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So I played a game the other day with a friend who Plays Nids and while it didn't come up in the game the following question did come up. Wasn't able to find it with the search function either.

If Rough Riders charge a unit that has Lash Whips which takes precedence?

Do the Riders swing at I1?

Do the Whips make them I1 and they still strike at I5 because the lance gives a set value for the strikes?

Would something I'm missing here happen instead?

Thanks in advance for any input.
Cheers,
~Volkan

I don't know for sure, but I would think that the lash whips take precedence.

Think of the RR having a I5 base. Then apply what ever the lash whips do.

Gosh, thats an interesting question.

I am not familiar with Hunting lances, so I am not 100% sure.

However a model with furious charge is at I2 when up against a Lash whip, and Banshee masks still strike @ I10

According to the FAQ.


Q: If a model with Lash Whips is attacking a model
with an Initiative-boosting rule/piece of wargear (e.g.
Furious Charge, an Eldar Banshee Mask etc.), which
order are the Initiatives modified?
A: The Lash Whips will reduce an enemy model’s
initiative to 1 before any other modifiers are
applied. So, a model with Furious Charge that
assaults a Tyranid with Lash Whips will strike at
Initiative 2, and an Eldar with a Banshee Mask will
strike at Initiative 10 in the first round of assault

Hope this helps.

From Nid FAQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490299a_FAQ_Tyranids_2010.pdf

So the RR would have initive 3?

That sounds right, but darn does that suck.

Rough Riders aren't often used, so this problem won't come up often.

No, RR would have I5

The lances do NOT add +2I to their stat, nor do they add +2S - not anymore at least. They simply strike at I5 and S5

As such this is "initiative boosting wargear" and so they would be reduced to I1, then raised back to I5, as per the FAQ.

Remember: the nid FAQs modus operandi appears to be "make the nids suck", so go for the interpretation that hurts them...

But you're forgetting about the other FAQ imperative: If at all possible, if a ruling goes one way for the Eldar then it has to go the other way for Imperial Guard. So I'd bet a handful of round bases that the FAQ would make an exception for Rough Riders to strike at I1.

Given the FAQ, the Rough Riders would first be dropped down to I1 by the lash whips, but then since the hunting lance modifies their strength and initiative to 5, they strike at that. A strict reading of the FAQ gives us that conclusion, regardless of any amusing biases the writers of the FAQs have.

Nosferatu1001 is correct.

It's exactly the same reason Banshee masks are still I10.

DoW

nosferatu1001 wrote:Remember: the nid FAQs modus operandi appears to be "make the nids suck", so go for the interpretation that hurts them...

SOOOOO RIIIIIIGHT...

hunting lance doesn't modify the users str/I it causes the hits to resolve at that S/I

so they would still go normally iirc.

and yeah the FAQ screwed nids badly, basically everything that could go against them, did.

Grundz - it is wargear that modifies initiative, so it falls under the FAQ ruling for Banshee Masks.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Grundz - it is wargear that modifies initiative, so it falls under the FAQ ruling for Banshee Masks.

no

banshee masks raise the models initiative to 10
RR lances say "attacks resolve as S5/I5 and count as power weapons)

It symantecs, but it is not the same because the RR is not modified, just his attacks resolve differently for one turn, like a Pfist.

It is wargear that has the effect of modifying the initiative you make your attacks at. WHich it definitely does do, as you no longer strike at I3....

It does not actually change your init, as you point out, but it DOES fall under the FAQ ruling.

Ok thanks for the replies folks, That was the conclusion we had thought was right. I figured getting some feedback from folks who had more experience with these types of issues was warranted though.
@Valhallan42 I use Rough Riders from time to time so that is the reason I figured I should get a better grasp of the situation.
Thanks again folks.

Cheers,
~Volkan

I've seen some other similar posts about LW vs. this-and-that.
Another was LW vs. the Ork Mob Rule!, which in that case the conclusion was to the Ork's advantage, as the rule states: "... Ork mobs may always choose to substitude the number of Orks in their mob for their normal leadership value. ..."

Basically, as i read the RAW, a model has a basic Ld value, which can be defined as a static Ld value.
- What Lash Whip does is change the BTB-models basic/static value to 1, and hence any tempoarily/active value will then be added (in the case of the Orks, their static value is decreased, but the player can then ayways choose to use "the number of Orks in their mob".).

Billinator - Lash Whip affects your Init, NOT your leadership.

I think his argument is that the same concepts that go towards Ork leadership with the mob rule apply also to the Lash Whip modifying INitiative stats. E.g. The model has a set stat of 3 for Initiative, the Lash Whip modifies this stat down to 1, but then the temporary value of 5 cuts in.

Hate to say it, but who ever siad that since RR arte rarly taken its a moot poinbt anyways.

Enough said.

Instead of using GWs tyranids FAQ, I recommend one made by Gwar!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/296151.page
I found it much more useful and accurate than GW FAQ

Unfortunately the GW FAQ is the official rules, and as awesome as Gwar! is, his interpretation is not official.

Games-Workshop wrote:

The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'.

And that's how "official" GW FAQs are.

Tenets of YMDC wrote:
2. The only official sources of information are the current rulebooks and the Games Workshop FAQs. Emails from Askyourquestion@games-workshop.com are technically official, but they are easily spoofed and should not be relied on.

Here they count as RAW.

Doesn't really help when FAQ goes against the rules. But if people want to use them as RAW, then they should.
I was just recommending Gwars! FAQ since it's more accurate.

How could one possibly consider the opinion of one individual, who isn't related to GW in any way to be 'more accurate'? Onecould say 'I prefer his decisions' or 'I feel that he makes a simpler call', I guess. But how could anyone be more accurate than the people who actually make the game? It's their game after all...

Thunder555 wrote:Doesn't really help when FAQ goes against the rules. But if people want to use them as RAW, then they should.
I was just recommending Gwars! FAQ since it's more accurate.

Gwar! is indeed awesome, and clearly his legacy lives on. However, Gwar!'s FAQ is his opinion. I could not use it as official material in a rule debate, nor could I use it as a tournament as justification. A GW FAQ is the most accurate you can get, as it's a way that you can determine how they wanted the game to be played...it's impossible to get more accurate than that.

his legacy? ... Didn't know that he was gone until now. :(