regard their religion as inherently intolerant, not all individual Muslims believe or practice their religion to the same intensity and degree of literalism. One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Another Muslim might be laid back and not care.


I largely agree with this statement.

My experience would be this, however:
"One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Ten Muslims might be laid back and not care."
I doubt that. The average Muslim falls somewhere in between, not on either extreme.


Why do you class not caring about sharia law and executing gay people as "extreme"?


"Extreme" as in on opposite ends of a spectrum, conservative vs liberal.


Extreme... But if political is a circle... Extreme left and right etc come very close.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 jhe90 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
"Extreme" as in on opposite ends of a spectrum, conservative vs liberal.
Extreme... But if political is a circle... Extreme left and right etc come very close.


Yes, but I'm not talking about politics, I'm talking about morality and tolerance of homosexuality. Homophobia vs liberalism. I don't think the horseshoe theory applies here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/21 21:21:16


 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Islam is an ideology and a system of beliefs and moral values. Like any religion, its a set of ideas on how you should live your life. Ideas can and should be scrutinized and criticized. No idea should EVER be off limits to criticism, no matter how much people cry Racist!

I dislike Islam, because its values and beliefs and ideology are inherently anti liberal, intolerant, and aggressively proselytizing and therefore in my view incompatible with the sort of western, pluralist liberal society that I want to live in (and before anybody pipes up with "What about Christianity!", know that I am atheist). I don't like Islam's oppression of homosexuals for instance, or how women are second class citizens in many Islamic countries.

Just look at this map of legal stances on homosexuality. Homosexuals are better off by an order of magnitude outside of Islam's influence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg

Individual Muslims on the other hand I give the benefit of the doubt and will regard and judge as individuals. As people here are fond of saying, Islam is not a monolith, and Muslims are not a hive mind. Even though I regard their religion as inherently intolerant, not all individual Muslims believe or practice their religion to the same intensity and degree of literalism. One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Another Muslim might be laid back and not care.


I largely agree with this statement.

My experience would be this, however:
"One hardcore conservative Muslim might be extremely homophobic and in favour of Sharia law and execution for gay people. Ten Muslims might be laid back and not care."
I doubt that. The average Muslim falls somewhere in between, not on either extreme.


Why do you class not caring about sharia law and executing gay people as "extreme"?


"Extreme" as in on opposite ends of a spectrum, conservative vs liberal.


So describe what you consider to be the average muslim if they are not someone personally beheading gay people or not caring whether someone is gay.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

People that don't think gay marriage and homosexuality is right but they don't have enough force to push their agenda to ban that?

I know many, many catholic people here that are like that so...

Like it or not, the average muslism isn't as progresist as Western societies are today. Societies that have not minorist groups that even go agains't some of those "progresist views"

I remember my Godmother saying:
"At first I didn't understand gay people, but now I understand them. They just love each other, so thats right. Bisexual ones? Those are just all lust!"
A step is a step, I suppose.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/21 21:26:19


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Someone that considers it a sin, opposes gay marriage, is probably homophobic in various ways (social ostracisation, wouldn't associate with and befriend a gay person, wouldn't wish to welcome a gay person into their Mosque etc) but has no desire for violence against them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/21 21:24:55


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

er... like everyone else? That what his post seems to say.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

We seem to be done with the original topic, and since you can't have a discussion of an expanded topic politely amongst yourselves, the thread is going away

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: