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Not Online!!! wrote:
Honestly the old boyz didn't NEED a replacement.
there would've been other awesome stuff that GW could've updated in there.. (a biker waaaghboss or a modular MA warboss / bigmek)

come to mind...

These here boyz are just annoying in a way.

I honestly don't think the boyz have been replaced. They are still on the GW website and my guess is that they will stay there until they make a kit that can actually make 10 strong of slugga or shoota. In my mind the new kit is in similar vein to the S2D Start Collecting kit: There to reinforce, but not to replace.

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the difference in time between the two kits being launched? Could that have seen a change of approach?

The current Devastators are from 7th aren't they? Havocs are 2019. But Retributors are 2020-2021? and have 2 of each heavy weapon. The one chaincannon is the red herring. Does any other heavy weapons team have less than two of each of their options? Not troops, elites, or fast attack. Heavy weapons teams. Any others? I can't think of anything Imperial or Chaos. Maybe something Xenos?

GK purgators, for example. Cant take 4 psycanons, 4 incinerators or psilancers per squads. But there is only one of each per sprue.
Same with GK paladins and purificators.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the difference in time between the two kits being launched? Could that have seen a change of approach?

The current Devastators are from 7th aren't they? Havocs are 2019. But Retributors are 2020-2021? and have 2 of each heavy weapon. The one chaincannon is the red herring. Does any other heavy weapons team have less than two of each of their options? Not troops, elites, or fast attack. Heavy weapons teams. Any others? I can't think of anything Imperial or Chaos. Maybe something Xenos?

Historical tidbit: before it was recut, the Dev kit had 2x HB, LC, PC, but only one MM and ML. The MM being the big deal, as most SM players had a zillion MLs from all their tac squads. But if you wanted a lot of melta? Buy a lot of boxes. (Or trade, 3rd party, etc)

The current Strike Squad box has 4 psycannons, 2 incinerators, and 2 psilencers.

(Note that the webstore description is wrong, because it was never updated from when they were 5 models to a box).

Karol wrote:GK purgators, for example. Cant take 4 psycanons, 4 incinerators or psilancers per squads. But there is only one of each per sprue.
Same with GK paladins and purificators.

Ok, so that's one. And judging from this:

Lord Damocles wrote:The current Strike Squad box has 4 psycannons, 2 incinerators, and 2 psilencers.

(Note that the webstore description is wrong, because it was never updated from when they were 5 models to a box).

Grey Knights troops have more heavy weapons options than their actual heavy weapons squads? Weird.

Nevelon wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the difference in time between the two kits being launched? Could that have seen a change of approach?

The current Devastators are from 7th aren't they? Havocs are 2019. But Retributors are 2020-2021? and have 2 of each heavy weapon. The one chaincannon is the red herring. Does any other heavy weapons team have less than two of each of their options? Not troops, elites, or fast attack. Heavy weapons teams. Any others? I can't think of anything Imperial or Chaos. Maybe something Xenos?

Historical tidbit: before it was recut, the Dev kit had 2x HB, LC, PC, but only one MM and ML. The MM being the big deal, as most SM players had a zillion MLs from all their tac squads. But if you wanted a lot of melta? Buy a lot of boxes. (Or trade, 3rd party, etc)

Interesting. When were Devastators recut?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Nevelon wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the difference in time between the two kits being launched? Could that have seen a change of approach?

The current Devastators are from 7th aren't they? Havocs are 2019. But Retributors are 2020-2021? and have 2 of each heavy weapon. The one chaincannon is the red herring. Does any other heavy weapons team have less than two of each of their options? Not troops, elites, or fast attack. Heavy weapons teams. Any others? I can't think of anything Imperial or Chaos. Maybe something Xenos?

Historical tidbit: before it was recut, the Dev kit had 2x HB, LC, PC, but only one MM and ML. The MM being the big deal, as most SM players had a zillion MLs from all their tac squads. But if you wanted a lot of melta? Buy a lot of boxes. (Or trade, 3rd party, etc)

Interesting. When were Devastators recut?

I want to say 7th?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grey Knights troops have more heavy weapons options than their actual heavy weapons squads? Weird.

The Strike Squad box makes Strikes, Purgators, Interceptors, and Purifiers.

You get two psycannons and incinerators per sprue IIRC, which means you get 4 for a box of 10. You do only get one psilencer for some reason, though, so 2 per box of 10, and you can take 4 of any per 5 purgators if you build them that way.

edit: Just checked, it's actually 2 psycannons and 1 incinerator and 1 psilencer per sprue.

Nevelon wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Nevelon wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the difference in time between the two kits being launched? Could that have seen a change of approach?

The current Devastators are from 7th aren't they? Havocs are 2019. But Retributors are 2020-2021? and have 2 of each heavy weapon. The one chaincannon is the red herring. Does any other heavy weapons team have less than two of each of their options? Not troops, elites, or fast attack. Heavy weapons teams. Any others? I can't think of anything Imperial or Chaos. Maybe something Xenos?

Historical tidbit: before it was recut, the Dev kit had 2x HB, LC, PC, but only one MM and ML. The MM being the big deal, as most SM players had a zillion MLs from all their tac squads. But if you wanted a lot of melta? Buy a lot of boxes. (Or trade, 3rd party, etc)

Interesting. When were Devastators recut?

I want to say 7th?

Ok, so that's why I'm getting 7th edition as their release date when I look it up. Thanks.

Lord Damocles wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grey Knights troops have more heavy weapons options than their actual heavy weapons squads? Weird.

The Strike Squad box makes Strikes, Purgators, Interceptors, and Purifiers.

Ok, I see that now. And two sets of sprues per box.

yukishiro1 wrote:You get two psycannons and incinerators per sprue IIRC, which means you get 4 for a box of 10. You do only get one psilencer for some reason, though, so 2 per box of 10, and you can take 4 of any per 5 purgators if you build them that way.

edit: Just checked, it's actually 2 psycannons and 1 incinerator and 1 psilencer per sprue.

So, 2 per box, 2 $60 boxes gets you enough for a full squad of them. So, again, only CSM need 4 $55 boxes of Havocs for a full squad of chaincannons. When did the Grey Knights box go to 10 models per box?

 Nevelon wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Nevelon wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the difference in time between the two kits being launched? Could that have seen a change of approach?

The current Devastators are from 7th aren't they? Havocs are 2019. But Retributors are 2020-2021? and have 2 of each heavy weapon. The one chaincannon is the red herring. Does any other heavy weapons team have less than two of each of their options? Not troops, elites, or fast attack. Heavy weapons teams. Any others? I can't think of anything Imperial or Chaos. Maybe something Xenos?

Historical tidbit: before it was recut, the Dev kit had 2x HB, LC, PC, but only one MM and ML. The MM being the big deal, as most SM players had a zillion MLs from all their tac squads. But if you wanted a lot of melta? Buy a lot of boxes. (Or trade, 3rd party, etc)

Interesting. When were Devastators recut?

I want to say 7th?

Yeah 7th was the edition Devastators got access to Grav Cannons, rather than them just being available on Centurions, which was 6th iirc.

Incidentally 7th was mytseriously when our local leading Tyranid player quit, since Grav Cannons were the specific answer to monstrous creatures.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Nevelon wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the difference in time between the two kits being launched? Could that have seen a change of approach?

The current Devastators are from 7th aren't they? Havocs are 2019. But Retributors are 2020-2021? and have 2 of each heavy weapon. The one chaincannon is the red herring. Does any other heavy weapons team have less than two of each of their options? Not troops, elites, or fast attack. Heavy weapons teams. Any others? I can't think of anything Imperial or Chaos. Maybe something Xenos?

Historical tidbit: before it was recut, the Dev kit had 2x HB, LC, PC, but only one MM and ML. The MM being the big deal, as most SM players had a zillion MLs from all their tac squads. But if you wanted a lot of melta? Buy a lot of boxes. (Or trade, 3rd party, etc)

Interesting. When were Devastators recut?

I want to say 7th?

Yeah 7th was the edition Devastators got access to Grav Cannons, rather than them just being available on Centurions, which was 6th iirc.

Incidentally 7th was mytseriously when our local leading Tyranid player quit, since Grav Cannons were the specific answer to monstrous creatures.

Grav guns were 6th edition's reason to buy more tac squads. “We know all the marine players already own twice as many tactical marines as they can fit into a list, but here is a new overpowered gun you are going to want.” Alternatively, you could get them in the new sternguard kit (which was 5 guys for $50, but also an awesome kit packed with extras)

Who needs a while new line of marine kits when you can get the same results just by adding a single bit to a recut sprue.

Iirc Grav guns were available in 6th, yeah. But Grav Cannons weren't rolled out to power armored marines until 7th.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Incidentally 7th was mytseriously when our local leading Tyranid player quit, since Grav Cannons were the specific answer to monstrous creatures.

He'd be more annoyed now, as the specific answer to monstrous creatures in 8th/9th is "basically anything".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Incidentally 7th was mytseriously when our local leading Tyranid player quit, since Grav Cannons were the specific answer to monstrous creatures.

He's be more annoyed now, as the specific answer to monstrous creatures in 8th/9th is "basically anything".

yeah. . . Vehicles too. The new wound chart is a definite downgrade. At least MCs aren't managing 2++ toenail cover saves anymore.

 Insectum7 wrote:
At least MCs aren't managing 2++ toenail cover saves anymore.

But we have to instead contend with LOS cover rules that make this Hive Tyrant untargetable, but this Hive Tyrant completely visible.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
At least MCs aren't managing 2++ toenail cover saves anymore.

But we have to instead contend with LOS cover rules that make this Hive Tyrant untargetable, but this Hive Tyrant completely visible.

Lol, beautiful illustrations . To be perfectly honest I'm totally fine with that aspect of the current paradigm, aside from things like wingtips being targetable.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
At least MCs aren't managing 2++ toenail cover saves anymore.

But we have to instead contend with LOS cover rules that make this Hive Tyrant untargetable, but this Hive Tyrant completely visible.

The esoterics of 40K LOS is beyond my mind capabilities... could you please explain this two images???

The building is more than 5" tall and obscuring, so anything (non-titanic) not within the building area but behind it is invisible, even if the actual model is higher than 5".

BUT that only covers things on the Y axis. If you can see the tip of a claw hanging out to the sides, you can shoot at it no problem.

If it sticks out of the top of a ruin, it will be obscured because obscuring terrain has "infinite" height.

If it sticks out to the side, it will not be obscured and exactly the same as out in the open.

That's what you get when you try to make terrain rules both abstract and realistic at the same time. Still a better solution than the last four editions combined.

Goose LeChance wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
I did provide a solution. Don''t like it? Don't buy it.

Well, I guess then you need to shut up since I don't mind a good model being mono-pose and I am clearly following your advice.

Is there a Dakka Poll for how many people on here are former/current GW employees or stockholders by the way?

"I can't be wrong! You must be the ones that are wrong! Who paid you to not have he same incoherent and self-contradicing opinion as me!"

I know you're upset because this isn't going the way you want it to and your trying to bait a thread lock but can you please calm down?

I won't be shutting up

I don’t know what your reading but so far this whole thread is you whining that you don’t like the new models and others saying they do. And you hating on GW. We get it but you aren’t “winning” any arguments here.

Actual supposed facts,

Monopose doesn’t mean singular pose or only one pose possible apparently. It means no chance to reposition at the waist, unless it’s admech or genestealer cults, then it’s fine. But DEFINITELY not marines, they must have a waist or be monopose regardless of the number of poses possible.

The new ORK boyz are actually monopose. Push to fit.

The old ORK boyz are still available. Not monopose. (Even got a waist joint that can be positioned as unrealistically as you like).

Some people like one style, others the other, some just like cool models.

I don’t work for or own shares in GW. I just like their products. Even the new boyz.

According to the poll most people agree with me and not you. Doesn’t make you wrong, just in the minority.

Goose LeChance wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

I am with you on the former, but must disagree on the latter. I am assembling some of the new Flayed Ones, and they are the most tedious, finicky kits to assemble I have ever seen from GWS. The 6 armed cowboy necron guy was not as fiddly, but certainly much more complex than any previous Necrons.

They are beautiful, sure... but very much not easier to assemble, let alone "much easier to assemble".

Somehow GW models are getting more monopose but also more complicated to put together. It's genius! Haters gonna hate.

... yes? The old necrons had preassembled legs, often; a nearly push-fit torso, the arms and wrists had a pin and socket setup, and the head just went on. A Necron warrior was 6 pieces that were very simple to assemble and nearly foolproof.

The Flayed One I just worked on is 11 pieces, and the fitment is very different - like, the legs are kind of a raised area that just barely fits into an indentation, but it's very smooth surfacing so you can easily screw it up, and then the model will not be standing straight. It's not my first rodeo so I'm doing lots of dry-fitting to make sure it's right before I apply glue. I'm not even sure this is a complaint, per se - I like building models so more challenge is kinda OK - but they are substantially more difficult to assemble than before, not easier.

I didn't make the argument they're getting more monopose, Necron Warriors (for example) were already basically monopose anyway.

Also, you're saying haters going to hate as a response to me saying in that the models are more beautiful, so I don't even know where that came from. I don't have any real issues with "monopose" as a concept, if it's made of plastic it can be easily cut and reposed so whatever really on that front.