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Eldrad uses fortune and get perils fails the ghosthelm ignore, fails he's inv. And does he get to use the fortune reroll ?

if he gets a perils because he rolled snake eyes, then yes, because the power succeeds (i assume this is what you mean) - otherwise, no.

Well essentially you roll the dice, then immediately re-roll it again not matter the result. Since you're supposed to re-roll fails with Fortune and successes due to Perils.

They just cancel out though so you just roll once and get no re-roll.

slave's got it

IIRC, since fortune has not taken effect when you rolled the dice to cast it is not in play, therefor making it not an option for you to use when declaring re-rolls. I think there was a question like this regarding Shield of Sanguinius.

That's a good question - is there any FAQ or precedence regarding the sequence of events when a wound is inflicted by a double-1?
The two possibilities are that:
A) The power and the wound are resolved simultaneously (or respectively) and Fortune is in effect.
B)The wound is resolved before the power takes effect and may not be re-rolled if unsuccessful.

If you are already Fortune'd for a double-1 Perils, you must re-roll save whatever the result, and the result of the second save stands. Slave is essentially right in this case - you can effectively skip the first roll without affecting the probability, although that's technically breaking the rules.
The alternative is to not take your saving throw and suffer the wound, since you don't trigger Fortune unless you 'make' a failed save (I assume that the dice must actually be rolled to count as a failed save for the purposes of Fortune). That seems kind of pointless.

If you perils on a 1-1, then by the time you come to roll ghosthelm, fortune has already gone off, so can be used. then you get the ghosthelm roll, then roll the rune armour save, then rereoll it once, no matter the result.

Thats the final result.

It's up in the air either way, Personally I'd play it perils, fortune is up at the time I perils'd helm, roll and reroll it for the final result

Since you reroll either way, I'd ask the other player to agree that you're just going to roll once, since the first roll has no bearing on anything.

With Snake-eyes perils, the power succeeds - so it has gone off and you ARE protected by it.

So, you do get the re-rolled failed save part - however the interaction with perils results pretty much mean the die roll is ignored and rerolled anyway (you do not get to re-roll it again afterwards).

I think you mean goes off. Not has gone off. Seeings how it cannot be in effect until the roll for the pyschic test happens. When you roll for the pyschic test is fortune available to the caster at that time? I would say no, why you might ask, because he is casting it. I am not saying that the effects are canceled, I am saying the are not applicable at that time. Perils happens when you are casting not after you are casting. So the save from his ghosthelm is in effect at the same time he would take a wound from perils. Which is before he has finished casting fortune.

You cast as soon as you roll the dice.

After you roll the dice you then roll the perils test. But the actual psychic test has finished - so the power must be in effect?

I would say it's in effect, but I guess that's just being an optimist to keep it simple

I would say that the casting is not done till all parts of casting have been handled with.

What I mean by that is that in order for a spell to go off, you must 1. pass a psychic test 2. If you roll double 1's or 6's perils kicks in take a wound 3. if you have an invul save roll to see if you save/ignore the wound 4. if save is successful re-roll as part of taking perils 5. continue turn as normal.

Except that isnt part of the psychic test - you are told that a "test" is rolling dice and comparing to the stat. So the "test" is over as soon as you have rolled the dice and found the result.

At that point you may trigger an additional effect, but that is AFTER the test has occured.

When you look at the paragraph on page 50 of the brb detailing perils of the warp. You will read, "If the result of a psychic test is either double 1 or 6 this indicates that something horrible has happened to the psyker."

At that point you have already had it happen, it is a rule sub-set for taking psychic tests. Or in other words a special rule that is called upon in certain circumstances. In this case when the result of the dice being rolled for a psychic test is double 1 or 6.

This directly effects the timing of the spell cast. Seeings how you cannot gain the benifit of a spell till after the result of everything that has happened when you take a psychic test is over. Fortune allows all saves to be re-rolled after the spell is cast, IIRC. So is the psychic test over when you have a rule (Perils) taking effect? Is the psychic test over before you determine if the test passes? (seeings how the dice have already been rolled)

The "test" is rolling two dice and determining the result vs the stat called for (see taking tests in the rulebook)

So while a double 1 or double 6 indicates "a bad thing", that does not mean that you havent finished casting.

Thankfully fantasy cleared this up by explicitly stating that miscasts are after spell effect goes off.

Yes that is good for fantasy, not 40k.....

I understand taking tests from the rulebook. I guess this comes down to how you read and interpret the timing of everything.

Addtionaly, this is a psychic test that has addtional rules and conditions, which directly effect the test and the results of said test. Also, once you have finished rolling the test you need to determine the results, which Perils is directly linked to. So at that point in my understanding perils has already happened if you roll double 1 or 6. (as the wording in the paragraph I have already shown)

Since this is a timing issue, not related to eldrad/fortune exactly, I have the following question...

Take a lash sorc with 1 wound left. He attempts to cast lash. He rolls double 1's, and with no invuln save he dies. Does the power resolve before or after he dies, and/or if he dies does the power get cancelled?

DevianID wrote:Since this is a timing issue, not related to eldrad/fortune exactly, I have the following question...

Take a lash sorc with 1 wound left. He attempts to cast lash. He rolls double 1's, and with no invuln save he dies. Does the power resolve before or after he dies, and/or if he dies does the power get cancelled?

Page 50 of the BRB is *explicit* in defining this exact situation. See the last sentence in the paragraph under "Perils of the Warp".

Homer