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If a vehicle moves 6-12", can an assault weapon (meltagun, flamer, heavy flamer) shoot out of the top hatch of a Rhino or other transport with a fire point?

I dont see it explicitly stated in the rules.

Thanks for replying.

If it moves 0-6" yes. If it moves 7-12" then no.

Pg. 66 under Fire Points last paragraph.

Ok, thx for the quick reply....

Unless it's a fast vehicle, then it actually can fire.

The case in point (probably a rhino) can't, unless it's a blood angels rhino.

juraigamer wrote:Unless it's a fast vehicle, then it actually can fire.

The case in point (probably a rhino) can't, unless it's a blood angels rhino.

If it's a vehicle weapon, sure. Nothing about being fast gives the passengers permission to fire out moving at cruising speed. Combat speed (0-6") only for passengers firing.

^ What he said.

Fast vehicles follow the SAME limitations for embarked PASSENGERS firing as normal vehicles do.

However open-topped vehicles do not use fire points, so your trukk full of burna boyz is welcome to roast 'n toast the enemy.

*WARNING* *WARNING* *WARNING*

Flames headed my way as well...


*edit* Devil's Advocating Above. Regardless of fire points occupants of vehicles are restricted by a vehicle's speed on whether they may or may not fire! *end edit*

tetrisphreak wrote:However open-topped vehicles do not use fire points, so your trukk full of burna boyz is welcome to roast 'n toast the enemy.

*WARNING* *WARNING* *WARNING*

Flames headed my way as well...

The restrictions still apply to open-topped vehicles. "Open-topped vehicles do not have specific fire points, instead all passengers may fire..."
P70

and "Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire if the vehicle moved at cruising speed that turn"
P66

key line would be do not have specific fire points ... still fire points just in no set locatoin ie; anywhere on it

According to tetris a fast open topped skimmer transport can move 24" and have its occupants fire still.

According to the rules they are still limited to 6"

Oh i know the actual rules, i've read forums and threads dedicated to them many times over. I was playing devil's advocate for a moment. Although I will admit that for the LONGEST time i believed the above to be true in the sense that fast open topped vehicles could shoot with occupants if they moved 12" or less. Go figure, but the entire group of people who play at my store play it that way so i've kinda just gotten used to it.

I don't have transports of any sort, unless you count mycetic spores, so it never really comes up from my side of the table.

RAW combat speed is 0-6". Occupants may only fire if the vehicle moved at combat speed.

*edit* or remained stationary. *end edit*

sounds as bad as the other store I used to play at, the TO wouldnt count dedicated transports as kill points ... and didnt know diddly on the rules. Where at in WV?

Beckley, Princeton, and Charleston WV. Lost Legion Games & Comics...I am friends with everybody there so the transport thing isn't really a sore subject. We had a tournament a couple of weeks ago where some of the princeton players came to beckley and they were at odds about whether the D. Eldar transports allowed occupants to fire at cruising speed. The room was actually a split decision.

I was actually using your earlier assertions(From the thread you learned about this) to further exemplify why/how the mistake can be abused.

In the earlier thread you were asserting that open topped Fast vehicles(or open topped vehicles of any sort) could have it's passengers fire if it moved 12", but you were also arbitrarily limiting yourself; I was taking it to the next logical conclusion:
If Open-topped=no need to follow the speed restrictions, and no specific restrictions are given, Then there would exist no restrictions at all.

Sorry that you specifically had to be used as the example, but generally playing devil's advocate(especially when you have already been told this was wrong and why) makes you a target of such logical extensions(and possibly labels you as a troll).

Yes it's confusing at first due to what kel stated about the speed bump ups, however anyone moving over combat speed will unfortunately have to get out of the vehicle if able to fire

I've been accused of being a troll before, at times i would say justifiably so. Apologies from my end as well. No hard feelings here for sure, I know how seriuz we wargamers are about our METAL BAWKSES!

Just to Clear this up; I wasn't actually accusing you of being a troll, just stating that such "Devils advocate" games can label you as one.

Good show, guys. Thanks for keeping it civil and gentlemanly.

I thought you could fire with a passenger if a vehicles weapon could fire... or maybe I'm confusion gun drone rules...

Edit: Yup seems that way, never saw the clause that states nothing can fire if you move faster than combat speed

Yeah gundrones may fire at any speed when still attached.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Yeah gundrones may fire at any speed when still attached.

no, they can only fire if something else can. So don't take the sensor spines (?) even they can only shoot if moving 6" or less

I love threads in which someone responds to a question and the next response is someone else disputing. Get me some popcorn!

Tri wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Yeah gundrones may fire at any speed when still attached.

no, they can only fire if something else can. So don't take the sensor spines (?) even they can only shoot if moving 6" or less

Unless you have a multi-tracker.

And Sensor Spines do not restrict any firing, so I am confused why you brought that up at all.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

And Sensor Spines do not restrict any firing, so I am confused why you brought that up at all.

He meant the multi-tracker, since the spines involve movement rules and that he probably forgot that.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Tri wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Yeah gundrones may fire at any speed when still attached.

no, they can only fire if something else can. So don't take the sensor spines (?) even they can only shoot if moving 6" or less

Unless you have a multi-tracker.

Knew i'd pick the wrong one ... rarely read the codex these days and can never remember the "fire like a fast vehicel" upgrade

I don't blame you for ignoring that dex.

With the multi Tracker though, you can in fact fire the gun Drones along with 1 other main and any defensive while moving 12" This is because the Vehicle Gun drone fire as part of the vehicle(not as passengers) and can fire in addition to any other weapons normally permitted.

P.S. I should have noted in my first post that they can fire while moving 12" if you have a multi-tracker.

I think you guys are wrong. I say this because on page "66" Under "Fire Point " It says the following... Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves and my not fire at all if the vehicle moved at cruising speed that turn.
It stated this under Fire Points in Bold Letters. This would not mean under Open Topped Vehicle. This is also under the Heading "Transport Vehicles". Then under the Heading Open-Topped Vehicles on page "70" under "Open Topped Transport Vehicles" it states Open-Topped vehicles Do Not Have Specific Fire Points instead, All Passengers in an open-topped vehicle may fire.

They are 2 different things. Since the type of vehicle is a open topped transport vehicle it falls under the rule on page 70. ?

jordan23ryan wrote:They are 2 different things. Since the type of vehicle is a open topped transport vehicle it falls under the rule on page 70. ?

No, the entries for vehicle types only state what is different from standard. If there's nothing about when/if you may fire then you use the normal rules.

If not the passengers on an OT vehicle have no limitations whatsoever - feel free to load up a Battlewagon with Lootaz (and a Big Mek w. SAG), drive 13" (RPJ) and kill stuff. Because hey, the part about counting as moving if the vehicle moves is also under Fire Points... Oh, and Dark Eldar can now shoot after moving 24. Have fun.

jordan23ryan wrote:Then under the Heading Open-Topped Vehicles on page "70" under "Open Topped Transport Vehicles" it states Open-Topped vehicles Do Not Have Specific Fire Points instead, All Passengers in an open-topped vehicle may fire.

Which means only that open-topped vehicles have no specific fire points. It doesn't mean that the other rules governing firing from the vehicle don't apply. It simply means that passengers in an open-topped vehicle don't need a specific fire point... effectively, the whole vehicle is their fire point.

They're still bound by the rest of the fire point rules. The only thing specifically being over-ridden by the Open-Topped rules is the bit that deals with where they actually fire from.