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Hey hey! Been lurking around for a few months and decided to get an account.

I'm gonna play a 3k battle tomorrow (Lizardmen vs O&G) and for the first time use the sKrox regiment. Now the question i've debated with my neighbour is what happens in this hypothetical scenario:

My skrox unit is 24 skinks with 3 kroxigor. Imagine i've lost 12 when i get into combat with a group of say... 15 sword masters. He will strike first, can only hit skinks BUT lets say he does 15 wounds. What happens with the wounds that remains after the skinks are dead? Are they carried over to the kroxigor even though the rolls should have been different? I mean when he makes the attacks he can't choose to target the kroxigors since they are in the second rank, and you have to make all attacks at the same time.

Sorry if this has been asked before .

Excess wounds cannot carry over onto the Kroxigor,. They are simply lost.

Like dwarf slayer units, except krox arent champions.

Thank you very much!

Note you may run into arguments about this from TFGs.

Where is this in the rulebook? Does this function similarly for Pack Masters who run with Giant Rats / Rat Ogres?

It's not in the rulebook. There is nothing in it about units that include different models that aren't champions or characters, we only have FAQs and army books to go on.

Er... guess I should rephrase then: where are the associated rules / FAQs? I'm just trying to compare it to Packmasters is all.

Well the rules in the Dwarf, Lizardmen and Skaven armybooks, along with the related FAQs should contain most of the questions about mixed units you may need answered.
Sadly not to all of them.

Idura wrote:Hey hey! Been lurking around for a few months and decided to get an account.

I'm gonna play a 3k battle tomorrow (Lizardmen vs O&G) and for the first time use the sKrox regiment. Now the question i've debated with my neighbour is what happens in this hypothetical scenario:

My skrox unit is 24 skinks with 3 kroxigor. Imagine i've lost 12 when i get into combat with a group of say... 15 sword masters. He will strike first, can only hit skinks BUT lets say he does 15 wounds. What happens with the wounds that remains after the skinks are dead? Are they carried over to the kroxigor even though the rolls should have been different? I mean when he makes the attacks he can't choose to target the kroxigors since they are in the second rank, and you have to make all attacks at the same time.

Sorry if this has been asked before .

Unless he charged the rear of the skink unit, he can hit the krox.
After killing the 12 skinks, I'd say the extra wounds are lost... not that it matters, you just took out their standard, musician and ranks, it's impossible for you to lose the fight.

Anyhow, don't shoot the mixed unit. You want those skinks around for the easy combat res. You'll have more important things to shoot. (slaan)

-Matt

Allow me to play devil's advocate then. There is nothing in the "Spawn-Kin" rule that suggests the Kroxigor are a separate unit. As we've covered on YMDC several times, a unit is:

...1 or more models that are arranged in orthoganol base contact with each other... (little rule book pg. 5)

There's also a line I'd think key in this situation:

Once formed into a unit, the models move and fight as a single entity for the rest of the battle. (little rule book pg. 5)

So while the Krox are MI, and the Skinks are Infantry, they form a single (albeit mixed type) unit. The "Unit" definition doesn't care what actual Troop/Unit type the models in the unit are, just that they are together.

The FAQ also tells us how to deal with units with mixed toughness and armor save:

Main Rulebook FAQ:
Q: When a unit has multiple toughness values or armour saves do
you use the value of the majority or in the case of a tie, the best (p42,
43)?
A: Yes, unless specified otherwise.

AFAIK, there is no specification in the "Spawn-Kin" rule that states otherwise.


...

I had more to this, but frankly after a large lunch I've sorta lost my train of thought

So, I just want to see what the two positions here are-

1.) You can only hit Skinks as they're the only ones you're in BtB with. Therefore, no matter how many wounds the unit receives, only Skinks can be removed. FURTHER, this means that the SKrox unit can never be wiped out in a single initiative tick, as you can only ever kill either Skinks or Kroxigors with a single set of attacks.

OR

2.) You deal wounds to the unit, using majority WS/T/armor save(typically that of the Skinks). Any wounds done are inflicted against the unit as a whole, and so the Kroxigors could be wounded.

There could be some third position on it that you can target against either the Skinks or the Kroxigors, but I don't think that's got much of a leg to stand on.

Am I correct in summing up the positions here?

Does the rules for the mixed unit allow you to target the Kroxigor?

Ah, I see that the FAQ says ignore "great reach".
I thought the FAQ addressed the Krox making a stomp attack, but that's not in their either.

Also not covered is what to do about skink command models.

If wounds pass freely between skink and krox, Krox start taking wounds (and saves) before musician and standard; since those are always the last removed. Or, does a krox pick up the standard/musician?


Looks like 8th made a mess of this.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Looks like 8th made a mess of this.

It did, and so many FAQs later either side of the argument still has nothing to go on.
It's the main reason i just don't run skrox units.