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 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Sad most of this thread devolved into talk about guard units =/

Well, to be fair, we have discussed AdMech to death. Most conversation now will be on the next 'Dex and what it offers us or what challenges it brings.

Plus, the Guard 'Dex is pretty brutally powerful and ours isn't, so we can borrow to max out our competitive potential.

Oh my god, “Cyraxus” is now a part of my phone’s autocorrect because I’ve said it so many times. That really tells you something about the current state of the army.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Sad most of this thread devolved into talk about guard units =/

I know, it's not exactly optimal.

Unfortunately GW gave us a book where a solid Half of our units and the majority of our Forge World Dogma are just cold garbage. So, we must make use of the tools we have! For me this means including allied Guard units, and building them with conversions to make them all Adeptus Mechanicus.

luckily however skitarii make for decent looking guardsmen and leman russ tanks look damn good painted up in red.

and anyone wants to give us crap for it i point you to the fluff that states skitarii range from anything from guard to genebulked humanoids with weaponized limbs.

oh and tech thralls make perfect conscripts and using skitarii as guard and tech thralls as conscripts is a good way to make the two look distinct.

-em

Yeah, I think I was overdoing it on the snipers. I turned 6 of the guys into another elysian special weapon squad. 15 sniper rifles now. I still think that is pretty good character threat. I am running 15 skitarii foot guys for the battalion +2cp and I don't think I need conscripts with 15 skitarii foot and 15 2 wound sniper bases and 2 dragoons.

Have you guys checked out the new ITC missions? They heavily reward killing marked targets and taking distant objectives. Objectives are often scored at the end of player turn or end of round. This means that going second and having a lot of deep strike squads is going to be key for scoring. If you aren't running deep strike allies, I think competitive lists are going to need two dragoon units. Solo admech right now just can't take those distant objectives.

Wulfey wrote:

-em

Yeah, I think I was overdoing it on the snipers. I turned 6 of the guys into another elysian special weapon squad. 15 sniper rifles now. I still think that is pretty good character threat. I am running 15 skitarii foot guys for the battalion +2cp and I don't think I need conscripts with 15 skitarii foot and 15 2 wound sniper bases and 2 dragoons.

Have you guys checked out the new ITC missions? They heavily reward killing marked targets and taking distant objectives. Objectives are often scored at the end of player turn or end of round. This means that going second and having a lot of deep strike squads is going to be key for scoring. If you aren't running deep strike allies, I think competitive lists are going to need two dragoon units. Solo admech right now just can't take those distant objectives.

Well we've got Stygies and Lucius for this. Just think about porting 30 inches with that shiny little Lucius relic. Very cool.
Dragoons are a must, you are absolutely right. What I dont think is a need of a deep strike ally since we can drop anything we want and not just units with the the deep strike rule. This is something we have use to our advantage.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

If you're taking two Company Commanders, you might as well bring 2x Elysian Drop Trooper Squad and move the Conscripts up for Battalion? (Cadian Conscripts aren't much more impressive than no-doctrine Conscripts.) Anyhow, I think 2 CP is worth more than four more plasma guns.

Well, I would only need one Drop Trooper Squad, since the Conscripts would be a troop choice, but where would I find the points without sacrificing something more useful?. Also, I thought there would be a drawback or something because Conscripts aren't able to be Elysians, but apparently there is no drawback to breaking battle-forged (as Elysians) with them that I can tell (unless I am missing or forgetting something). Not really jazzed with the Drop Trooper Squad though, honestly.

In other words, I would be bending over backwards to fit them in just to get 2CP more. I should be able to squeeze off Wrath for three rounds and Binharic once off my current CP (with just 1 CP regen). Not sure its worth it bumping the Elysians to a Battalion for one more Wrath, really.

Do Elysians rules stop working if the entire detachment isn't Elysian? I don't think it states that in my index...

That being said, I just discovered that Tank Commander is an Officer now. So what about running the 211 point Dakka Lemon (Punisher with 3x Heavy Bolter)? Vostroyan for 30" Punisher and 42" Heavy Bolters. Tallarn for the ability to move and shoot? (Another plus: That Enginseer you pay as a tax in a Stygies Outrider now has a good use.)

Quick question though: Does anyone with a Guard codex know if Tank Commanders can order themselves yet?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Sad most of this thread devolved into talk about guard units =/

If people want to win, we got to do what we got to do. =\

Suzuteo wrote:
Quick question though: Does anyone with a Guard codex know if Tank Commanders can order themselves yet?

They can.

Though who knows if that gets changed in an FAQ again.

well, INcontrol won a RTT without any help from Imperial Guard. This was before the possible changes on the ITC missions which were basically not discussed yet.

Iago40k wrote:
well, INcontrol won a RTT without any help from Imperial Guard. This was before the possible changes on the ITC missions which were basically not discussed yet.

This is true. But even he conceded that his list is not optimal yet.

Anyhow, I personally think it's important to consider how we can exploit the Guard codex. I'm not looking to do majority Guard or Imperium Soup, but a Tank Commander has some synergy with our HQs due to repairs, and Grand Strategist + Kurov's Aquila definitely is better than what we've got.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
Quick question though: Does anyone with a Guard codex know if Tank Commanders can order themselves yet?

They can.

Though who knows if that gets changed in an FAQ again.

Great! So what do people think of that Lemon builds?

The Punisher + 3x Heavy Bolter that I mentioned above is 29 shots of Conscript-chewing dakka. Toss-up between Tallarn and Vostroyan Regiments for that setup.

A Vostroyan Executioner + 2x Plasma Gun + 1x Heavy Bolter (or go 3x Heavy Bolter) is also pretty cool; 42" range on all of the guns. Tank Order + Vostroya Stratagem makes overheating almost impossible. It's also fluffy, since Vostroya is one of the only Forge Worlds not ruled by the Cult Mechanicus, and Executioners are now used almost exclusively by Ryzan Skitarii; the few that remain are all millenia-old heirlooms.

Many tours including some big one require single faction. And no I don't mean imperium. Currently two in my area and one for quilf round single faction so have a solo ad mech list just in case.

For me 250 points are changed from my pure ad mech towards my soup. Don't need more guard than a basic screen and the warlord trait with relic. Rest I can find better in ad mech atm.

I said already my opinion for in control he is testing . The lists can be better with neutronagers priests and a bit less Robots. More options flexibility and not so much different play. Close but still better. Priests neutronagers dragoons snipers extremely good atm for most enemies.

Suzuteo wrote:
Do Elysians rules stop working if the entire detachment isn't Elysian? I don't think it states that in my index...

Not that I saw, but I thought so at first - hence the Conscripts in the Cadian detachment.

Wulfey wrote:
-em

Yeah, I think I was overdoing it on the snipers. I turned 6 of the guys into another elysian special weapon squad. 15 sniper rifles now. I still think that is pretty good character threat. I am running 15 skitarii foot guys for the battalion +2cp and I don't think I need conscripts with 15 skitarii foot and 15 2 wound sniper bases and 2 dragoons.

Have you guys checked out the new ITC missions? They heavily reward killing marked targets and taking distant objectives. Objectives are often scored at the end of player turn or end of round. This means that going second and having a lot of deep strike squads is going to be key for scoring. If you aren't running deep strike allies, I think competitive lists are going to need two dragoon units. Solo admech right now just can't take those distant objectives.

I don't do ITC rules, nor does my LGS. At least, not purely.

Suzuteo wrote:
Great! So what do people think of that Lemon builds?

Think it depends what your intent is. Cadia and Vestroyan go well enough with the rest of the heavy support units siting back hoping not to get charged.

Catachan Is pretty sweet if trying to add in some reliable LOS ignoring artillery.

Tallarn is good if you are wanting more stuff to throw into the mix to be more mobile. Even without Ambush, being able to move and fire with no Heavy Weapon penalty is really sweet.

For me its just coming down to investment. I like a good 1500 pt core of Ad Mech. So initially im looking to spend right around 500 points on Guard. Spamming russes eats that 500 up fairly fast, especially with a tank commander of any sort. So I was looking more at Tallarn for more mobility and the option to Ambush if setup is looking good for it. Hellhounds and scout sentinels were my thoughts.

I haven't put any numbers down yet though. And Ambushing without taking that Guard in a brigade to pay for itself really hurts the CP pool.

Has anyone ever tried an all dominus list. I've thought abou a list with 4-5 dominii and a handful of repairable support to make a constantly repairing army buy it screams "stupid ideas" funny interesting but stupid.

Anyone ever attempted it?

gendoikari87 wrote:
Has anyone ever tried an all dominus list. I've thought abou a list with 4-5 dominii and a handful of repairable support to make a constantly repairing army buy it screams "stupid ideas" funny interesting but stupid.

Anyone ever attempted it?

No, but it sounds hilarious good fun. Probably not "competitive" in the sense of cleaning house at tournaments, but seems like it'd be a very tough list for game night, and not the typical "tournament prep" list you see or just random assortment of stuff either.

Yeah I was thinking 5 dominii with volkites with 6 eradication onagers with chs throw them in a couple spearheads or just go balls to the wall crazy and go 9 dominii with eradication thingingies and throw the. In lucious or stigies and scatter then around the board like the assassin lists retreat the ones that survive to heal back to full advance the ones they couldn't shoot before keep them within 3" of each other so they can heroic intervention each other.

Probably get stomped but it'd be a fun list for a turn or two

Oh here's a fun idea 10 robots in units of 2 5 datasmiths and a dominus in a stygies spearhead vanguards. Good ? No. Good for a laugh ? Yeah

All dominus sounds maybe fun? But super bad... 4 lascannon shots going out with any sort of re-rolls to hit can kill 4 dominus a turn, no problem.

I mean that's not the point of the list. The point is being goofy and playing around with the character targeting rules.

Also bad math. Assuming they all auto hit wounding on 2 you need 10 lascannons to kill 4 dominii a turn.

Also they're not super high toughness so it's not lascannons you need to worry about but infantry fire

I mean, sure whatever. Fun is fun, people will have fun in whatever weird way they want. Just seems like garbage to me. Dominus shooting is just terrible.

Oh their damage output is beyond terrible


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/what-dg-faq-mean-guard-codex.html

Hmmmmmmmm

Fires of Cyraxus soon, boyz.

What units are going to be useful? I have zero clue what any of the Mechanicum units are or if they are good.

 ph34r wrote:
Fires of Cyraxus soon, boyz.

What units are going to be useful? I have zero clue what any of the Mechanicum units are or if they are good.

We won't know for sure until we see stats and points, but Triaros seem like a no-brainer for a faction without transports.

Maybe there will be a new HQ option or three (Macrotek, Magos, ArchMagos).

What evidence do you have that it is soon?

 ph34r wrote:
Fires of Cyraxus soon, boyz.

What units are going to be useful? I have zero clue what any of the Mechanicum units are or if they are good.

I emailed Forgeworld and they said it's not going to be in 2017. I don't know where you're getting this from.

Also I'm assuming vorax will be a good substitute for dragoons if you face meq. Fast probably going to get more wounds. Decent shooting power weapons but not as good anti tank.

Really hoping the thanatars are worth taking with the giant lascannon and it's not just a lascannon. Or darkfire lascannon whatever they call it.

Super hoping the myrmidons are not crap. They don't have to be good just don't be as crap as kataphrons.

gendoikari87 wrote:
What evidence do you have that it is soon?

Everyone is basing this off the new hover tank from the WD, which is Red Scorpions for a "new book". Most folks are just hoping this is FoC.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
What evidence do you have that it is soon?

Everyone is basing this off the new hover tank from the WD, which is Red Scorpions for a "new book". Most folks are just hoping this is FoC.

that picture was so blurry I couldn't even tell it was red scorpions

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
What evidence do you have that it is soon?

Everyone is basing this off the new hover tank from the WD, which is Red Scorpions for a "new book". Most folks are just hoping this is FoC.

that picture was so blurry I couldn't even tell it was red scorpions

Yellow. Grey. White emblem with red thingy in it. Pretty obvious.

Yellow grey is also space wolves and I'm too old to make out red in those tiny white dots

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Fires of Cyraxus soon, boyz.

What units are going to be useful? I have zero clue what any of the Mechanicum units are or if they are good.

We won't know for sure until we see stats and points, but Triaros seem like a no-brainer for a faction without transports.

Maybe there will be a new HQ option or three (Macrotek, Magos, ArchMagos).

Oh no. My Macroteks are being used as Enginseers. I guess I will have options...?

And here's hoping Secutarii are good. Though if Thallaxes have a 24" no-Deep Strike bubble, I will be using those instead. Also, if Automata are actually affordable (or not awful), maybe we will finally have Brigades; Agripinaa may also become viable.

And yes, there is the possibility of transports... but a part of me thinks that GW doesn't want us to have them. Maybe I have just normalized the neglect. Also, it would make Electro-Priests more viable, but I hate how they look.