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Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





Derek H wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

As for the New Kingdom, they also fought on boats and by siege. Chariots are the dream, but I can still get excited for the archers and footmen.


If you want a historical New Kingdom army you have to have chariots.



They can at least fight the sea people - though I wish somebody would make some good plastic Sea People.

   
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Carlovonsexron wrote:
Derek H wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

As for the New Kingdom, they also fought on boats and by siege. Chariots are the dream, but I can still get excited for the archers and footmen.


If you want a historical New Kingdom army you have to have chariots.



They can at least fight the sea people - though I wish somebody would make some good plastic Sea People.
Part of the problem is "who are the Sea People(s)?" There are multiple hypotheses for their origins, such as Mycenaean Greeks, Italians, Trojans, even Philistines. So any minis company would need to decide which hypothesis to follow and sculpt accordingly. That being said, I'd prefer that a nationality that has already existing minis (like the Mycenaean Greeks for example) be ignored in favor of a valid hypothesis that results in a new product, regardless of material.

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SoCal

Aren’t they considered to be an alliance of many peoples? The Egyptian inscriptions even give a bunch of their names, such as the Peleset, Sherden, Ekwesh, Danuna, Shekelesh, and so on. They had a wide variety of armor and equipment. With the prevalence of mercenaries and migratory populations, the “Sea People” seem like a good faction of you want to throw together a bunch of Bronze Age warriors.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





All of the above in both posts is correct- however, "sea people' in terms of miniatures typically means the two distinct types of armor known to have been used by them: The arms of the Sherden, which seems to correlate closely to warriors from Sardinia, and the Peleset, which a case - though not particularly strong- can be made for association with Crete. (Using the iconography on the Phaistos disk. However, other depictions of soldiers with an association with Crete, from the frescoes in Akrotiri show helms hanging in ships that bear more similarity to Mycenaean Boars Tusk helmets. (of course, there begins the debate of who the people in the ship are supposed to depict, if they are Minoans/Aegeans from Akrotiri, or mainlander Mycenaeans, but that's a different story.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also,important to note is that if the Sherden were made they can also be used by a New Kingdom Egyptian army as the Royal Guard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/15 09:10:44


   
Made in de
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior





Germany

Sherden and Peleset would also make some of the fantasy crowd happy. To me they always looked more like an invention of Robert E. Howard and less like real historical warriors

Though I still hope for Assyrians. One of the coolest looking and certainly THE most competent army of it's time. Very popular but only a few mediocre metal ranges out there... so far.

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Germany

Also, this Friday's Sneak Peek.
[Thumb - smeaky.PNG]


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Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Garfield666 wrote:
Sherden and Peleset would also make some of the fantasy crowd happy. To me they always looked more like an invention of Robert E. Howard and less like real historical warriors


I can't lie - I have a dual purpose for wanting them myself!

While GW sculpts are amazing, I am honestly keen to not feel so behold to new, unmutated chaos models to get my Hyborian era fix.

I also know a thing or two about the bronze age Aegean, and am always keen to scratch that it as well!

   
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sea people are bound to be deep ones (or maybe sea devils if you accept Dr Who as factual)

looks like the wwi russians are in the sculptors computer, (which will work as post revolution white russians, not so sure about bolsheviks, i think they used different stuff beyond a change of head gear, at least in the early years)

 
   
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'






 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
sea people are bound to be deep ones

I'm vaguely baffled that nobody seems to do plastic Lovecraft monsters, and few people seem to do Lovecraft miniatures at all, despite them being hugely popular with roleplayers and board-gamers. Deep ones and mythos ghouls are generic enough they could get used in all kinds of settings. Elder things seem ideally suited to plastic, since their radial symmetry means you can just make a handful of 'wings' and 'arms' then put five of each on a body.

   
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Quick search on Wayland gets me two full blown Lovecraft miniature skirmish games and a board game with 28mm minis. That's without counting all the fringe garage casters nor the coy off-brand stuff that's crammed into almost every miniatures game.


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And not to forget something like 90% of the Nightsalker army from KoW ...
   
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Florida

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
sea people are bound to be deep ones (or maybe sea devils if you accept Dr Who as factual)

looks like the wwi russians are in the sculptors computer, (which will work as post revolution white russians, not so sure about bolsheviks, i think they used different stuff beyond a change of head gear, at least in the early years)


Speaking as a hobbyist and also a historical research specialist:

"Sea people" is a name commonly used to refer to Bronze age Hittites in various extant contemporary sources.

Most likely we (as in DAKKA) are looking at the hittites as a box to oppose the new Kingdom Egyptians and potentially drive sales of both boxes.

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SoCal

Not to get too far off topic, but where did you hear that? I thought most of our information about the Sea Peoples came from Egyptian sources, such as Medinet Habu, and the Egyptians imply the Sea People destroyed the Hittites. Of course, The Egyptians never called them “Sea Peoples” but rather discussed them as coalitions or conspiracies of many nations, including northerners, people from the isles, people from the green sea, Lybians, and possibly people from the levant.

The Phillistines/Peleset are probably the most well known of the Sea People, coming from the island(?) of Caphtor and having been resettled near Canaan by the Egyptians. Pottery and genetic testing seems to indicate an Aegean origin for them, but there were so many migrations and mixing of cultures it’s likely we’ll never know for sure.

   
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https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/49875/flash-poll-vote-for-a-new-period

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Florida

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Not to get too far off topic, but where did you hear that? I thought most of our information about the Sea Peoples came from Egyptian sources, such as Medinet Habu, and the Egyptians imply the Sea People destroyed the Hittites. Of course, The Egyptians never called them “Sea Peoples” but rather discussed them as coalitions or conspiracies of many nations, including northerners, people from the isles, people from the green sea, Lybians, and possibly people from the levant.

The Phillistines/Peleset are probably the most well known of the Sea People, coming from the island(?) of Caphtor and having been resettled near Canaan by the Egyptians. Pottery and genetic testing seems to indicate an Aegean origin for them, but there were so many migrations and mixing of cultures it’s likely we’ll never know for sure.


To answer your first question: I've heard the hittites refered to as part of the over-arching sea peoples group. From memory, I would put that in a reference book, although I admit bronze age eastern Mediterranean was not my focus area.

My point is that that particular listing in the progress tracker most likely does not refer to deep ones or anything lovecraftian.

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SoCal

I see what you mean. I did not take his comment to mean WGA was bound to make the Sea People as Lovecraftian monsters so much as Sea People are bound to be used to create Lovecraftian deep ones and their cult.

Since I plan to make at least some Dagon-worshiping Sea People minis, that was my conclusion as well.

   
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Cairo, Egypt


https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/49875/flash-poll-vote-for-a-new-period

Earlier Roman Stuff
Successors
Early Hundred Years War (Crecy/Poitiers)
English Civil War/30 Years War
War of Spanish Succession
Seven Years War
Vietnam War
American Civil War


In this context who are the Successors?

(I vote for Vietnam but I have absolutely no idea what the Successors are)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/19 08:46:15


 
   
Made in eu
Regular Dakkanaut






 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/49875/flash-poll-vote-for-a-new-period

Earlier Roman Stuff
Successors
Early Hundred Years War (Crecy/Poitiers)
English Civil War/30 Years War
War of Spanish Succession
Seven Years War
Vietnam War
American Civil War


In this context who are the Successors?

(I vote for Vietnam but I have absolutely not idea what the Successors are)


That would be the diadochoi, Alexander's successors who tried to work in the mess he left and made even more messes in the process.

   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/49875/flash-poll-vote-for-a-new-period

Earlier Roman Stuff
Successors
Early Hundred Years War (Crecy/Poitiers)
English Civil War/30 Years War
War of Spanish Succession
Seven Years War
Vietnam War
American Civil War


In this context who are the Successors?

(I vote for Vietnam but I have absolutely not idea what the Successors are)
Alexander's Successors. His generals tore his empire apart after his death. Cleopatra VII, the last monarch of an independent Egypt was of the Ptolemaic dynasty, one of the few Successor dynasties that lasted. Ptolemy was the smart one. He stole Alexander's body and marched down into Egypt. He then holed up there and stayed out of the big fight for the whole empire. So at least his dynasty survived for 275 years. His rivals did not do as well.

As for why stealing the body was important ... It was Macedonian custom for the designated heir to the king to direct and oversee the burial of his predecessor. So by burying Alexander, Ptolemy was claiming that he was the legitimate heir to Alexander, and his rivals false claimants.

Regarding the poll. I did not vote. Only the first two interest me enough to game in them, and I already own a Macedonian army. (Unassembled and unpainted, but that's par for the course.) Similarly, there's enough early Roman stuff out there, even some in plastic, so it seems better if WGA covers a neglected period in historical gaming.

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Cairo, Egypt

Ah yes, thanks.

I keep meaning to poke around the desert looking for Alex's tomb. Gotta be around here somewhere.

 
   
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The term "Sea People" is a refference to egypt chronicals which mentioned those foreign marauders with "they came from the sea".

They came possible from Sardinia, Mycene, the Arzawa States and Cyprus.
   
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Judging by the comments it looks like Vietnam's going to be the obvious frontrunner. Not too surprising given it's a relatively untapped period at 28mm and the amount of US voters.
   
Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





 McDougall Designs wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Not to get too far off topic, but where did you hear that? I thought most of our information about the Sea Peoples came from Egyptian sources, such as Medinet Habu, and the Egyptians imply the Sea People destroyed the Hittites. Of course, The Egyptians never called them “Sea Peoples” but rather discussed them as coalitions or conspiracies of many nations, including northerners, people from the isles, people from the green sea, Lybians, and possibly people from the levant.

The Phillistines/Peleset are probably the most well known of the Sea People, coming from the island(?) of Caphtor and having been resettled near Canaan by the Egyptians. Pottery and genetic testing seems to indicate an Aegean origin for them, but there were so many migrations and mixing of cultures it’s likely we’ll never know for sure.


To answer your first question: I've heard the hittites refered to as part of the over-arching sea peoples group. From memory, I would put that in a reference book, although I admit bronze age eastern Mediterranean was not my focus area.

My point is that that particular listing in the progress tracker most likely does not refer to deep ones or anything lovecraftian.


The 'sea peoples' are known primarily in Egyptian sources, but are referred to in general by others, or at least alluded to, thanks to how much international correspondence manages to survive from that time.

They were not the Hittites, nor a referenced used for them as A)The Hittites were a very well known entity, and B) They (the Sea Peoples) are attributed with the Destruction of the Hittite empire.

There seem to be several members of the group that originated in Anatolia (See: Lukka, maybe the Teresh), the same region as the Hittites, but that is as close a connection as one comes.

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





I wonder if people voting Vietnam want not-Catachan. Which is kinda dumb because WG won't make Arnolds. Also, a ton of companies already makes Vietnam era vehicles - so that leaves infantry only. Which is going to be kind of worthless without opponent (either 70s Soviets, far rarer tabletop design and more deserving of model range entry, or either one of various tiny states USA attacked in the 70s).

RazorEdge wrote:
The term "Sea People" is a refference to egypt chronicals which mentioned those foreign marauders with "they came from the sea".

They came possible from Sardinia, Mycene, the Arzawa States and Cyprus.

That's the problem, we know so little of them historians can't even agree from which end of the Mediterranean they come from initially. I think every single place from Gibraltar to Palestine had been speculated to be origin point at least once.
   
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SoCal

My understanding is that the current consensus has the Sea People being multiple waves of many different migrating populations from pretty much everywhere along the Mediterranean as drought, population pressure and economic collapse caused people to flee from their homelands and cities. Besides, by the end of the Bronze Age, the maritime trade routes were well established and frequented, with many harbors having a cosmopolitan mix of traders, sailors, diplomats, mercenaries and so on. They might have had more in common with each other than with their landlubber neighbors.


   
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MN

The Sea Peoples are an over-hyped part of the Bronze Age collapse anyway. They are a hang-over of when everything in History was about "Clash of Civilizations" and warfare based on Nationalism.

We "historians" are more modern now, and it is all based on climate change!

That said, if you have New Kingdom Egypt, you really do need someone for them to fight. Hittites, Sea Peoples, Assyrians, Kushites/Nubians, etc.

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They would appear to be a pretty integral part of it- they might have been the last straw that broke the camels back, but without that last straw we might still have had a camel!

   
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Austria

 Arbitrator wrote:
Judging by the comments it looks like Vietnam's going to be the obvious frontrunner. Not too surprising given it's a relatively untapped period at 28mm and the amount of US voters.

for now only Rubicon Models is expanding on Vietnam, so another set that expands that range could be nice

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The sea people impact was weaker then many thing.

The Hethite Empire was plagued with famine and following uprisings, western part was invaed by "land people" like Proto-Thracians and Phrygians.
The new Kingdom Egypt could defeat them but failed on "prosperity neglectation" a centuriy later
The Kassites also were plagues by famine and were conquered by the Elamites
The Sea People hadn't any inpact on the middle Assyrians
Some Mycenean Cities were destroyed
Most destruction was caused on cannanite City States like Ugarit and few Hethite Cities in the Levantes

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/19 18:30:16


 
   
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SoCal

 Easy E wrote:
The Sea Peoples are an over-hyped part of the Bronze Age collapse anyway. They are a hang-over of when everything in History was about "Clash of Civilizations" and warfare based on Nationalism.

We "historians" are more modern now, and it is all based on climate change!

That said, if you have New Kingdom Egypt, you really do need someone for them to fight. Hittites, Sea Peoples, Assyrians, Kushites/Nubians, etc.


Yeah, they might not have been the scourge previously portrayed. But when you want to make a wargame, you kind of have to focus on the violent bits.

   
 
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