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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




I was reading a topic in another forum, and I didn't think you can do this. I would like to see what you guys think about it. Can a Tyranofex or a squad of Space Marines, or a Speeder attack a unit say 24 inches away, and then use it's flamer template and of course the flamer template is out of range, but could you aim the flamer template at the unit you shot at, and hit enemy models that would be within range then?

One person said he played a person who had a speeder shot at the Zoanthropes, but used his flamer template to hit the hormagaunts and hit 8 of them because they were lined up with the Zoanthropes. Another perosn wants to use the Tyranofex, hit a tank far way but if troops are close to him, use his flamer template to hit the troops since lining up the flamer template lined up with the tank.

So can this be done or not? I would think no, because you can only shoot at one target that you are aiming at. If the weapon is out of range it's an automatic miss. Since the flamer template is out of range would that mean it's an automatic miss and can't be use even though other units are lined up and within range? I never herd of this before until now. So is this how you get away from shooting one target and using the flamer to hit another unit?

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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




You would be correct. If the flamer template is out of range then it's an automatic miss.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Leo_the_Rat wrote:You would be correct. If the flamer template is out of range then it's an automatic miss.
So would that be an automatic miss for other units as well? Would you even be able to fire it since you are out of range? So if someone tried that on me, could I say, since you are out of range, it's an automatic miss, you can't even use it then?
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






The template has to be able to hit the target unit.

If it can't then no flamer shot.
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge





Long Island, New York, USA

Davor wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:You would be correct. If the flamer template is out of range then it's an automatic miss.
So would that be an automatic miss for other units as well? Would you even be able to fire it since you are out of range? So if someone tried that on me, could I say, since you are out of range, it's an automatic miss, you can't even use it then?


If the flamer template is out of range it's an automatic miss.

Say you were firing at a unit 20" away and there was another unit 3" away. The long range weapon will roll to hit (if applicable) but the template being less than 20" long is out of range of the target unit so it's an automatic miss. It cannot hit the second unit (the close unit) because the target unit is out of range of the template weapon.

Now say you are firing at a unit 8" away and there is another unit 3" away. The long range weapon hits the unit 8" away, and so does the flamer template because the target unit is in range. You position it as normal to cover as many models in the target unit as possible. But in this case, any models in the closer unit (the one 3" away) that are under the template are hit as well.

The key is which unit is the target unit. Range is always checked to the unit that you are declaring the shooting attack to be against. That's the target unit.
   
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

wizards on the dime, i'm seeing a trend with this question.

it fails as its out of range. even tho its a flamer

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Chicago

I just wanted to clarify: Any weapon (flamer included) that you declare to be firing always does, in fact, fire. If it's out of range, you automatically miss (and flamers can't cause collateral damage to other squads). But, it does fire. So, you would have to test for things like Gets Hot! and use up a single shot weapon, etc.

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Inside a pretty, pretty pain cave... won't you come inside?

It's an auto miss, as described. I have used this (and seen it done by others) when the "target" (because that's what I want to assault) is immune to the flamer, such as a Rhino, but the guys hiding behind it, who will still get hit by the flamer, are not. So, you fire the flamer at the Rhino hit it and the other unit, then still get to assault the Rhino.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/13 17:35:38


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

Skarboy wrote:It's an auto miss, as described. I have used this (and seen it done by others) when the "target" (because that's what I want to assault) is immune to the flamer, such as a Rhino, but the guys hiding behind it, who will still get hit by the flamer, are not. So, you fire the flamer at the Rhino hit it and the other unit, then still get to assault the Rhino.


This is a can of worms, be extremely cautious as you are compelled to cover as much of the Rhino as possible, which usually means you will not be able to hit many models at all.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Darkest Kent (England)

I consider the can to be open, and scince the template has to cover as much of the rhino as it can, will it go horizontal?

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Currently working on my Riot Guard.

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Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






It's all dependdant on the angles. Yes, you must cover as much of the thino as possible, which may mean you must angle it diagonally, straight forward, 2 degrees to the left, whatever.
But with clever positioning... anything is possible (almost)

Any fast unit should be able to get into that golden spot where you cover as much as the target as possible, while still hitting something else.

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Made in us
Sinewy Scourge





Long Island, New York, USA

When firing the flamer template over a Rhino or other tank, I just place it level over the top of the tank and 'eyeball' the point of the template being against the base of the firing model.

Look at the middle photo on page 85 BRB to see what I mean.

And yes you can sometimes cover quite a few enemy models on the other side of the tank doing this!

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Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol





University of St. Andrews

I had a similar question a while back involving possible shenanigans with the Banewolf and its multimelta. Here's the diagram Gwar! drew for me. For context, the Banewolf has declared a shooting attack at the Xenos tank, and is firing both its mulitmelta and chem cannon at it. The multimelta to do actual pain, the chem cannon to kill some infnatry in between.



Gwar! wrote:So basically:

MOST HOLY™ BANEWOLF©™ ---3"---Toasty Xenos----9"-----Xenos Tank

results in the flamer missing, but:

MOST HOLY™ BANEWOLF©™ ---3"---Toasty Xenos----2"-----Xenos Tank

results in toasted Xenos scum, even if the template weapon could not possibly harm the foul Xenos Tank.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/14 01:50:34


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San Diego, California

Ok, quick question. Say I drive up my Banewolf to a Drop pod that has marines right by it. I shoot at the Drop Pod, am in range for both the Multimelta and Chem Cannon. The Chem Cannon happens to go over the marine squad. Since the Chem Cannon hits the Drop Pod, it should hit the Marines too.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/14 06:41:09


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Made in us
Sinewy Scourge





Long Island, New York, USA

Gavo wrote:Ok, quick question. Say I drive up my Banewolf to a Drop pod that has marines inside.
The drop pod couldn't have marines inside, since the drop pod rules state that when the pod lands, the hatches are blown and the passengers must immediately disembark.

But you certainly could target the pod and catch a marine unit under the flamer template as well if they were positioned correctly.

I have found again and again that in encounter actions, the day goes to the side that is the first to plaster its opponent with fire. The man who lies low and awaits developments usually comes off second best. - Erwin Rommel
"For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise." - Benjamin Franklin
 
   
Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol





University of St. Andrews

Gavo wrote:Ok, quick question. Say I drive up my Banewolf to a Drop pod that has marines inside. I shoot at the Drop Pod, am in range for both the Multimelta and Chem Cannon. The Chem Cannon happens to go over the marine squad. Since the Chem Cannon hits the Drop Pod, it should hit the Marines too.

EDIT: Ninja'd.



If you declare shooting at the drop pod, the BRB says you have to cover as much of the drop pod with your template as possible. But any Marines still caught under the template will suffer the standard hit from the weapon. In the Banewolf's case? 2+ Poisoned AP3.

"If everything on Earth were rational, nothing would ever happen."
~Fyodor Dostoevsky

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





San Diego, California

time wizard wrote:
Gavo wrote:Ok, quick question. Say I drive up my Banewolf to a Drop pod that has marines inside.
The drop pod couldn't have marines inside, since the drop pod rules state that when the pod lands, the hatches are blown and the passengers must immediately disembark.

But you certainly could target the pod and catch a marine unit under the flamer template as well if they were positioned correctly.


Ugh, that's what I meant. Fixed now.

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Chicago, IL

Gavo wrote:Ok, quick question. Say I drive up my Banewolf to a Drop pod that has marines right by it. I shoot at the Drop Pod, am in range for both the Multimelta and Chem Cannon. The Chem Cannon happens to go over the marine squad. Since the Chem Cannon hits the Drop Pod, it should hit the Marines too.

EDIT: Ninja'd.


You should just target the marines if you are that close.

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University of St. Andrews

Not necesssarily. If you target the DropPod you have a chance of using your multimelta to blow it up, while still covering the marines with the chem template. You get to hit 2 targets in stead of just one.

"If everything on Earth were rational, nothing would ever happen."
~Fyodor Dostoevsky

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
~Hanlon's Razor

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Battlefleet Tomania (2500 pts)

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Stephens City, VA

DeathReaper wrote:
Gavo wrote:Ok, quick question. Say I drive up my Banewolf to a Drop pod that has marines right by it. I shoot at the Drop Pod, am in range for both the Multimelta and Chem Cannon. The Chem Cannon happens to go over the marine squad. Since the Chem Cannon hits the Drop Pod, it should hit the Marines too.

EDIT: Ninja'd.


You should just target the marines if you are that close.


Why should he target the marines?

He can possibly get 2 birds with 1 stone here, it's a good play


   
 
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