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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 vipoid wrote:
 Gert wrote:

Call someone an idiot in front of your boss, then direct a racial slur at them and see which you're getting fired for.


If you work for, say, The Guardian and the racial slur is 'gammon', I'd wager you'd be promoted rather than fired. Because racial slurs (which you seem to have taken as some sort of litmus test for Hate Speech) demonstrably only count if they're directed against the wrong group. Indeed, so long as you limit yourself to the "correct" targets, you can be as vicious and hateful as you like. Almost as if nebulous laws of these kind exist not to limit "hateful" speech but as a cudgel with which to beat one's political enemies.


Alas, I know that you and those like you will continue to cheer on the removal of speech and liberty, thinking you are on the "correct" side and thus will never have to fear comeuppance.

But someday you will overstep a line you never even knew existed and find yourself suddenly on the wrong side of all those laws you helped bring about. On that day, you will cry for the same liberties you helped to strip from so many others, though your cries will fall on deaf ears, and by then you will have already succeeded in silencing anyone who could have spoken out in your defence.

I know you will sneer now but that fateful day will come; and when it does, you will finally realise that brick by brick you built your own prison.
This right here, is an excellent example of a political post framed just non-politically enough to bypass Dakka's rules. We all know the political side this is representing, and we all know the political side it is directed at. This could be put straight onto a political news network without edits and it would fit perfectly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Sledgehammer wrote:
This entire situation seems incredibly self defeating from all sides. Gw shutting down free fan made content to drive people to warhammer + instead is weird. People will pay for your content if it's good. A 6 minute free video isn't going to drive consumers away. If anything it's going to get them to want more.

Getting mad at a small presumably self employed creator for being scared out of his mind by a multinational company that could ruin your life is weird as well.


Some incredible contortions going on here.....

No, he was scared by 'fans' who model themselves as 'anti-GW crusaders', and who apparently felt affronted that he 'sold-out' to their great enemy.

All GW did was offer employment to a creater who was using their property to make money.


Wow is that it? Poor guy.
Yeah, my sympathy to him. I can't fault his decision.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
40k is a large community, I don't think it has an abnormal harassment problem at all.
In fact rather the opposite.
I agree that the problem is not abnormal. It IS a problem, but it is one far from unique to Warhammer. The internet in general had already served to enable to worst kinds of communication and coupled with political trends of the past decade it has led to more people crossing the acceptable line of free speech* and doing it more egregiously.

*One's right to free speech ends when they use it to harm others.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/17 00:13:45


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Just nonsense that all the "anti-GW crusaders" never actually hurt GW just the community and individual people. Wouldn't be surprised if all the people who ended up working on the WH+ Animation stuff got kept anonymous to keep them safe.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






So much for "sticks and stones . . . "

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter






ok first of all vipod and the rest of you yammering about hate speach laws , you're making a political arguement, Kindly shut up and don't get this thread locked.

Ok secondly as for the toxicity in the culture.. it's there but I don't think it's something unique to 40k.
Diasy Ridley and Kellie Marie Tan being bullied off the internet is well known and plenty of youtubers no doubt have as well.

I'd say it's a problem with the internet not 40k TBH


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
So much for "sticks and stones . . . "


Anyone who thinks words can;t hurt is a fething moron whose never been bullied

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/17 00:25:32


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





BrianDavion wrote:

ok first of all vipod and the rest of you yammering about hate speach laws , you're making a political arguement, Kindly shut up and don't get this thread locked.

Ok secondly as for the toxicity in the culture.. it's there but I don't think it's something unique to 40k.
Diasy Ridley and Kellie Marie Tan being bullied off the internet is well known and plenty of youtubers no doubt have as well.

I'd say it's a problem with the internet not 40k TBH


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
So much for "sticks and stones . . . "


Anyone who thinks words can;t hurt is a fething moron whose never been bullied
I think there's also a degree of...... ownership involved around fan bases and intellectual property. Some companies just don't care about what they think, or actively try to get them to leave.Disney in a way went to war with its established fan base with that trilogy and the actors got the hate from the worst of them. Anyway, If you want to see what real war against a fanbase is, look at the smash melee competitive scene, now that's REALLY interesting.

I think this IS partially GWs fault for not understanding how many perceive them and their actions as a company. They do come across as a bully at times, and taking down the videos did feel like they were taking something AWAY from the audience rather than providing them with something more. I think taking down the videos was the wrong move here. Their communication of both their intentions and their product were poorly telegraphed and they failed to control the narrative that came up around it. This created an environment for toxicity to be levied at those who fell in line with "the bad guy". In no way does that excuse the behavior.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/17 00:46:47


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Insectum7 wrote:
So much for "sticks and stones . . . "


Sticks and stones always was a sentiment most often expressed by those who weren't on the receiving end of the offence.

When I was a kid, and got beaten up at school on a regular basis for being "the fat kid," my teachers always used to hit me with "Sticks and Stones." And then one day I told one of those teachers that I thought the dress code was fascist because they had a problem with an Iron Maiden back patch. And when that teacher sent me to the office, I said, "Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names aren't supposed to hurt your dress code".

Guess what?

They still sent me to the office, and pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of the statement had the effect of getting me labeled as a smart ass, rather than being evaluated for its merit within the context of civil discourse.

Similarly, when straight, white, cis-gendered men express thoughts like "That which does not kill you" or "Sticks and stones" or any of the other tropes, they themselves often cannot directly relate to the experiences of the folks with whom they are sharing this "Wisdom." I say this as a straight, white cis-gendered male because it took me a long time to figure this out, and I still make mistakes from time to time. What I've learned is that members of marginalized communities don't expect people to be PERFECT; rather, when we say something that hurts them, they just want to be able to talk about how it made them feel so that we can see their perspective, and maybe learn from it and grow.





   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope






@BrianDavion

You can't be bullied on the internet, just look away. He's a cry baby who almost took the ticket after being pressured and changed his mind after more whiners complained. He should have ignored the angry fans and gw's threats, instead he caved twice. And I bet the offer they made him was less than he currently makes doing whatever he does.

@PenitentJake Did they correct your behavior or are you still a fat smartass?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/17 00:54:00


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





PenitentJake wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
So much for "sticks and stones . . . "


Sticks and stones always was a sentiment most often expressed by those who weren't on the receiving end of the offence.

When I was a kid, and got beaten up at school on a regular basis for being "the fat kid," my teachers always used to hit me with "Sticks and Stones." And then one day I told one of those teachers that I thought the dress code was fascist because they had a problem with an Iron Maiden back patch. And when that teacher sent me to the office, I said, "Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names aren't supposed to hurt your dress code".

Guess what?

They still sent me to the office, and pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of the statement had the effect of getting me labeled as a smart ass, rather than being evaluated for its merit within the context of civil discourse.

Similarly, when straight, white, cis-gendered men express thoughts like "That which does not kill you" or "Sticks and stones" or any of the other tropes, they themselves often cannot directly relate to the experiences of the folks with whom they are sharing this "Wisdom." I say this as a straight, white cis-gendered male because it took me a long time to figure this out, and I still make mistakes from time to time. What I've learned is that members of marginalized communities don't expect people to be PERFECT; rather, when we say something that hurts them, they just want to be able to talk about how it made them feel so that we can see their perspective, and maybe learn from it and grow.





Eh it's not a gender thing Jake, even a black transsexual can sometimes lack empathy or the understanding of bullying. it's easy to forget how much words can hurt, ESPECIALLY when it's not the words so much as the repeition

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





@irkjoe: Still a smart ass, but I don't drive, and once Covid hit, I started walking everywhere instead of taking the bus. It's a 28 km round trip to the office and back home.

28 km five days a week doesn't leave a lot of fat on the body brother. Lost 50 pounds in two months. My calves are bullet proof these days.

@Brian- you are correct sir; marginalized people can and do have prejudices of their own; it bothers me, because that's how the oppressor wins- divide and conquer. I try hard to help the marginalized people I work with recognize that other marginalized people are not the enemy.

Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

People are going to believe whatever they believe. If I can make them think? That's enough.
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





This went off the deep end in less than a day. I don't think this is a new record, but it is impressive.

Setek: "My people shackled the stars, and broke mortality when the species you sprang from had barely left the slime pools it spawned in. Our wars burned reality, and the dominion of our kings is without limit. The ground you tread on is not yours; it is ours. "

Ahriman: "The Necrontyr; the sleeping ones"

Setek: "That name is not ours. Why give a name to totality?" 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
So much for "sticks and stones . . . "


Anyone who thinks words can;t hurt is a fething moron whose never been bullied




And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






There is a phenomenon that appears to be escalating now. The best and most widely understood name for it is 'cancel culture' but that term has become inextricably politicized and many people pretend the phenomenon only applies to members of one end of the political spectrum, so, it has lost meaning.

In my estimation, the cycle typically occurs like this:

1) a society is structured such that a vast amount of an individual's time is spent at a job or schooling, and they have very little time to pursue the escapist activities that bring them actual enjoyment

2) many people, faced with this problem, seek to make the escapist activities that bring them actual enjoyment into their job - creating a natural incentive for the companies that control those jobs to turn them into essentially minimum-wage employment regardless of the amount of revenue or demand for the outputs of those jobs (artistic, media, creative etc)

3) All those jobs become impossibly competitive, and the only way in is to massively publicise and create one's personal brand and attach it to one's work, while bizarrely giving up a large degree of control over that work to the corporate owners that control the output

4) People pursue those escapist outlets with an unhealthy intensity due to the misery of their day to day lives outside of those outlets, and if that outlet changes or is taken away, they experience extreme emotions and want to lash out

5) Whose personal brand is right there, linked to their creative output, and who is vulnerable enough to not have layers of multibillion dollar corporation behind them? The person who pursued creative employment and made their source of escapist enjoyment their career. As a bonus, the fact that they were ABLE to do that and presumably get to enjoy their job further infuriates the people whose escapist outlets they are perceived as responsible for changing or taking away.

I don't actually buy that just "the internet" or "phones bad" are what creates this phenomenon. I think you NEED point 1 to drive it home, and that is why countries where the largest percentages of peoples' lives are spent working - Japan, Korea, the USA - are the places where this phenomenon of creative individuals getting absolutely hate-blasted is the strongest.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






BrianDavion wrote:

ok first of all vipod and the rest of you yammering about hate speech laws , you're making a political arguement, Kindly shut up

I also I love the idea that "shut up" is employed in response to the topic of speech laws. lol.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

ok first of all vipod and the rest of you yammering about hate speech laws , you're making a political arguement, Kindly shut up

I also I love the idea that "shut up" is employed in response to the topic of speech laws. lol.


trying to prevent a few people from getting the entire thread locked. but yes I understand the irony.


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sledgehammer wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Sledgehammer wrote:
This entire situation seems incredibly self defeating from all sides. Gw shutting down free fan made content to drive people to warhammer + instead is weird. People will pay for your content if it's good. A 6 minute free video isn't going to drive consumers away. If anything it's going to get them to want more.

Getting mad at a small presumably self employed creator for being scared out of his mind by a multinational company that could ruin your life is weird as well.


Some incredible contortions going on here.....

No, he was scared by 'fans' who model themselves as 'anti-GW crusaders', and who apparently felt affronted that he 'sold-out' to their great enemy.

All GW did was offer employment to a creater who was using their property to make money.
I mean it sounds like they told him to take his videos down and didn't communicate with him very well, if at all, as to what their intentions were. It took over a month for them to actually reach out and by then the damage was done by both mal actors within the community and GW not being effectively able to communicate.

It just sounds like a lose lose for everyone.


A month for projects like this is quite quick, considering his position he was lucky to have the chance.
Just a shame, the sad part here is that one dedicated person could entirely orchestrate a harassment campaign like this. So a few people could be a nightmare.

I think star wars is worse, as there is a few popular YouTube channels that will direct a lot of attention towards people for every issue. Mostly directed towards women working for Disney but leave out the men as often they are less viable targets for the harresment.
40k has a lot of fantastic YouTube personalities that really work hard to push away from that. But a few fall into it as well really badly. 40k I don’t think brings in enough value to use that kinda content often.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

This thread has clearly run its course, and I'm just going to end it here. If anything new develops, feel free to start a new thread.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
 
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