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 AduroT wrote:
Spock’s whole why did it choose me thing is kind of dumb though. I mean just look at it objectively, the first thing the angel did was tell him how to save his sister. His sister who went on to “cause” the Klingon war amongst all the other stuff that’s gone down. That alone is one hell of a butterfly.

Janeway wiped out an entire timeline of billions to save a couple of people.... yep trek is really dim when it comes to time travel.

 Formosa wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Spock’s whole why did it choose me thing is kind of dumb though. I mean just look at it objectively, the first thing the angel did was tell him how to save his sister. His sister who went on to “cause” the Klingon war amongst all the other stuff that’s gone down. That alone is one hell of a butterfly.

Janeway wiped out an entire timeline of billions to save a couple of people.... yep trek is really dim when it comes to time travel.

That timeline wasn't supposed to exist anyway. And Burnham didn't cause the war. The Klingons did, the war was inevitable.

Burnham actively tried to avoid the Klingon War. It’s why she spoke with Savek, and disobeyed orders in the first place.

Uhh just watched that - what a shockingly poor episode.

A few tiny sparks of enjoyment amongst the dross - so much dross.

Spock and Burnhams interactions - nice - good stuff.
Detmer got more lines - hurah
Spock, Pike and the Admiral - always good in every scene.

The cast deserve so much better - they can do good stuff - just get a decent writing team.

The bad, oh so very bad - the constant plot hole swallowed by more plot holes - URGGGGhhhhh

Tedious Silly Tilly on the Bdige - vomit.
The Skynet plot is just lame and so telegraphed.
The scary minefield - really - the mines you can see FFS - just shoot the bloody things. But no we don't use our guns anymore.
As others have said - the whole - look here is a character we have not bothered with - lets give her more than a token line and kill her. Rubish lazy writing again
Lets be unpredictable with the lumbering scow that Discovery is apparently on impulse - and use standard manuervers - cos thats not predictable. Why not let Detmer just fly and use her vaunted piloting skills.
The scary (and SToopid) AI only needs cyborg girl - so doesn't blow up Discovery once she is on the station because....
Cybog girl does not shoot main cast because....
Lets stand here on the bridge watching the fight rather than......say beaming over some actual security officers with more guns or in fact beaming cyborg girl elsewhere or in fact doing anything.
Oh no's - cyborg girl is going to die - if only we could like beam her into the brig or something and save/interrogate her - like we did with Tyler last season......nope lets just watch her die.

Suspension of disbelif is all very well but this was just mindless stupidity from scene to scene.

Not to mention that Burnham spent a bunch of time wailing verbally at Airiam instead of checking if what's-her-face was still alive after having her means of breathing disconnected from her face. No one cares about the poor security officer.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Not to mention that Burnham spent a bunch of time wailing verbally at Airiam instead of checking if what's-her-face was still alive after having her means of breathing disconnected from her face. No one cares about the poor security officer.

Good point - one of so many awful elements to this starship crash of an episode.

I think they where hoping to get this effect for this last episode:


Of course, it didnt work. So many cringe worthy moments.

How the hell did any of those people think that plan was going to work? If we Pretend to kill Michael, her future self will come back and save her and fall into our trap, because she totally won’t remember that we’re faking it and it’s a trap. At least Michael and Spock realized that last second and really committed to it.

No, but she knew she was so serious about it, cause it was her...
You see, its the perfect logic. As I said, mind blown

 AduroT wrote:
How the hell did any of those people think that plan was going to work? If we Pretend to kill Michael, her future self will come back and save her and fall into our trap, because she totally won’t remember that we’re faking it and it’s a trap. At least Michael and Spock realized that last second and really committed to it.

Ya I don't really understand how it works... Like does the Red Angel have a TV in the future that she can watch the past and get tricked by plot twists? How does she know what's going on at all times but doesn't know how it happened and only knows within the nick of time and so can never be proactive about stuff....

Think I am done with this program now, it never was the greatest but "The Michael Burnham Show (with added cast of mooks and officers of higher rank to order around)" is getting really old.

 ingtaer wrote:
Think I am done with this program now, it never was the greatest but "The Michael Burnham Show (with added cast of mooks and officers of higher rank to order around)" is getting really old.

I have not watched the most recent episode yet but I am currently in the same place. Sad becuase I like alot of the characters but the contant unrelenting everything is about "Michael Burnham" is really anooying (as bad as the Silly Tilly rubbish)

I am wondering if it will all turn out ot be a holo-deck anylsis of her insanity.....

 ingtaer wrote:
Think I am done with this program now, it never was the greatest but "The Michael Burnham Show (with added cast of mooks and officers of higher rank to order around)" is getting really old.

Its the only new trek for me at the moment and as much as I dont like it I want to finish it, not going to be one of those people that likes or dislikes something having not actually watched it

 ingtaer wrote:
Think I am done with this program now, it never was the greatest but "The Michael Burnham Show (with added cast of mooks and officers of higher rank to order around)" is getting really old.

There was a particularly bad scene a few episodes ago where someone hailed The Discovery and Burnham told Pike to answer it. Like, surely Pike has the capability to decide whether or not to answer a hail on his own!

Anyway, for some reason now that they’ve captured the “Red Angel” I feel the show will get better. Nothing I can explain, I just feel like it’s going to pick up again.

So rumours are kicking around of concept art of.... The borg.... Allegedly (as in I can't find the art myself) they will be featured in season 3.

Now do I believe it... God no, it would be the death knell of the show, as much as the fans like the Borg I simply fail to see how they could implement them in any way that would make any sense at all, so I think it's just some fan theory that has gained a very small amount of traction.

I hope so! Last season I was going to ditch it and then the mirror universe thing happened and I found myself enjoying it (mostly because the Empress is such a badass) however with the reveal of the Red Angel I get the opposite feeling and think the Michael Burnham show will just intensify. Will watch the next episode and see...

If they're bringing in the Borg maybe we'll finally get answers about all the fan theories surrounding V'Ger.

I could see the Borg thing happening if they feel they need the ratings bump. They've proven that they'll mine the trek lore continuity be damned like it was dilithium on Quonos' moon.

 warboss wrote:
I could see the Borg thing happening if they feel they need the ratings bump. They've proven that they'll mine the trek lore continuity be damned like it was dilithium on Quonos' moon.

Why not?

They have a ready made instant out for any lore inconsistency built right into the plot.

"Section 31 hushed it all up."

Why Borg? Is it because of the probe and hijacking of the android person? Didn't seem very borgish to me, though I suppose the Klingons didn't seem very Klingon either...
I love the V'Ger theory though, wasn't that initially started by Shatner in his book?

 ingtaer wrote:
Why Borg? Is it because of the probe and hijacking of the android person? Didn't seem very borgish to me, though I suppose the Klingons didn't seem very Klingon either...

Lots of fan theories over the years have proposed that the Borg were basically made by humanity, inadvertently. The variations on the theory usually string together a series of events from The Motion Picture, Enterprise, First Contact, and Voyager as part of the idea, but it's got some popularity in the fandom (Borg Unimatrix Ships in STO were designed based on V'Ger).

I love the V'Ger theory though, wasn't that initially started by Shatner in his book?

*shrug*

In beta canon (a novel?), it was supposedly the NX-whatever Columbia that went back in time and inadvertently created the borg through their interaction with some delta quadrant race. Regardless, it couldn't have been TMP, First Contact, or Voyager as in the official alpha canon on Voyager it was stated that the Vaduar (sp?) who had been in hibernation for roughly a thousand years knew of the borg (albeit they were a minor annoyance at the time). Unless Christopher Columbus utilized transwarp, it couldn't have been anything on Earth that didn't involve time travel that created them. Hence, it could be Michael Burnham because everything is about her always.

 warboss wrote:
In beta canon (a novel?), it was supposedly the NX-whatever Columbia that went back in time and inadvertently created the borg through their interaction with some delta quadrant race. Regardless, it couldn't have been TMP, First Contact, or Voyager as in the official alpha canon on Voyager it was stated that the Vaduar (sp?) who had been in hibernation for roughly a thousand years knew of the borg (albeit they were a minor annoyance at the time). Unless Christopher Columbus utilized transwarp, it couldn't have been anything on Earth that didn't involve time travel that created them. Hence, it could be Michael Burnham because everything is about her always.

Oh there's nothing really in canon to support it. It's just a popular fan theory among some of the more hardcore, or at least it was back when I bothered to pay attention.

 ingtaer wrote:
Why Borg? Is it because of the probe and hijacking of the android person? Didn't seem very borgish to me, though I suppose the Klingons didn't seem very Klingon either...
I love the V'Ger theory though, wasn't that initially started by Shatner in his book?

Oh wow, I've suddenly had a flashback to almost 20 years ago whilst in a bookshop waiting for a bus where I picked up a Shatner ST novel and flicked through a few pages where the plot seemed to be that V'Ger had somehow ended up in the DQ and was given a basic level of consciousness by the Borg. Was it the other way around?

Also: Who decided that 'quadrants' was a good way to delineate space? Is it used outside of Trek? The way they talk about them is like they mean something very definite, but two neighbouring planets a couple of light years apart could be in different quadrants, whilst a point close to the galactic core and one on the rim are both in the same quadrant so treated as very close...

It’s weird.

I’ve enjoyed what I’ve seen of Season 2. It’s more Trek than Season 1, but I couldn’t tell you much, if anything, about individual episodes.

Reckon I’ll give it a binge watch once it’s all out.

 Formosa wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Think I am done with this program now, it never was the greatest but "The Michael Burnham Show (with added cast of mooks and officers of higher rank to order around)" is getting really old.

Its the only new trek for me at the moment and as much as I dont like it I want to finish it, not going to be one of those people that likes or dislikes something having not actually watched it

Eh, personally I don't need to sit down and force myself to consume the whole bowl of dog turds before I declare "that's not the chocolate ice cream I wanted"

 Riquende wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Why Borg? Is it because of the probe and hijacking of the android person? Didn't seem very borgish to me, though I suppose the Klingons didn't seem very Klingon either...
I love the V'Ger theory though, wasn't that initially started by Shatner in his book?

Oh wow, I've suddenly had a flashback to almost 20 years ago whilst in a bookshop waiting for a bus where I picked up a Shatner ST novel and flicked through a few pages where the plot seemed to be that V'Ger had somehow ended up in the DQ and was given a basic level of consciousness by the Borg. Was it the other way around?

No, I remember that too. I also remeber a novel that somehow linked the probe builders from ST4 with the Borg somehow - they were old enemies, I think.

Star trek Legacy had a cut scene with the "origin of the borg" based upon shatners take.

 ingtaer wrote:
I hope so! Last season I was going to ditch it and then the mirror universe thing happened and I found myself enjoying it (mostly because the Empress is such a badass) however with the reveal of the Red Angel I get the opposite feeling and think the Michael Burnham show will just intensify. Will watch the next episode and see...

At the moment I am mainly watching it for the Empress and Spock - they get the best lines and Spock actually dares to call out Burnham on her gak.

Pike is good and would have made a great central character but Grand Admiral Burnham of the Universe means thats not happened. Constantly crowbarring "Silly Tilly" in is really not helping - she actualyl had character progression in Season but has regressed to the super special child in the show

 Formosa wrote:
Star trek Legacy had a cut scene with the "origin of the borg" based upon shatners take.

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anMOQ3vTy9k

I just finished this game this morning.