| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2010/12/03 02:02:53
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Wicked Canoptek Wraith
|
Simple question, can sanguinary novitiates take any upgrades that are for honor guard? My instinct says no, but my heart wants to say yes.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/03 02:03:22
In regards to landraiders:
Joey wrote:
... that unit of badass assault troops which could all be wiped out by a single ordinance template is instead nuts deep in the enemy bowels and is pumping firey vengeance into their enemy's gunline.
|
|
|
 |
|
2010/12/03 02:14:30
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Araqiel
Yellow Submarine
|
No he is listed as a Novitiate under the entry, only Honor Guard can take the options. Note that you buy jump packs for the unit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 02:15:21
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Wicked Canoptek Wraith
|
Yeah, I figured. That's really too bad.
|
In regards to landraiders:
Joey wrote:
... that unit of badass assault troops which could all be wiped out by a single ordinance template is instead nuts deep in the enemy bowels and is pumping firey vengeance into their enemy's gunline.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 03:03:51
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
Its debatable, Since the noviate is an honor guard and a sanguinary novitiate.
I.E. when you buy a unit of 'Honor Guard' it includes him so he is one fifth of the honor guard.
another ambiguous rule for the boys at GW!
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/03 03:04:06
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 05:45:23
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
really? i believe it says 4 xxx 1 novitiate so no upgrades
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 05:45:41
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
|
DeathReaper wrote:Its debatable, Since the noviate is an honor guard and a sanguinary novitiate.
I.E. when you buy a unit of 'Honor Guard' it includes him so he is one fifth of the honor guard.
another ambiguous rule for the boys at GW!
Wrong.
When you buy an Honour Guard the unit composition is:
4 Honour Guards
1 Sanguinary Novitiate
Page 84 zero ambiguity.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 06:20:52
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
The New Miss Macross!
|
agreed. there isn't any wiggle room there as you refer to the model name and not the unit name for individual model upgrades.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 13:57:57
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Wicked Canoptek Wraith
|
Thanks, all. It makes me sad that I have to take 4x weapon upgrades and can't take 5x of the same upgrade...
|
In regards to landraiders:
Joey wrote:
... that unit of badass assault troops which could all be wiped out by a single ordinance template is instead nuts deep in the enemy bowels and is pumping firey vengeance into their enemy's gunline.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 14:23:06
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Stormin' Stompa
|
Terminator Sergeants throughout the galaxy share your frustration.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 23:03:34
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:really? i believe it says 4 xxx 1 novitiate so no upgrades
and they are all listed as Honor guard.
Its like you have 4 rectangles and one square. The square is a rectangle as well.
In this case all 5 of the models are honor guard, since they are listed in the honor guard section. and one of them is a Sanguinary noviate as well.
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/03 23:34:00
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Araqiel
Yellow Submarine
|
You can argue this until you're blue in the face but most people aren't going to agree.
So what are people's opinion on the Blood Champion taking options for Honor Guard? The pro argument is he can first take options as an Honor Guard and is then upgraded to the Blood Champion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 00:43:44
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
Two ways of reading it:
1. You would loose whatever you buy him as the champion's wargear is specified as power weapon and combat shield. However, that also means that he doesn't have grenades any more.
2. You upgrade him, keeping his gear and adding a power weapon and combat shield.
It's pretty vague.
For comparison, the Nob Painboy upgrade specifies "Painboy replaces xxx with yyy".
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/04 00:46:25
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 01:20:43
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
Brother Ramses wrote:DeathReaper wrote:Its debatable, Since the noviate is an honor guard and a sanguinary novitiate.
I.E. when you buy a unit of 'Honor Guard' it includes him so he is one fifth of the honor guard.
another ambiguous rule for the boys at GW!
Wrong. When you buy an Honour Guard the unit composition is: 4 Honour Guards 1 Sanguinary Novitiate Page 84 zero ambiguity.
Read Below. Scott-S6 wrote:Two ways of reading it:
1. You would loose whatever you buy him as the champion's wargear is specified as power weapon and combat shield. However, that also means that he doesn't have grenades any more.
2. You upgrade him, keeping his gear and adding a power weapon and combat shield.
It's pretty vague.
For comparison, the Nob Painboy upgrade specifies "Painboy replaces xxx with yyy".
QFT It is pretty vague another ambiguous rule for the boys at GW!
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/04 01:24:08
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 01:54:10
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
No, the novitiate is not vague - the unit consists of honour guard and novitiate. Honour guard get upgrades.
ETA, - I was clearly posting in regards to the champion question which is not related to the novitiate question at all. Trying to make some connection between the two is spurious at best.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/04 01:58:15
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:00:44
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
Scott's on the money I honestly don't see how you could see this otherwise. It's the same thing with IG and a company command squad 1commander4veterans vets get upgrades ...
if the novitiate could get upgrades they'd be listed for it ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:07:56
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
Because 'you can take one unit of Honor Guard for every HQunit...'
They are all Honor Guard, One is a Noviate as well.
how can you not see it like this?
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:11:26
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant
|
Not vague at all---no upgrades for the novitiate.
It is just being greedy to want more from an already awesome unit.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:20:29
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
because the frickin unit is listed 4 and 1 ... READ IT ...
Literacy is tech
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:20:29
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Araqiel
Yellow Submarine
|
He is basically a junior Sanguinary Priest that comes with the squad. Seeing he is a dirt cheap priest and all that brings it's not really a big deal he can take any options other than a jump pack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:27:44
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
DeathReaper wrote:Because 'you can take one unit of Honor Guard for every HQunit...'
They are all Honor Guard, One is a Noviate as well.
how can you not see it like this?
Because the types under unit composition is what is being referred to by the upgrade section, not the unit title. If it meant "anyone in the squad" it would say "any model". Same as every other unit. There is no example where an upgrade that can be taken by anyone in the unit is referred to by the unit's name, it always instead says "any model". Why do you think that some upgrades are available to "any Honour Guard" while others are available to "any model"? By your logic the champion and the novitiate are still honour guard so "any Honour Guard" and "any model" are exactly the same thing. Can you explain why the meltabomb upgrade is different?
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/04 02:28:34
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:34:27
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Araqiel
Yellow Submarine
|
A good example is a sergeant in a tactical squad - he has his own set of options only he can take and its also obvious he can't take a meltagun or lascannon either. To me it's the same thing we are discussing here. The Blood Champion was simply cited as an example to show he doesn't work the same when selecting options as the Novitiate.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/04 02:35:07
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 02:44:45
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
The meltabomb upgrade is the clincher. If "any Honour Guard" meant any model in the Honour Guard unit as DR is claiming then having the meltabombs as "any model" makes no sense - why differentiate?
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 05:37:32
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
Scott-S6 wrote:
Because the types under unit composition is what is being referred to by the upgrade section, not the unit title. If it meant "anyone in the squad" it would say "any model". Same as every other unit. There is no example where an upgrade that can be taken by anyone in the unit is referred to by the unit's name, it always instead says "any model".
Why do you think that some upgrades are available to "any Honour Guard" while others are available to "any model"? By your logic the champion and the novitiate are still honour guard so "any Honour Guard" and "any model" are exactly the same thing. Can you explain why the meltabomb upgrade is different?
Meltabombs say Any honor guard can... Meltaguns say Any Honor Guard can... How is the meltabomb entry different? why differentiate? Because GW does that with many rules that mean the same thing. Reference P. 3 'Squads, teams, sections or similar' all mean the same thing, why differentiate?
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/04 05:41:30
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 06:28:13
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
Alaska
|
So it's cool that I upgrade my Sanguinary Novitiate to a Blood Champion?
|
Current Army: Too many freaking Jump Packs 1500
Gwar! wrote:The newb has it right.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/04 07:32:12
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
The New Miss Macross!
|
DeathReaper wrote:Reference P. 3 'Squads, teams, sections or similar' all mean the same thing, why differentiate?
you've got the reasons listed above. if you're going to try to use this, expect that a significant portion of the people (probably the vast majority) are going to disagree with you as that is simply how 40k does things and it's been that way for a few editions.
|
|
|
|
|
2010/12/05 01:33:14
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Emboldened Warlock
|
Eternal Newb wrote:So it's cool that I upgrade my Sanguinary Novitiate to a Blood Champion?
And according to deathreaper, you can also give him 2 meltaguns.
Honour guard the unit consists of 4 honour guard models and 1 SN model (source: C: BA)
Honour guard models may take upgrades. Nowhere does it say the SN may take upgrades. The champion upgrade is the only vague one.
|
DC:80S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k99+D++A+++/mWD219R++T(T)DM+ |
|
|
|
|
2010/12/05 20:07:17
Subject: Sanguinary Novitiate Upgradeable?
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
DeathReaper wrote:Meltabombs say Any honor guard can...
Meltaguns say Any Honor Guard can...
My bad, that's what I get for flicking back and forth between BA honour guard and SM honour guard. The confusion with this unit is that we have Unit Name : Honour Guard Unit Type : Honour Guard, Sanguiniary Novitiate Your position is that the upgrades refer to the unit name. In all other units they refer to the unit type. See the Sternguard squad for an example - would you allow the sergeant to take a heavy weapon? (since he's also a veteran)
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/05 20:07:30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
