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Daemon Prince, Lvl 1, MoT, Third Eye, Bloodcurdling Roar, Fury of the Blood God - 420
Throgg - 175
17 Trolls - 765
6 Ogres, Mus, Std, GWs - 300
6 Ogres, Mus, Std, GWs - 300
Hellcannon - 205
Shaggoth, AHW - 275
5 Hounds - 30
5 Hounds - 30
Total = 2500

This is me trying to make my list as hard as possible, since I'm considering registering for the Nova Open GT. My giant has yet to do anything for me, so I put in a hellcannon and used the extra 20 points to buy the DP another gift. I couldn't afford chaos armor on the ogres, I thought it'd be better to have the hounds.

Thoughts from a competitive standpoint? Obviously, the DP and/or hellcannon are going to have to try to take out any lore of death caster before it gets within casting range of the trollstar, if possible (probably not, but I can hope!). The ogres are there for banners, and I've found they need GWs to do anything.

I do have a lot of dragon ogres that I couldn't fit into the list; I was considering trying to find 6 points to include them instead of the Giant, as well.

I'm trying to up the level of my tournament list so as to have some closer games at an event like this... I ran into a lot of deathstars in my last tourney and figured I'd try one of my own! I've been wanting to try out running the trolls as a single unit, but hadn't thought I could fit it in before 3K, so this is my shot at it.

Comments welcome!


Edit: Another option I've considered is dropping the shaggoth for 3 Dragon Ogres with GWs, dropping the extra gift from the DP, and getting the ogres Chaos Armor. The shaggoth has been a fire magnet and has died fairly quickly; however, I think I need something to draw fire away from the DP. I also think the the ogres will be one of the last priorities to shoot in a list like this, so they might not need the armor...

Actually - I would list the Ogre units as target #2, right after the Prince. Chaos armor would go a long ways to protect them from small arms fire.

OK - maybe they'd be #3 after the Shaggoth. But what else would an opponent shoot at? Shooting the Trolls is just dumb, they will regenerate & start adding bonuses.

RanTheCid wrote:Shooting the Trolls is just dumb, they will regenerate & start adding bonuses.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh *deletes list*

You're right, of course, but for some reason my ogres haven't seen a lot of fire so far- at least, in games when my whole army hasn't been shot to bits. Any ideas on how to get chaos armor in there, if you think it'd be needed? I posted above a possibility (dropping shaggoth for 3 dragon ogres with GWs, and dropping a gift) but since the shaggoth does seem to be target #2 for people, I think it's more better than the drogres and getting chaos armor (even though they've done a hair more for me, I think the shaggoth has a bit of a psychological effect). It would also make the DP more vulnerable to spells.

My ogres are actually modelled with "neutral" weapons, so I can pull off AHW, or nothing, as well as GWs. At lower point levels, when I've been running only a single unit, I've had them at 8-strong and really liked it. However, I don't think I have the points for that, unless I run them bare and drop the gift... doesn't seem worth it for models that won't be able to kill anything.

Edit: Another option would be to drop the shaggoth and extra gift for 4 dragon ogres with AHW. I've had better luck with GWs for all of my units since they have terrible initiative, anyway (with the exception of the shaggoth) but they're still strength 5 and get an extra attack...

First off, props on taking this to a tourny, awesome stuff

On the shaggy conundrum, I think drogres are the way to go, but only because they've got swiftstride (and are harder to take out with single artillery volleys). I'd really like 4, run 2x2 most likely, combo-charging with any of your other units to help them run their battered enemies down. Sure, the trollstar will rape anything they're allowed to touch, but having an extra unit to chase down the enemy and grab all the points is vital in 8th. As to what you arm them with, anything points permitting is probably fine, as the list has a bunch of S6 and S5 already. Great weapons would be nice but if it costs a drogre to do I'd rather the extra body / stomp myself. Ahw would let the unit go 4-wide and do some effective solo work, but I wonder about even no weapons? 'Cheap' at 260 points, and wastes no attaks when in 2x2 flanker / combo-charger formation. But then not sure that you need the extra points from that, so I'd probably say ahw (and no fury on the prince) is my choice.

- Salvage

Mmmmm, great idea! I have been having trouble running them because they are so wide, I think 2x2 may be the answer!

Daemon Prince, Lvl 1, MoT, Third Eye, Bloodcurdling Roar - 400
Throgg - 175
17 Trolls - 765
6 Ogres, Mus, Std, Chaos Armor, GWs - 330
6 Ogres, Mus, Std, Chaos Armor, GWs - 330
4 Dragon Ogres - 260
5 Hounds, Scaly Skin - 35
Hellcannon - 205
Total = 2500

Naked Drogres (so committing myself to running them 2x2), and dropping a unit of hounds and Fury, allows me to fit in the chaos armor.

What do you think? The Ogres are probably now a higher priority target, but the Shaggoth has been quite a liability for me. I like including the Drogres since I've converted them! But want to make sure they work for the list as a whole.

Edit: I have to say I'm going to be tempted to find a way to put Fury of the Blood God back in there. By, perhaps, dropping the musicians (*gasp!*). I don't know, I feel like I'm going to need it!! As RantheCid said, a smart opponent is going to make the DP priority target number 1, and against direct damage spells I could really use that better save... I'd even consider changing Roar directly over to Fury, but I probably shouldn't be quite that paranoid.

Scaly skin on the hounds to round things out?

I dig it personally, and I know the ogres are happy to have the 4+ armor. Keeping the points a bit down on the prince and drogres is probably a small bonus too, as one is Target #1 and the other is still overcosted for what it does. The single unit of hounds is I suppose a bummer but certainly useless for doggy duties.

As to wrassling at DakkaCon, getting a game between your big monsters and my little monsters would seem a natural ... but I didn't call you out because it's going to be a really difficult game for my skaven I have nothing to even dent the trollstar with (so 765 points I can't get), and there are only 8 models (the warhounds and the hellcannon's minders) that don't wound me on 2+. This is ignoring how impossible hellcannons by themselves are to deal with. I'm warming up to the challenge, but it's really pretty daunting!

- Salvage

We can always have a non-balls-to-the-wall game at DakkaCon, where the giant comes back in and happily dances around and the trolls are split into 2 units like my usual. Still waiting for those good giant table results to happen sometime!

Also, just to note- the guy organizing the tournament, last time I saw him, had a Kairos list... and most of the other lists had deathstars (of the chosen or bloodletter variety, usually). So I'm trying to come up with something that can compete... that's the context here! I'm not busting out horde trolls in any friendly games

And scaly skin added in!

I think I actually want to face the trollstar of doom with my Dark Elves, get some Manticore vs. Daemon Prince action! Of course, if those two gorgeous models collide it might destroy the building...

I love that your also trying to tool this "Monster Mash" up for a tourny! Hopefully it will do well.

Though with it being for a tournament, Im noticing a few things.

BSB- I really think you should try and fit one in there somehow, possibly one on a disk with Charmed shield and the 4+ ward save talisman (flying around with a 3+ ward save and ignoring the first would on a 2+ could be quite annoying for your opponent). Granted Throgg lets you reroll your break tests, I fear that you might get skrewed over by stupidity.

Daemon Prince- I have actually been meaning to try out a very similar DP build, so it seems like a more reliable choice then most other Lords would be for this army build.

Chaos Ogres- Cant really say much here, as I havent had a chance to use them myself. You have no marks on them though which I find odd. Thats personally one of the only reasons I would take them in this army. But it seems like they can hold their own in most situations which is a plus.

Dragon Ogres- Im honestly not too sure what use they will be in the game with only 4 of them in there. I think those points would be better off getting the BSB.

Hounds- I really havent found much use out of these guys in my own monster army, so not really sure they will make much difference.

I guess overall the biggest thing Im noticing is the lack of BSB, and the Drogres sucking up a fair sum of points considering 4 of them wont do too much damage.

Maybe something more like this?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daemon Prince- LvL1, MoT, Fury of the Blood god, Third Eye, Bloodcurdling Roar- 420

Throgg- 175

Exalted- BSB, MoT, Disk, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield- 215

17 Chaos Trolls- 765

6 Chaos Ogres- MoK, Great Weapons, Chaos Armour, Musician, Standard- 360

6 Chaos Ogres- MoK, Great Weapons, Chaos Armour, Musician, Standard- 360

Hellcannon- 205

Total- 2500

So with this, you get your fury back on the Daemon Prince, you get a very survivable/mobile BSB, and you even get marks on the Ogres while not having to throw away the Musicians!

I was actually surprised by the lack of a BSB as well, but chocked it up to RT being fluffy and wanting to stick with the monstrous theme. I agree with you Butts, if I were going to add in a BSB I'd drop the drogres and make sure the BSB had a disc - cause you guessed it, swiftstride is the sex. I like your build too, if a bit overly defensive for my taste. All the same, here's my tweakage:

L: DP + fury, -roar = 0
H: Exalted - MoT, BSB, charmed shield, talisman of protection, roar, disc = 235
C: 5 (Moar) Warhounds = 30

For the cost of the drogres and the scaly skin. Certainly a working proposition, if a little theme eruptive.

- Salvage

Wow, that is really tempting! Will try to think of a suitable conversion for the BSB on disc.

Normally, I wouldn't consider it, but I am trying to beef up for the tourney, and you're right about the stupidity being a big problem! It just seems a shame to need a BSB just for that, since I'll get re-rolls on panic (will of chaos) and break (throgg) tests anyway. But I think you're both right on about it! I do like having hounds more than MoK, I think... they've been really clutch in some games (and admittedly done nothing but die in others).

So that'd make the list:

Daemon Prince, Lvl 1, MoT, Third Eye, Fury of the Blood God - 400
Exalted, BSB, MoT, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Protection, Bloodcurdling Roar, Disc - 235
Throgg - 175
17 Trolls - 765
6 Ogres, Mus, Std, Chaos Armor, GWs - 330
6 Ogres, Mus, Std, Chaos Armor, GWs - 330
5 Hounds - 30
5 Hounds - 30
Hellcannon - 205
Total = 2500

You guys are good! I'm feeling guilty about how scary that looks. Granted, it seems like it would suffer greatly against a gunline, but against a lot of the builds I saw, I think it would hold up pretty well.

(Edit- pics moved to the P&M blog section!)

Salvage - could you describe why you allocated the gifts the way you did? It seems like the BSB is more fragile, and so could use Fury more than the DP. Although, it's tempting to keep Roar on the BSB, and give the DP Steam of Corruption... breath weapon-in-combat goodness! Especially since I have one less unit now, that could be a good crowd-thinner. Given what you said about the most competitive level not having a lot of direct damage spells, do you think that'd be a better use for the 20 points?

Kirbinator- I think you're right although I still am using the GW DP model atm, while I wait for it!

Buttler - Thanks for coming up with the BSB idea! So far, I have felt the ogres did OK, and I feel I need them for the banners, just in case, so I can at least take the field for a Blood & Glory mission. With the BSB in the mix now, I can even lose one of them and still be in the game!

Here's my attempt at a fatty BSB on disc . Was so inspired by the thread I whipped him together last night! It will actually just be my "back-up" BSB, since I may borrow Buttler's idea for a PP model to use for one... but I want to have a GW version, too (just like with the DP).

I probably should have made the disc a bit lower in the air to require less suspension of disbelief, but I think all the spears help justify him riding high above the heads of his fellows... and he's growing on me the more I look at him. Good thing I didn't trade away those bits!

I used:
-Ogre Tyrant, minus tenderizer, minus gutplate
-Shaggoth double-handed axe with head cut off
-Boar Boyz spear tip
-Paper for the banners
-Ogre shield with knives bent outwards
-A needle file shaft for the pole
-A 50mm Privateer Press base for the disc
-Lots of Boar Boyz spear tips for the base
-Two stacked 50mm bases from Gale Force Nine for a bit more stability (shaft is put through a hole in the first and into the second)





Also, options I will keep in mind for the list:
1) Giving DP Steam of Corruption instead of Fury of the Blood God
2) Giving Ogres MoK instead of Chaos Armor

Tides.
I know this is your list, and have more experience, but I just don't like those hounds.

Maybe drop them and get some items, or upgrades for your units?

What I do is this... I look at my odd ball unit, in this case the hounds. I see how much they're worth, then I think to myself "It'd be nice if I cold give 'so-and-so' this or that".

Think of every little thing you could do, it might be better than you thought.

Also this might sound like blasphemy but -Cough!- "Try 16 trolls..."

Yurrghh. This would ruin me, I think. Glad I'm not facing it, and really looking forward to hearing the reports. I don't have any idea how I'd deal with that before it got stuck in to combat. Basically would have to get lucky with shooting...

I don't know, RZ- I feel like you may be able to outmanuever me, perhaps sacrifice your lord to kill throgg (I need to check if they're the same initiative or not) and shoot down the DP. Then, that deathstar becomes a LD 4 liability...

You can also take off their regen with your flaming artillery for the rest to then pile on with.

That said, I'd rather have this than any of my others against you (although I probably wouldn't take it, given the balance of your lists... this will be for hardcore, non-comp tournaments only!).

Savior, I know Buttler feels similarly about hounds, but mine have been really, really valuable in many games. They help keep things from getting behind me, or they harass artillery, or the two units stacked together can be used to hold up an uber unit for a turn (the unit charges one, wipes it out, and overruns into the next). All for a price just over the cost of a single of my ogres! They've saved my bacon a few times, and also give me a few more drops to make sure my trollstar ends up in the right place, and doesn't have to come down too early.

I'm with you on the hounds. Admittedly I only ever see them from the other side of the board, but I always feel like if I even pay attention to them once, they've paid for themselves. At such a low cost, they can still tie up a warmachine for a round or two (or even kill 'em if they're lucky).

I suppose ive never thought about using hounds like that, might have to give it a whirl. I dont think youll want to put vury on the bsb though, as this will deny him from taking both his magic items and thus become much more squishy. i think that last list will work well though.

It's another thing I haven't done in a friendly game, Buttler, but it was used against me in a tourney and dang it's a good trick .

I'm really pleased with the last list, too- thanks for all the help everyone!!

I'm also going to probably use the model you linked me to... trying to figure out where to buy it, and where I can get 2 replacement 50mm PP bases for the ones I'm stealing for these disks (I'm assuming I'll use a 50mm one for the PP model as well, although it's pictured on a 40mm). The 40mm ones I have also have the slot cut out, which I could fill in, but the larger disc seems to look good, anyway.

I'll be mounting it lower and looking for a different banner material, as well!

Looks like fun. Also looking forward to hearing how it does vs. all comers.

- Blackbone

Will definitely update everyone when I get to try it out, possibly as soon as this weekend!

Also, I bent the banner back on the BSB a bit at Jin's suggestion, to give more of an impression of speed

Please do come back.

I expect to see those Hounds do wonders then.

I just thought of another option- dropping the chaos armor to get the DP another wizard level (so with MoT he'll be casting at +3... not bad!) and the Steam of Corruption (S3 breath weapon). I know boogeyman has been trying out a DP with more than one wizard level, not sure how it's worked so far though. It would give him a lot more utility, at the cost of the ogres' survivability. Another option I'll keep in mind for tweaking the list!

Now if I could just get someone to want to face it...

Drop 1 troll -Cough.-

I am pretty sure he is running them with 17 + Throgg so he can go horde if it suits him.

I really like the list RT. I see the use for the hounds, but they are also a quick 60 vps for your opponent and the rest of your units already have a movement of 6. I might drop them for that extra magic level and something pretty.

So much hate for the hounds . You're right about my running the trolls in horde formation... vomit from the third rank? Yes.

Will see how the armor fares, and if the DP ends up with not having much to do, to decide if he needs the extra level more than the ogres need the armor. If I do this, I think I may give the extra gift to the BSB instead- if I get desperate and need to stick these guys into combat (or send them to take out a flimsy unit), he could use the help from the breath weapon more than the DP (also keeps the DP a bit cheaper). Look for a bat rep when I get to try all this out!

I wish there was a way to get banner of eternal flame in the list, but the BSB needs his survival gear, so the only thing I'll have to get through to an HPA / Hydra with no regen will be perhaps some flickering fire. Would also be nice to get him necrotic phylactery, but it's probably best just to go with the uber ward save option.

The only reason I'm suggesting to drop 1 is for points. 17 Doesn't seem right to me.

17 does sound weird, but when Throgg is in there, it is an even 18 to let him go 6 wide for horde which means his third rank gets to vomit.

I see... I'm one of those people that only goes 10-15-16-18-20; get what I'm saying?

Maybe? Does that compulsion not apply when you intend to add characters to the unit?

Putting Throgg in a unit of 17 gives it a nice complete 6x3 look, without any gaps.

I see.. I think it's more of a list thing.

Call it whatever you want OCD for list building or whatever, but I like seeing it even.