Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey folks!

In an effort to self-moderate and avoid drama I'm shifting my content to the blog I share with Hulksmash. This article has been relocated here: http://hulksmash-homeplace.blogspot.com/2011/06/dashofpeppers-guide-to-tournament.html

Great guide!

Excellent guide! Definitely should be an article!

My only concern is that your list of six builds to make sure you can play against features five variants of 'mech', and not even a hint of the idea that you might have to play against one of the foot-based armies out there. There are a decent few;

footdar
nids
ork horde / kanwall
daemons
decent of blood angels
biker marines

Seriously, if you're ready for mech blood angels, aren't you also ready for mech space wolves?

+1 on the GaleForce9 Tac Template

Redbeard wrote:My only concern is that your list of six builds to make sure you can play against features five variants of 'mech', and not even a hint of the idea that you might have to play against one of the foot-based armies out there. There are a decent few;

footdar
nids
ork horde / kanwall
daemons
decent of blood angels
biker marines

Seriously, if you're ready for mech blood angels, aren't you also ready for mech space wolves?

I don't believe so. In my experience, if you're capable of dealing with the lists outlined here, you're also capable of dealing with pretty much everything else. Lascannons open up transports and land raiders....they also instagib marine bikers, deep-striking blood angels, work against kans, auto-wound nid MCs and wraith walkers, hurt warwalkers, etc. The lists that I run are almost completely focused on dealing with mechanized lists, and when I run into the various non-mechanized lists (and I have) I've had no trouble dealing with non-mechanized lists as well. Ravenwing/First Company Dark Angels took a beating last weekend, I play against a good Kan-wall player regularly (who runs 9 kans, nine buggies, 30 Lootas, KFFs with the rest being boys), I've faced Tyranids enough to have trouble respecting their codex, and while I haven't gotten to play against Daemons since August at the Nova Open against Yermom, I'm not worried about that matchup so much anymore.

However, that's the least important part of this guide - how to build a well balanced list isn't my focus here, its a minor note meant to get people to think about it - the primary purpose is to physically and mentally prepare for a tournament environment.

At a future time, I might consider creating a "How to build a balanced list," but probably not since it varies so much between codexes and probably isn't something that enough generalizations apply to make a non-specific codex guide that applies across the board. Keep in mind that while it is important to know how to face off against daemons for example...50% of 40k players don't play daemons. If you account for the the builds that I've listed, I think you've encompassed the majority of players, which for a noobie coming into the tournament realm is a good place to start. They'll sort out their list and what to bring based on the other advise I've given (most notably: Ask questions! and solicit feedback after your game).

Great guide! I don't agree with the no-custom-dice advice, obviously, since I use Dakka Dice but you're right on about needing to make sure all custom faces are on the same side, and pointing it out ahead of time, if you are going to use custom dice.

I'd like to third the Gale Force 9 template! For fantasy, that 45 degree arc measurement is invaluable.

Also, one of the biggest things for a new player is having a tray to move your army between games, as you mentioned- even if you don't have a display board, you need something other than the top of your case to move things to a new table on. The outside of transport cases are slippery plastic, so you can't just put them on top of there to move... I've seen someone have their whole army slide off when trying to transfer to a new a table that way!

Dashofpepper wrote:
At a future time, I might consider creating a "How to build a balanced list," but probably not since it varies so much between codexes and probably isn't something that enough generalizations apply to make a non-specific codex guide that applies across the board. Keep in mind that while it is important to know how to face off against daemons for example...50% of 40k players don't play daemons. If you account for the the builds that I've listed, I think you've encompassed the majority of players, which for a noobie coming into the tournament realm is a good place to start. They'll sort out their list and what to bring based on the other advise I've given (most notably: Ask questions! and solicit feedback after your game).

I think this is one of the most important and untapped sources of feedback. Even when I win, I make sure to ask my opponent if he thinks I made any mistakes, what they were, if he would have played anything differently. It's hard to take that advice sometimes (because not all gamers will tell you in a tactful fashion) but it's very useful to hear and evaluate and learn from. It also helps get a point of view that isn't skewed by your own ego (we all do it, mentally chalking losses/bad turns to dice, etc., as a way to shield ourselves from just acknowledging that we made a stupid mistake in the first place).

I like the post Dash, should try to do a formal article out of it!

This is an excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to write it! I'll definitely be sure to reread it before I start getting ready for any tournament I attend.

One additional item to add under materials is Templates. You'll feel silly trying to shoot a flamer without your flame template.

I realize it's kind of a duh thing, but both Dash and I forgot our dice when we went to Baton Rouge last weekend to socialize and play a few friendly games.

In my own, very limited experience, I am also bringing a small tackle/tool box. This lets me easily keep supplies such as glue, templates, dice, blu tac, a pin vice and pins, spare magnets, and the like on hand and organized, so that I can easily grab what I need to play or make a quick repair.

Mannahnin wrote:Excellent guide! Definitely should be an article!

Done.

Dash:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Tournament_Preparation_Guide

You can edit the document further here.

Good Guide, I just got back from a solid tourney this weekend, played agaisnt the previous winner and lost a close one to the best general during the rounds. but 2 of my opponents were seriously bad about the scatter dice location. When 12 fanatics were on the field scatter is key.

A couple of other things I have learned to always bring are:

Aspirin or Ibuprofin. Nothing sucks worse then getting a headache (probably because you didn't bring enough/ or drink enough water - see above) on game 2 and having to power through it and another game.

Some kind of snack - I like peanut butter crackers because they have protein to help focus you, sugar to jolt you awake, salt to help you stay hydrated. Plus it makes you thirsty so you drink more.

Also a little notebook if you want jot things down and a digital camera (I usually set mine to the 400x600 resolution since it is just going on the web and are typically not intended to be showcase pics).

That's pretty spot on. My only additional comment would be that if you insist on using custom dice pips, make sure you let your opponent know about them ("Just so you know, all the explosions are 6's") and at the very least, for Christ's sake, make sure they're all the same type. Nothing I hate more than having to remember that all the explosions are 6's, all the other colored dice's skulls are 1's and all of the other one's exclamation points are 4's.

Very Nice!

I would also sugust bringing extras of everything, and putting your name on any generic item. A uniquely painted army is fine, dice are cheap enough to expect to lose, but everything else should be labelled.

Good stuff, I know I wish I had read this years ago instead of having to learn it through experience. The internet is really creating a golden age in competitive gaming.

I'm going to add something in. Now I only skimmed the first secton so maybe you're adding this in later.

Strategy for winning the event:
1)You can build a balanced list
2) Unbalanced list

A balanced list gives you options to deal with ANY threat. It is as you put it, a take all comers list which can perform any task you want, but you need to be skilled to use it.

An unbalanced list will Destroy most of your competition.... but if you run into 1-3 things out there in the game... you can almost instantly lose.

an example of an unbalanced list would be fate crusher. Its very strong! But if you run into BA Raider spam (redeemers are typical), Or double lash chaos (and they lash you away from fate weaver into a clump and plasma cannon you to death) you'll win a good number of your games... but most likely won't win those match ups!

An unbalanced list could also be something that relies too much on 1-2 units to do everything. Sisters of battle run this risk when they rely solely on 3 exorcists to do all of their work Or nob Bikers run this with their 2 huge Nob blobs!

A balanced list approach will often require skill to win with and practice with your list. While an unbalanced approach (we'll call brute force), will win with less skill and hope for good match ups.

I'm a bigger fan of option #1 like Dash, but unblanced lists do show up!

I prefer to make sure my balanced list can handle all the unbalanced lists I can think of... which is a major consideration when making my lists.

I am going to disagree with:
"- like instead of moving 30 boyz 6" forward, grab the back three ranks and put them up front - you only have to move half the models. Things like that. "
But oinly disagreeing so far as to say, becareful about moving special weapons in the unit around like this.... as moving from the back rank up to the front, can really really give a huge range advantage.

I tend to disagree with bringing a competitive list. Bring a list you will have fun playing. sure some people winning = fun. some people like to bring the crazy lists. the 6 landraiders or 10 dread list and are happy if they finish 2-2-1

The list should be competitive for the environment. If you bring a fluff list to a hard core tourney you will not have fun and neither will your opponents. Conversely if you go to a comp/fun tourney and bring your A game list you will be depriving yourself of the best experience.

If in doubt contact the TO and see what the expectation is.

One thing I'd like to add from personal experience.

Make sure both players use the same dice. Less dice kicking around the table, no chance of one person walking walk with 2 scatter dice, no cries of rigged dice...etc.

Some people might balk at this; "I don't want that guy manhandling my dice!", then just use theirs.

Also, please for the love of god, avoid stupid colored dice. One of my friends has "Slaanesh" dice that are grey/pink with white pips. It is EXTREMELY difficult to see what face is up from 5 feet across the table. Less eye strain is nice after 10 hours of gaming!


NO

Also.

I've faced Tyranids enough to have trouble respecting their codex

made me a little sad.

Good writeup. I disagree about list creation though - play whatever you want! That advice is only good if your ultimate goal is to be in a strong position to win every game. Playing ROCK and hoping you don't run into scissors is a very viable strategy, especially in a three round tournament. Playing an army you like and not worrying too much about winning is also fine.

The other thing I'd disagree with is Army Builder. I use it, it's fine, but I think it's much better for making/testing lists yourself than it is for providing your opponents printed lists. The lists I get from people who do not use Army Builder are almost always more readable, and I'm very used to Army Builder. People who don't use Army Builder often look at my printed list and say "just tell me what's in your army, I can't read that thing". YMMV, just my experience.

Somnicide wrote:The list should be competitive for the environment. If you bring a fluff list to a hard core tourney you will not have fun and neither will your opponents. Conversely if you go to a comp/fun tourney and bring your A game list you will be depriving yourself of the best experience.

If in doubt contact the TO and see what the expectation is.

I have brought silly lists to the last few large events I have been to. both adepticons, the last baltimore gt, and others. always have fun and always finish in the top 50%. last year I had skarbrand seriously skarbrand. one year had an 888 point khorne biker unit. different is good. I guess this goes towards unbalanced list theory. I am a fan of unbalanced lists they fit my play style

Carnage43 wrote:Also, please for the love of god, avoid stupid colored dice. One of my friends has "Slaanesh" dice that are grey/pink with white pips. It is EXTREMELY difficult to see what face is up from 5 feet across the table. Less eye strain is nice after 10 hours of gaming!


NO

The value of high-contrast dice cannot be overstated. Bringing hard to read dice is just asking for headaches and opponent annoyance. Good addition!

I like it a lot dash! In-depth and interesting read. Good stuff!

(Messaging this to a few buddies right now actually)

Great tips. I just went to my first tournament last weeknd. I wished someone would have suggested playing a list that was easy to use/maneuver instead of making a poor attempt at list that I thought would be competetive (0 for 5!).
I'd say the worst part of the tournament was feeling guilty for not knowing enough of the rules, holding up the game and having to ask my opponents questions. They were all very helpful and friendly, but really, odds are they are paying to be in a competetive environment, not babysitting. Plus the game pace of a tournament can really put you out of your element.
This is the type of guide that should be posted on any website that is advertising a tournament!

Please please don't get wrapped up around list creation or what makes a winning or losing list. AThis thread is only about how to have a successfully tournament experience, not to debate what it takes to win a tournament....please don't get rapped up in that piece of it.

My apologies if I was misunderstood. Among all of the other great points you made (and I wished I had thought of) I was just saying that I may have shown up to a tournament with a list that was a little too complex for a "rookie" to be trying to manage in a 2.5 hour game.

I think this is an excellent post.

I must slightly disagree on keeping track of KP and VP. I find keeping track of the difference is key. The total is not important, but the exact difference is a must. Perhaps that is what you meant, but I didn't read it that way. Knowing the exact total can tell you exactly what you can afford to risk, where as a general idea will diminish your ability to know exactly what risk you are taking.

Keep in mind that I am talking about doing this in your head, not out loud or in concert with your opponent. If you are able to do this in your head and they are not, you have an advantage in information needed to make good bets/decisions.

yeah personally I keep track of kill points like people count cards. I am either even, +1 or -1 (or whatever the difference is).

measuring:

the finger of death: when your opponent measures out six or twelve inches on his move feel free to place your finger where the tape ends so he knows exactly where 6 inches is. there are times when leaning across the table when it is difficult to measure accurately then move your guy that distance. you are being helpful speeding up the movement and eliminating extendo tape