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Made in us
Pious Palatine




drakerocket wrote:
It's very unlikely she gets bloody rose. And 'kills guard squad' is a painfully low barrier for a 200 point melee unit, same with 'kill an intercessor squad'. The standard bloody rose cannoness does it and she's 65 (albeit with a relic and WLT).

I like the model, I like the concept. Honestly, I'd actually root pretty hard for her to not have much more than shown and clock in closer to like 175. Much more usable if she does.


I mean, she also kills just about any infantry character in one round while not dying herself so...there's that.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




No one really uses melee infantry characters for fighting. A succubus would eat her. I guess dra'zar might have a tough time though I don't think she kills him back. I can't really think of any other 'meta' melee characters.

Also comparing her to calgar is silly. No one takes him and he is quite bad. If she were just as good as calgar, no one would take her.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




drakerocket wrote:
No one really uses melee infantry characters for fighting. A succubus would eat her. I guess dra'zar might have a tough time though I don't think she kills him back. I can't really think of any other 'meta' melee characters.

Also comparing her to calgar is silly. No one takes him and he is quite bad. If she were just as good as calgar, no one would take her.


She kills a succubus in one round and doesn't die to return hits. Literally any character that has 6 wounds and a 4++ she kills on average dice between her rerolls and the passion.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Um. She totally dies to return hits; and the succubus is going to fight first. It's not a super fair comparison, razorflail comp edge is nutters, but they exist and are prevalent.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




drakerocket wrote:
Um. She totally dies to return hits; and the succubus is going to fight first. It's not a super fair comparison, razorflail comp edge is nutters, but they exist and are prevalent.


Succubus is slower than Abbess thanks to easy run and charge. Abbess fights first unless succ has draz or Vexor. Course Succ also just dies to her shooting too so it's not hugely relevant.

Also with her damage reduction she's on average more survivable than Guillamen, who survives against the full succ combo about a quarter of the time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/15 10:28:42



 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




Bored of current stuff and the Abbess, let's talk the new units:

Melee Celestians: Potential to totally replace repentia if their output is even 70% of what a Repentia's is. Even failing that they could see significant play in more midrange or footslog bloody rose lists with the shield and actual full power armor being able to fully utilize both imagifier buffs. Unlikely to be of any significant use outside of bloody rose lists though.

Nundams: If they're vehicles they'll be competing directly with Mortifiers which would be unfortunate. Even with being able to benefit from more buffs than the morties, they'd have to be very competitively costed to compete with Morties having double the firepower and likely very comparable melee.

If infantry, could potentially completely eclipse morties and become a new meta option.

Dogmata: Sisters Chaplain unlikely to see play considering how stacked sisters are for buff characters. The only niche would be for allowing retributors to cap objectives and shoot in the same turn (I assume that's what her 'actions' focused ability is)

Banner chick: Probably just an ancient. Unlikely to be useful.

Castigator: Guaranteed trash. In fact so trash that in attempting to make it not trash they'll make the Exorcist (which is outclassed by retributors but distinctly NOT trash) trash.


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





I highly doubt the Celestians will replace Repentia. Its an offensive vs defensive CC unit.

Repentia will most likely be cheaper and have more output. That efficiency and ability to consistently trade up matters a lot more then their ability to survive after making contact.

Same reason why I can see them having a good place outside of Bloody Rose. They are a tough melee unit that stand on an objective and say "come get me". The extra AP doesn't change their ability to soak up a charge.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

ERJAK wrote:
Bored of current stuff and the Abbess, let's talk the new units:

Melee Celestians: Potential to totally replace repentia if their output is even 70% of what a Repentia's is. Even failing that they could see significant play in more midrange or footslog bloody rose lists with the shield and actual full power armor being able to fully utilize both imagifier buffs. Unlikely to be of any significant use outside of bloody rose lists though.

Nundams: If they're vehicles they'll be competing directly with Mortifiers which would be unfortunate. Even with being able to benefit from more buffs than the morties, they'd have to be very competitively costed to compete with Morties having double the firepower and likely very comparable melee.

If infantry, could potentially completely eclipse morties and become a new meta option.

Dogmata: Sisters Chaplain unlikely to see play considering how stacked sisters are for buff characters. The only niche would be for allowing retributors to cap objectives and shoot in the same turn (I assume that's what her 'actions' focused ability is)

Banner chick: Probably just an ancient. Unlikely to be useful.

Castigator: Guaranteed trash. In fact so trash that in attempting to make it not trash they'll make the Exorcist (which is outclassed by retributors but distinctly NOT trash) trash.

I'll reply to each of these:
Celestian Sacresants (the melee girls): Depends on points, but hopefully they won't completely outclass Repentia. Repentia are currently a "cruise missile" type unit, which obliterates one thing completely and then dies. The Sacresants are probably a true brawler unit, able to dish out pain and take it in return. The points costs will probably tell the tale though, and who knows whether these or Repentia will have CORE (that will matter a lot). I definitely agree about the Bloody Rose thing though; that order is the best place for any melee unit. Melee units feel very anemic in any other order.

Paragon Warsuits (Nundams): I expect Mortifiers to get some kind of a nerf, either a points hike or loss of BS/WS or something. Even if not, it could be similar to the Sacresants/Repentia comparison, in that these are far better defensively, but weaker offensively. Of course, Morties are not terrible defensively either. If Paragons get CORE, they'll outclass Morties as they benefit from a lot more buffs, strats, and special rules. Again, it may come down to relative points costs.

Dogmata: Agree on this one. Sisters are already loaded with buff characters; we don't need more of them. Maybe this one will be better than an Imagifier, maybe not, but unless the Imagifier gets weaker somehow and the special rules for the Dogmata make her a really strong choice, she's probably skippable.

Banner bearer: I doubt she'll be "just an ancient" but like the Dogmata there may not be a place for her. Also, I got the impression that she's a unique character, so we'll have to see what keywords she has.

Castigator: I have to agree somewhat here; tanks in general are not great due to not having CORE and the existence of units like Eradicators, Attack Bikes, Plasma Inceptors, Retributors, and more recently Drukhari's new and improved Dark Lances. Plus these have to compete for Heavy slots with Retributors, Exorcists, and Mortifiers. If it's competitively costed, it could be okay, but even then it'll be iffy.

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 Ordana wrote:
I highly doubt the Celestians will replace Repentia. Its an offensive vs defensive CC unit.

Repentia will most likely be cheaper and have more output. That efficiency and ability to consistently trade up matters a lot more then their ability to survive after making contact.

Same reason why I can see them having a good place outside of Bloody Rose. They are a tough melee unit that stand on an objective and say "come get me". The extra AP doesn't change their ability to soak up a charge.


It comes down to a price-output-defense equation. If it ends up that the Celestians can still kill most of the things repentia end up going against for similar points, the extra longevity could crowd repentia out.

I disagree on the second point. No melee unit that benefits from bloody rose will ever see meaningful play outside of it. If they're costed appropriately at +1A +1AP with the best melee stratagem in the book, there's no way they're not heavily overcosted without it. Or vice versa, they're costed fairly without and BUSTED with it.

The idea that any T3 W1 unit could 'soak up the charge' of anything is ridiculous. They couls have a 2++ and still die to assault intercessors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Bored of current stuff and the Abbess, let's talk the new units:

Melee Celestians: Potential to totally replace repentia if their output is even 70% of what a Repentia's is. Even failing that they could see significant play in more midrange or footslog bloody rose lists with the shield and actual full power armor being able to fully utilize both imagifier buffs. Unlikely to be of any significant use outside of bloody rose lists though.

Nundams: If they're vehicles they'll be competing directly with Mortifiers which would be unfortunate. Even with being able to benefit from more buffs than the morties, they'd have to be very competitively costed to compete with Morties having double the firepower and likely very comparable melee.

If infantry, could potentially completely eclipse morties and become a new meta option.

Dogmata: Sisters Chaplain unlikely to see play considering how stacked sisters are for buff characters. The only niche would be for allowing retributors to cap objectives and shoot in the same turn (I assume that's what her 'actions' focused ability is)

Banner chick: Probably just an ancient. Unlikely to be useful.

Castigator: Guaranteed trash. In fact so trash that in attempting to make it not trash they'll make the Exorcist (which is outclassed by retributors but distinctly NOT trash) trash.

I'll reply to each of these:

Celestian Sacresants (the melee girls): Depends on points, but hopefully they won't completely outclass Repentia. Repentia are currently a "cruise missile" type unit, which obliterates one thing completely and then dies. The Sacresants are probably a true brawler unit, able to dish out pain and take it in return. The points costs will probably tell the tale though, and who knows whether these or Repentia will have CORE (that will matter a lot). I definitely agree about the Bloody Rose thing though; that order is the best place for any melee unit. Melee units feel very anemic in any other order.

Paragon Warsuits (Nundams): I expect Mortifiers to get some kind of a nerf, either a points hike or loss of BS/WS or something. Even if not, it could be similar to the Sacresants/Repentia comparison, in that these are far better defensively, but weaker offensively. Of course, Morties are not terrible defensively either. If Paragons get CORE, they'll outclass Morties as they benefit from a lot more buffs, strats, and special rules. Again, it may come down to relative points costs.

Dogmata: Agree on this one. Sisters are already loaded with buff characters; we don't need more of them. Maybe this one will be better than an Imagifier, maybe not, but unless the Imagifier gets weaker somehow and the special rules for the Dogmata make her a really strong choice, she's probably skippable.

Banner bearer: I doubt she'll be "just an ancient" but like the Dogmata there may not be a place for her. Also, I got the impression that she's a unique character, so we'll have to see what keywords she has.

Castigator: I have to agree somewhat here; tanks in general are not great due to not having CORE and the existence of units like Eradicators, Attack Bikes, Plasma Inceptors, Retributors, and more recently Drukhari's new and improved Dark Lances. Plus these have to compete for Heavy slots with Retributors, Exorcists, and Mortifiers. If it's competitively costed, it could be okay, but even then it'll be iffy.


I actually doubt CORE will matter for repentia. Instead of taking a preacher, you'll take a repetia superior. It's a small nerf ultimately.

In fact, I don't personally think CORE will matter much at all. Almost of the units who even have a chance to not get core, tend to function mostly independently already. It's not like morties for example could benefit from reroll 1s before and nundams will have to deal with Canoness, etc either being inside a vehicle or falling behind. Obvious exception is vehicles. CORE will suck for exos and castis.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/18 21:55:55



 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think the big thing people are forgetting is that we don't know if/how GW will change Orders and the associated buffs. BR could be different enough to where it's no longer an automatic BIS Order meaning that Repentia will probably be just as good in the other orders.

Orders and Warlord Traits and Stratagems are going to change. Even if the datasheets stay the same (and we know they aren't because of leaks) Sisters lists are going to change. Maybe not much, maybe a lot depending on Order Convictions, MD, what buffs the Banner and the Dogmata hand out, how Imagifiers and Dialogi change, and how Sacred Rights change.

Just the change to mecanics is going to change up how we play Sisters. It's fun to speculate on individual units but lets wait until we at least get a "leak" pertaining to the aforementioned mechanics of Sisters.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




jivardi wrote:
I think the big thing people are forgetting is that we don't know if/how GW will change Orders and the associated buffs. BR could be different enough to where it's no longer an automatic BIS Order meaning that Repentia will probably be just as good in the other orders.

Orders and Warlord Traits and Stratagems are going to change. Even if the datasheets stay the same (and we know they aren't because of leaks) Sisters lists are going to change. Maybe not much, maybe a lot depending on Order Convictions, MD, what buffs the Banner and the Dogmata hand out, how Imagifiers and Dialogi change, and how Sacred Rights change.

Just the change to mecanics is going to change up how we play Sisters. It's fun to speculate on individual units but lets wait until we at least get a "leak" pertaining to the aforementioned mechanics of Sisters.


So we sort of have to make the assumption here that even something that sees changes will stay in roughly the same spirit (i.e. Bloody rose will continue to be the melee favoring order and valorous heart will be the defensive favoring order) because analysis is a giant waste of time if we have to try and account for something like bloody rose becoming the 'increase the AP and S of heavy weapons by 1' Order. Obviously the changes could be completely sweeping. We could technically have S6 AP-4 bolters or 2++invuls, so we have to make some assumptions. In that vain:

I believe that the book will not be significantly different outside of the new units, toned down miracle dice(dammit) and some adjustments to a few relics, warlord traits, stratagems, and the weakest Order traits. There will be significant changes to the way list buidling works but the core of how the army functions will not change. Based on this assumption:

Anything less than current bloody rose will cause repentia to see vastly reduced play, assuming no datasheet rewrite. If they tune BR down so that Repentia don't massively overperform as BR relative to the other orders, both BR and repentia won't have the crazy math behind them they do right now and they'll see significantly less use.

If they tune up the other order melee bonuses, repentia(and to a lesser extent BR) will most likely be crowded out by more defensively efficient options like Sacrosancts/Valorous Heart. Remeber that 'just as good in other orders' is much more likely to mean 'just as terrible as they are in valorous heart' than it is 'just as good as they are in bloody rose.'

And the whole point of speculation is to...speculate about things. Waiting until you get all the information to speculate is like waiting until your shift starts to drive to work. You've already missed your chance.

Absolutely speculate now, just don't buy anything or lock in lists for december tournaments yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/21 21:55:31



 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




We also get custom orders, so...

   
Made in us
Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator





From an Italian MFM MK2 leak shared on Reddit. Key parts...
  • Celestine and her Geminae are back to one unit
  • Zephyrim are now fast attack (yay!)
  • They moved to make room for Paragons, who are elite (oof!)
  • Morven Vahl is 265
  • Nullrods and Simulacrums cost points again
  • Condemnor bolt guns are now the same as a heavy bolter (lol wut), so this hopefully portends a rule change
  • No more special Seraphim hand flamer price
  • Possible typo for Paragons price
  • New mechanic called Blessings/Benedictions of the Faithful (translation iffy), but an Italian speaker in the thread confirmed that some of these have the same name as current Sacred Rites from the Italian release
  • Same Italian speaker pointed out that some weapons, like storm bolters and some flamers have a new name in their entries - they aren't convinced this means anything but flavour, citing what they've seen in other GW Italian releases
  • Battle Sister Squads now 5-20 unit size
  • Missionary can take a power maul, and Preacher has the same weapon option listed as Pious Vorne from Blackstone, so that's kinda neat
  • Notable large point jumps for both the Triumph and Battle Sanctum hopefully suggest new rules for each


  • Deets behind spoiler:

    Spoiler:
    Down

    Preachers down 10
    Missionary down 5
    Brazier down 5
    Palatine down 5
    Crusaders down 5
    Repentia down 2 (and listed as 4-10 model units?)
    Zephyrim down 1
    Arcos down 2
    Exorcist down 15
    Retributors down 2
    Immolator down 5, but only the HB loadout. Immolation flamer is now 10 points (130 total), and the twin multi-melta jumped to 30 points (150 total)

    Up

    Condemnor Boltguns now 10
    Null Rods now 10
    Storm Bolters now 5
    Simulacrums back to 5
    Battle Sanctum up 25
    Penitent Engine up 5
    Hand Flamer now 5 for Seraphim
    Triumph up 25
    Junith up 15
    Celestine up 30 to 200, but includes both Geminae now

    New units

    Morven Vahl is 265
    Aestred & Dolan are 90
    Paragons appear to be locked at 3 member units and 240 for the unit, 10 per MM upgrade
    Dogmata is 65
    Sacresants are 14, with upgrades including a plasma pistol, hand flamer, inferno pistol, or a 'spear of faith'? (translation may be off)
    Castigator is 160 with 5 for battle cannon, 5 for HK missile, and 5 for storm bolter
    New mechanic - blessings/benedictions of the faithful - looks to be the unit/HQ upgrade table everybody gets in 9th these days. Translations are iffy here...
    25 Possessed Shots?
    25 Judgment of the Just?
    20 Grace of the Emperor?
    15 Divine Liberation?
    40 Word of the Emperor?
    30 Binding Radiance?




    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/30 14:42:56


     
       
    Made in us
    Pious Palatine




     Vilgeir wrote:
    From an Italian MFM MK2 leak shared on Reddit. Key parts...
  • Celestine and her Geminae are back to one unit
  • Zephyrim are now fast attack (yay!)
  • They moved to make room for Paragons, who are elite (oof!)
  • Morven Vahl is 265
  • Nullrods and Simulacrums cost points again
  • Condemnor bolt guns are now the same as a heavy bolter (lol wut), so this hopefully portends a rule change
  • No more special Seraphim hand flamer price
  • Possible typo for Paragons price
  • New mechanic called Blessings/Benedictions of the Faithful (translation iffy), but an Italian speaker in the thread confirmed that some of these have the same name as current Sacred Rites from the Italian release
  • Same Italian speaker pointed out that some weapons, like storm bolters and some flamers have a new name in their entries - they aren't convinced this means anything but flavour, citing what they've seen in other GW Italian releases
  • Battle Sister Squads now 5-20 unit size
  • Missionary can take a power maul, and Preacher has the same weapon option listed as Pious Vorne from Blackstone, so that's kinda neat
  • Notable large point jumps for both the Triumph and Battle Sanctum hopefully suggest new rules for each


  • Deets behind spoiler:

    Spoiler:
    Down

    Preachers down 10
    Missionary down 5
    Brazier down 5
    Palatine down 5
    Crusaders down 5
    Repentia down 2 (and listed as 4-10 model units?)
    Zephyrim down 1
    Arcos down 2
    Exorcist down 15
    Retributors down 2
    Immolator down 5, but only the HB loadout. Immolation flamer is now 10 points (130 total), and the twin multi-melta jumped to 30 points (150 total)

    Up

    Condemnor Boltguns now 10
    Null Rods now 10
    Storm Bolters now 5
    Simulacrums back to 5
    Battle Sanctum up 25
    Penitent Engine up 5
    Hand Flamer now 5 for Seraphim
    Triumph up 25
    Junith up 15
    Celestine up 30 to 200, but includes both Geminae now

    New units

    Morven Vahl is 265
    Aestred & Dolan are 90
    Paragons appear to be locked at 3 member units and 240 for the unit, 10 per MM upgrade
    Dogmata is 65
    Sacresants are 14, with upgrades including a plasma pistol, hand flamer, inferno pistol, or a 'spear of faith'? (translation may be off)
    Castigator is 160 with 5 for battle cannon, 5 for HK missile, and 5 for storm bolter
    New mechanic - blessings/benedictions of the faithful - looks to be the unit/HQ upgrade table everybody gets in 9th these days. Translations are iffy here...
    25 Possessed Shots?
    25 Judgment of the Just?
    20 Grace of the Emperor?
    15 Divine Liberation?
    40 Word of the Emperor?
    30 Binding Radiance?






    The more I think about it the less convinced I am that Morven will be any good. Her aura ability is done better by cheaper models, her melee ability is fine but a properly kitted canoness can do roughly the same damage (if not significantly more against some targets) her targeted buff isn't particularly great when you figure retributors almost certainly take a big nerf here. At 265 she has to buff better than the triumph+ a Palantine, fight better than the triumph+ a Palantine, and survive more damage than the Triumph+ a Palantine.

    As for the rest of it: Zephyrim and Celestine changes are amazing, preachers and missionaries definitely lost something to be that cheap (my guess is +1 attack aura), bloody rose is likely seeing a nerf going by the changes to Repentia, Retributors are definitely seeing a nerf, either removal of run and shoot or storm of fire, storm bolters are trash, immolator changes don't make any sense, why reduce the chassis price if you're just going to raise the cost of guns only it can use? Triumph better have gotten some serious rules fixes because that bump kills it otherwise, same but moreso for the battle sanctum.

    Castigator is gak, 165pts for a rhino chassis with a battlecannon is awful, the immolator is more point efficient and immolators are a solid 25-35pts overpriced themselves. If the leaked profile is accurate, Exorcists are at best mediocre, even assuming indirect fire. With the old profile, they might be a viable choice again.

    Battle hymns are either a much bigger deal than they've shown so far or all the characters that have access to them are shelf decorations. 90pts for an 'Ancient' you can't give relics to? 10+ point bumps on characters that weren't seeing any play anyway? I don't like it at all. They're pushing the price of these characters for buffs that not only aren't particularly strong but also can fail to go off at critical junctures.

    Overall I'm more worried about the codex than I was. They appear to have shifted some of the army's power away from reliable sources towards (stupid) 'Roll a 3+ to see if you can warhammer today!' buffs.


     
       
    Made in us
    Regular Dakkanaut




    Yeah, I am really not getting the excitement around vahl. I can't see why I would want her.

    The nundams are also weird. This a very strange meta to want 80 point vehicles in. I was hoping for something more like terminators. Maybe they will have something to make them bonkers tough like halving damage.

    Still all that being said no codex has yet been a nerf so I don't think it is likely this one will be either.
       
    Made in us
    Pious Palatine




    drakerocket wrote:
    Yeah, I am really not getting the excitement around vahl. I can't see why I would want her.

    The nundams are also weird. This a very strange meta to want 80 point vehicles in. I was hoping for something more like terminators. Maybe they will have something to make them bonkers tough like halving damage.

    Still all that being said no codex has yet been a nerf so I don't think it is likely this one will be either.


    Depends on the timetable and your definition of 'codex'. Our beta codex wasn't even CLOSE to as good as the index list was.


     
       
    Made in fr
    Regular Dakkanaut




    ERJAK wrote:


    The more I think about it the less convinced I am that Morven will be any good. Her aura ability is done better by cheaper models, her melee ability is fine but a properly kitted canoness can do roughly the same damage (if not significantly more against some targets) her targeted buff isn't particularly great when you figure retributors almost certainly take a big nerf here. At 265 she has to buff better than the triumph+ a Palantine, fight better than the triumph+ a Palantine, and survive more damage than the Triumph+ a Palantine.
    She has the proper price for her profile compared to other armies, i think.
    But like all 200-350 characters, the point investment for a model that will be targeted and erased turn 1 is not worth it. Same for triumph who got a totally undeserved price hike.

    immolator changes don't make any sense, why reduce the chassis price if you're just going to raise the cost of guns only it can use?triumph better have gotten some serious rules fixes because that bump kills it otherwise, same but moreso for the battle sanctum.
    Castigator is gak, 165pts for a rhino chassis with a battlecannon is awful, the immolator is more point efficient and immolators are a solid 25-35pts overpriced themselves. If the leaked profile is accurate, Exorcists are at best mediocre, even assuming indirect fire. With the old profile, they might be a viable choice again.
    I agree, all Sister tanks are now overpriced for their defensive profile. They all need at least a 30 pts reduction to be considered (more like 40).

    Battle hymns are either a much bigger deal than they've shown so far or all the characters that have access to them are shelf decorations. 90pts for an 'Ancient' you can't give relics to? 10+ point bumps on characters that weren't seeing any play anyway? I don't like it at all. They're pushing the price of these characters for buffs that not only aren't particularly strong but also can fail to go off at critical junctures.
    Yeah can't believe that they actually raised characters points.... at best they should have stayed the same. They all have no offensive abilities to speak of, barely better than a celestian superior, and oly offer one weak ability that nobody care about.

    Overall I'm more worried about the codex than I was. They appear to have shifted some of the army's power away from reliable sources towards (stupid) 'Roll a 3+ to see if you can warhammer today!' buffs.
    That's the feeling i get overall. Cool looking, overpriced models, which will fall to the lightest sneeze, and struggle at damaging anything outside of aura stacking and lucky rolls.

    Alsp, no word from miracle dice yet, but rumour has it they'll be nerfed.

    This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/05/30 16:12:14


     
       
    Made in us
    Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator





    Don't lose your minds over a glimpse into the Codex, please - that wasn't the reason I was sharing.
       
    Made in us
    Fixture of Dakka






     Vilgeir wrote:
    Don't lose your minds over a glimpse into the Codex, please - that wasn't the reason I was sharing.


    Yep there is so much we don't know. But when I see Repentia are cheaper i think, why? Do they use Keywords? Do they not benefit from MD or Sacred Rites anymore like Acros? Or is it that 9th as a whole has been powered creeped up? Over all not worth really diving heavily into other than more questions which will be answered soon enough anyways.

       
    Made in us
    Pious Palatine




     Vilgeir wrote:
    Don't lose your minds over a glimpse into the Codex, please - that wasn't the reason I was sharing.


    This is inference and speculation, not 'losing our minds'. Negative opinion isn't inherently hysterical. The changes we've seen so far hint at a slightly negative context around them. That's all we said (with admittedly some gamer-y terminology like 'trash' making it seem more dramatic than it actually is.)

    Still, saying 'I'm not a huge fan of the general trends I'm seeing' is not in any way 'losing your mind'.

    Can I just say that there's a really weird double standard about this kind of thing too? Like I could have come out and said 'FETH YA, WE"RE GONNA WIN EVERY EVENT, EVERY UNIT IN THE BOOK IS TOP TIER COMPETITIVE, THIS BOOK IS LIKE IF METH AND COCAINE HAD A BABY WITH NUTELLA AND SMOOTH JAZZ!!!!!" and that would ACTUALLY be losing my mind but no one would say that. People respond with 'Well boy howdy I sure do hope so! Shucks!'

    But say 'I don't think bloody rose is going to be as good as it was in the previous book' and people are suddenly like 'DROP THE KNIFE MAN! I KNOW THIS ISN'T YOU OKAY?! I KNOW YOU DON'T WANNA HURT NOBODY SO JUST CALM DOWN MAN! WE CAN TALK THIS OUT!'

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/30 18:14:19



     
       
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    Uhh okay. Moving on.

    After seeing the English page, the prefixes the Italian guy suspected were just flavour text seem to actually point at new weapon profiles.

    Storm bolters are now "Artificer-crafted storm bolter" and all flamer weapons have "Ministorum" in the name, including the combi, hand, and gravy varieties. This rarely happens without a corresponding profile change.

    There is absolutely a typo for the Paragons, unfortunately. Hopefully it doesn't show up in the Codex, but it'll be sorted before it matters anyway.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/30 21:27:44


     
       
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    Having seen the CA points for Sister, the Paragon Warsuits has no typo's. Its 1 unit of 3 models for 240pts, just like some of the marine units (Outriders and Suppressors or example), now this might NOT be intended, but it doesn't look out of place, they have boxes with 2 Armigers, 3 Paragons will be easy to box.

    I also notice that Morvenn Vahl is not a Lord of War.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/30 23:30:02


       
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    Not sure that's the case, Amishprn86. It says...

    Unit size - 3 models
    Unit cost - 240 pts/model

    The Outriders and Suppressor entries aren't consistent. One shows the full price of the unit, while the other separates it by model like that. I don't think anybody will realistically argue that the Paragon unit should be 720 points though so no worries.

    That's a good point about Morvenn. Shouldn't affect including her in a supreme command detachment if you want. Wildly speculating that she has the supreme commander keyword.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/31 00:21:06


     
       
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     Vilgeir wrote:
    Not sure that's the case, Amishprn86. It says...

    Unit size - 3 models
    Unit cost - 240 pts/model

    The Outriders and Suppressor entries aren't consistent. One shows the full price of the unit, while the other separates it by model like that. I don't think anybody will realistically argue that the Paragon unit should be 720 points though so no worries.

    That's a good point about Morvenn. Shouldn't affect including her in a supreme command detachment if you want. Wildly speculating that she has the supreme commander keyword.


    Oh it says per model lol.

       
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    Well, if this WarCom article isn't in error, Paragon war suits are completely immune to 1D attacks:

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/01/the-adepta-sororitas-latest-reinforcements-just-love-whacking-things-with-giant-maces/
       
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    Taikishi wrote:
    Well, if this WarCom article isn't in error, Paragon war suits are completely immune to 1D attacks:

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/01/the-adepta-sororitas-latest-reinforcements-just-love-whacking-things-with-giant-maces/
    Wouldn't be the first time the blurp in a community article isn't fully what the actual book says.
    I would hold that excitement for now.
       
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    WarCom are for peaks not actual rules. They been wrong many other times or have left out information to get the point across.

    So don't take everything to heart, its just the idea and feel.

       
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    Zero chance they're immune to D1 weapons. Vahl isn't, and she has a better suit than they do. It's 100% a typo, though whether it's a typo with the article or the codex itself, with GW's track record, who knows?
       
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     Vilgeir wrote:
    Not sure that's the case, Amishprn86. It says...

    Unit size - 3 models
    Unit cost - 240 pts/model

    The Outriders and Suppressor entries aren't consistent. One shows the full price of the unit, while the other separates it by model like that. I don't think anybody will realistically argue that the Paragon unit should be 720 points though so no worries.

    That's a good point about Morvenn. Shouldn't affect including her in a supreme command detachment if you want. Wildly speculating that she has the supreme commander keyword.


    Unfortunately as written that IS what it says...And while one could hope people are reasonable there were actual tournaments that enforced that GSC players paid 40 pts for 1W chaff models becuase GW typo'ed 0 into the point cost...

    Obviously there will be errata but as GSC debacle showed there IS need for even this obvious errata. Tournament organizers won't errata themselves even that obvious typoes.

    Ditto for the -1 dam thing. If that IS actual text from codex and not just partial then that will need errata. If there's tournament before errata shows up you can bet somebody will try to pull that stunt and odds are good TO will just shrug and say okay.

    But luckily even I don't expect GW to not errata those two (assuming -1 dam needs errata. Could be just warcom article do "blaa blaa" and skip part of text from the codex)

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/02 11:54:16


    2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
       
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    Based on today's article, we're most likely losing Blade of Admonition to Crusade only. I'm also a bit angry that instead of getting a generic saint for those who may not want to use Celestine in matched play we're getting Crusade-only rules for saints.
       
     
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