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Hello, people. Today i want to present the scene, that somebody may find rather shocking and even revolting. It depicts IG soldiers, that going to rape eldar female. And i want to make it clear - i`m not a psycho, pervert or something, and i personaly don`t think that rape is a good thing to be done. As, say, Quentin Tarantino doesn`t think that slice people with katana, killing pregnant woman or burning people alive are a good deeds. But he`s telling a story. And so do i. And, really, if one toy soldier can decapitate, slice to pieces, eviscerate, burn with flamer, rip guts etc brutally kill other toy soldier, and you like this game anyway, don`t blame me for making this diorama!

WARNING! SHOCKING CONTENT! 18+ Absolutely NO minors and hypocrites!
http://www.coolminiornot.com/266249

I posted this earlier today!

This is such fantastic work. The faces, the atmosphere. Everything about it.

Exellent, minus the rape.

Subject matter notwithstanding, it's an extremely well constructed and painted piece. Well done.

Really awesome paint job, but the scene itself? not for me

Nice paint job but personally I don't believe the composition. I would have thought that either the guys would be surrounding her, blocking off any exit or she would be backing off away from the group not toward them. Your victim appears to have backed herself into a corner when there is a clear route of escape. But then I have never witnessed a rape so how am I supposed to know how people reacted.

Personally I don't find the scene overly shocking, I have seen movies with far more graphic scenes.

Bangbangboom wrote:

Personally I don't find the scene overly shocking, I have seen movies with far more graphic scenes.

The composition is done so to make a good photos afterwads, so it has some flaws. I posted the warning, because some people saying that diorama is shocking and revolting.

Nice work! Excellent paintjob!

Bangbangboom wrote:Your victim appears to have backed herself into a corner when there is a clear route of escape.

Clear route of escape while there are 5 soldiers around her and one guy is pointing gun at her head? And maybe she can be injured or something so she really couldn't be able to escape or something..

Incredibly well made, incredibly well painted, theme is very edgy but I think it's been rather nicely executed.

Besides, what we are all forgetting here is the average levels of training of the average guardsman and an eldar guardian, lets face it one eldar could probably take on 4 humans and win...

And this is where things go from Hobby to Art. If a piece provokes this much passion and conflict in the viewer it meets the requirements that I currently associate with real artistic expression.

Rape is a reality in war, the fact that this depicts an alien actually makes it easier for people to accept, how horrifying is that? Imagine replacing the Eldar with an imperial citizen or a female ganger...what would be your reaction?

Well done!

Nakatan wrote:The composition is done so to make a good photos afterwads, so it has some flaws. I posted the warning, because some people saying that diorama is shocking and revolting.

Fair enough, I don't know if you tried it but I believe if the guy unzipping was standing over her so we saw his back he would have looked more dominating and she would have looked more fearful. But then I suppose you wouldn't be able to see what he was doing and the "story" set in the scene would have been lost. Still the scene is suitable grimdark, war isn't all blood and bullet wounds after all.

I wouldn't worry about people complaining about the content, other mediums have far more graphic images, some just like to complain. The warning probably was necessary though.

Xenon wrote:

Bangbangboom wrote:Your victim appears to have backed herself into a corner when there is a clear route of escape.

Clear route of escape while there are 5 soldiers around her and one guy is pointing gun at her head? And maybe she can be injured or something so she really couldn't be able to escape or something.

I never said a successful route of escape

Animachina wrote:And this is where things go from Hobby to Art. If a piece provokes this much passion and conflict in the viewer it meets the requirements that I currently associate with real artistic expression.

+1, it is a surprisingly visceral portrayal of a disgusting act, which evokes a strong reaction. That's what it is meant to do. The subject matter is meant to be disturbing, and as one can admire the piece as both art in terms of the magnificent painting and modelling job, and then have something to think about and react to emotionally, makes this an official art piece in my book.

I don't understand why people react as if this piece is endorsing the behavior depicted in it. I view it as a criticism. It is clear who the bad guys are, and it is also clear that this scenario has probably played out thousands upon thousands of times in real life. This happens. Don't be so quick to judge and look away, when clearly this piece is supposed to make you angry, and make you think about reality and how you see war and soldiers too.

Very memorable.

You have wonderful spelling and grammar.

Are you talking about the Russian guy, or someone else?

More to the point, why are you talking about spelling/grammar and not the goddamn model he posted?

The Dreadnote wrote:Are you talking about the Russian guy, or someone else?

More to the point, why are you talking about spelling/grammar and not the goddamn model he posted?

Oh snap!

The painting and modeling is fantastic, but I agree that the composition is flawed, and lets the piece down.

My biggest issue is that the missing armor on her torso (while her helmet, gloves, etc. are all intact) seems unrealistic, and purely present to reveal the chest.
Even with the guardsman having removed the chest plate, any soldier wears some kind of undergarment, singlet, or something beneath.

It appears that the artist didn't have enough confidence that the face, the contours of the body, or the scene made it obvious that she's female. Some rips/holes in the armor, and possibly an injury, would be realistic and underscore her vulnerability without the clumsiness of just showing her breasts in this way.

A flaw like this actually sticks out more in a work so impressive.

Wow... that's the edgiest thing I've ever seen a modeller do, especially a Warhammer modeller. And I do a lot of Slaanesh stuff! I'm impressed with the paintjob. The only thing I can possibly criticize here is that Imperial Guardsmen are indoctrinated to utterly despise the alien, and this would probably be more disgusting than bestiality to them. I hope these guys' Commisar doesn't find out.

Mannahnin wrote:The painting and modeling is fantastic, but I agree that the composition is flawed, and lets the piece down.

My biggest issue is that the missing armor on her torso (while her helmet, gloves, etc. are all intact) seems unrealistic, and purely present to reveal the chest.
Even with the guardsman having removed the chest plate, any soldier wears some kind of undergarment, singlet, or something beneath.

It appears that the artist didn't have enough confidence that the face, the contours of the body, or the scene made it obvious that she's female. Some rips/holes in the armor, and possibly an injury, would be realistic and underscore her vulnerability without the clumsiness of just showing her breasts in this way.

A flaw like this actually sticks out more in a work so impressive.

Very good crit Mannahnin! I agree on nearly every point, and would add that the fact that the top of her torso armor on her is ripped and cracked, while the breastplate is mint, struck me as well. As you said though, the overall quality of technique and painting is so good thing like that stick out. I am going to go have a look at his other work now, since I am wondering what else he has done, and would like to enjoy a less controversial piece too lol

That's pretty awesome.

Does he have to roll to wound?
If he fails, does he have to take morale in embarrassment?

Dude that is seriously sick!!!!!

Nice paint job thought

Mannahnin wrote:The painting and modeling is fantastic, but I agree that the composition is flawed, and lets the piece down.

My biggest issue is that the missing armor on her torso (while her helmet, gloves, etc. are all intact) seems unrealistic, and purely present to reveal the chest.
Even with the guardsman having removed the chest plate, any soldier wears some kind of undergarment, singlet, or something beneath.

It appears that the artist didn't have enough confidence that the face, the contours of the body, or the scene made it obvious that she's female. Some rips/holes in the armor, and possibly an injury, would be realistic and underscore her vulnerability without the clumsiness of just showing her breasts in this way.

A flaw like this actually sticks out more in a work so impressive.

This was basically my thought exactly. Just written better.

Mannahnin wrote:The painting and modeling is fantastic, but I agree that the composition is flawed, and lets the piece down.

My biggest issue is that the missing armor on her torso (while her helmet, gloves, etc. are all intact) seems unrealistic, and purely present to reveal the chest.
Even with the guardsman having removed the chest plate, any soldier wears some kind of undergarment, singlet, or something beneath.

It appears that the artist didn't have enough confidence that the face, the contours of the body, or the scene made it obvious that she's female. Some rips/holes in the armor, and possibly an injury, would be realistic and underscore her vulnerability without the clumsiness of just showing her breasts in this way.

A flaw like this actually sticks out more in a work so impressive.

Agreed. And I also felt the way the guardsman was holding the chestplate was odd. It doesn't look to me like he's holding an object that has weight, he looks like he has had a plastic object glued into his hands.

And I also agree that it is because the rest of this model is so good that I noticed that. It's certainly well above anything I can do.

The faces are superb. The guardsman holding the lasgun looks like he actually feels the part. Same with the guy undoing his pants. I'm reading a bit of ambiguity into the face of the guardsman with the boltgun, like maybe he regrets what's going on but doesn't want to take a stand against his squad for an alien. Even if that wasn't what you were intending, the fact that I am reading that much story into it shows how well you've done your job. The tattoos are also fantastic. I don't think I've ever seen tattoos that actually look like dye in the skin, as opposed to paint sitting on the skin. I love the weathering on the wrecked wave serpent. And it's also quite cool how all the colors in the scene are muted except for the Eldar herself. The effect is a bit like a spotlight to draw us back to her and make sure we don't forget about her. There are things that can be improved, but they are small details in a sea of awesome.

I wish we didn't live in a world where you felt the need to defend yourself from being called a psycho, but I understand the feeling. This is art, and I would say this hilights one of my biggest complaints about our hobby. There are thousands of finger-quotes "adult" miniatures of naked big-titted women with big weapons, but they generally pass without comment and feel very juvenile to me. You have tried to make something that actually moves people with complex emotions, and because of that you appear to feel like you need a disclaimer. I thank you for making your diorama. You've raised the bar on what this hobby can be.

Hmmm.

Very original and well made. Great paint job.

I agree with the others about some of the unrealistic elements but whislt they are true, they are inconsquetial.

Now, the content... Part of me applauds you for trying this out, part of me is dissapointed. I'm not shocked in anyway, i've seen far worse. I just don't think that this is in the spirit of the 40k universe. I'm not saying it wouldn't go on... just that 40k wasn't made to support and deal with these issues, therfore it falls down.

I also can't help but feel there is an edge of fantasy about it. Which is a bit messed up.

FTL

Well said, Johira. This actually might be the most interesting thing I've ever seen a miniatures modeller do. Art isn't just about being pretty, it's about conjuring up strong emotions at times, and I think that this can almost unanimously be referred to as art.

JOHIRA wrote:I wish we didn't live in a world where you felt the need to defend yourself from being called a psycho, but I understand the feeling. This is art, and I would say this hilights one of my biggest complaints about our hobby. There are thousands of finger-quotes "adult" miniatures of naked big-titted women with big weapons, but they generally pass without comment and feel very juvenile to me. You have tried to make something that actually moves people with complex emotions, and because of that you appear to feel like you need a disclaimer.

Well, in fairness, the usual audience for 40k stuff involves kids. And this is an effort at mature art, which is not kid-appropriate.

I agree that this is on a higher level than the run-of-the-mill scantily or un-clad fantasy women you see here and there. That stuff is obviously juvenile, but is relatively innocent in its adolescence.

Part of my criticism of this piece, though, is that the artist chose to show the breasts; which means he's got to be extremely careful and realistic in his presentation to avoid blurring the line between art and juvenile fantasy involving elf boobs. And sadly, I think he's failed a bit there.

Thanks tor your criticism and praises, certainly there are some flaws, obivous more or less. And yes, i like elf chicks and, well, elf boobs). But that eldar female here was a first `serious` sculpting experience, not that years-boobs fantasy).
But, mos importantly, heh, i could not even imagine such reaction for this diorama. On one of our russian forums it gathered 16 pages of aggressive hypocritical flood). Thanks to all of you for react the way you do.

It's the faces that does it for me. Each one, from the stern resolute eldar, who seems to be reaching for the knife, to the uncomfortable commander, whose taking a Laissez faire attitude to the entire incident. The character in the facial expressions is so damn good!

I think it is a very good diorama with a powerful narrative, excellent painting and modeling (apart from a slightly strange pose on the officer but I'll put is down to the camera angle)

All other ideas and thoughts of mine on this piece can be found in the other thread of this. I apologize if some of my comments offend or come off as attack to others, they are not intended to hurt but to make a strong point.

I think the subject matter is puerile and really detracts from the awesomeness of the painting and the conversions. It would have been better served had they just found a survivor and their similar reactions to it.

I really like the different camo schemes on the guardsmen.

Frazzled wrote:I think the subject matter is puerile and really detracts from the awesomeness of the painting and the conversions. It would have been better served had they just found a survivor and their similar reactions to it.

I really like the different camo schemes on the guardsmen.

I agree with you entirely. If they had been surrounding the Eldar ready to kill her, it would be far more interesting and acceptable in my mind. The P+M is amazing though, so I hope to see some more appropriate pieces in the future.

I also had a thought. I believe it's the fact that it's a human doing the dodgy act that offends us. Imagine a similar piece but replace the Guardsmen with Dark Eldar. In my mind, it would seem far more acceptable. Maybe because they're not human.

I would also like to add that I think this is also against fluff. I know it happens in real life, but as mentioned above, Xenos disgust humans, and I don't believe any self-respecting Emperor-Worshipper would go that far with an alien.