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Ok, so here's my question on tests made against a model's characteristic (ie - Str Tests, Tgh Tests, etc...)

Are the tests made against the base number of the models stat line (in other words, "unadjusted"), or the "adjusted value", whether it be due to an item that raises a stat (ie - a Great Weapon or Halberd) or a spell (ie - Flesh to Stone).

Had this discussion with a friend during a game, and we couldn't find any confirmation as to which should be used. We went with the "adjusted value", but I'd like to know for future reference.

Thanks everyone!

I think it was recently FAQ'd that stat bonuses from weapons generally only count during CC.

Otherwise, I would say that if you have a buffed Stat from magic that you would use the augmented stat for the test. I may be wrong, though.

If it's for a weapon then I'd say it doesn't count. But from magic or armour of a chaos gift or something then I'd say use the adjusted stat.

It is my understanding that the weapons only provide bonuses in specific situations (+2 S during the first round of combat, for example, or +1 S when rolling to wound or to adjust a save). I'll see if I can dig up a specific page in the BRB when I get back home tonight, but unless a weapon specifically has language to suggest it applies outside of those situations, I wouldn't assume it was given.

If you have a great weapon, you dont have S+2 all the time - only when resolving attacks.

If a spell buffs / debuffs you, you test on the altered value UNLESS the spell states otherwise - that is in the FAQ for sure...

Basically the latest FAQ says that bonuses which don't limit when they apply, apply all the time. I believe their specific example is the Fencer's Blades vs. a Greatweapon. The Fencer's Blades say "The model is WS10", while the Greatweapon says "+2 S in close combat". Unless an effect specifically calls for using the unmodified stat (e.g., spirit leech) then you use whatever the current stat value is. If you have a Throne of Vines'd Stoneflesh up and are rocking a temporary T8, then you test on T8 (remembering that a '6' always fails).

Edit: Beaten by 22 seconds...

Just went through the FAQ, and this is what I found:

Q. For characteristic tests, is the best value in the unit always
used? (p10)

A. If the unit is required to take a characteristic test, the best
value in the unit is used. If every model in a unit is required
to take a characteristic test, then each model uses its own best
value instead.

Now, whether the best value be what the "adjusted" value is, or the base value, I'm not sure. But in light of what's been said earlier by others, I'm leaning towards using the base value for the tests.

I believe that unless stated otherwise, if the buff is not stated to only apply in certain scenarios, you use the buffed score (which is why I run a Light Slann).

It is ALWAYS tested on it's unmodified characteristic, no matter what unless the item in question clearly states in ink that it is the modified stat. this is in all gw rulebooks if you look hard enough.

keep in mind, a roll of 6 always will fail regardless of godly stats, and a 1 will always pass regardless of abysmal stats.

Skavenknight wrote:...and a 1 will always pass regardless of abysmal stats.

I believe your second point (quoted above) is untrue. It is possible to automatically fail characteristic tests. For example (from the FAQ):

Q: Does a unit that has a LD of ‘0’ or ‘-’ automatically fail
Leadership tests? (p10)
A: Yes.

Hm. Well. That would settle that, then.

Here's what I found:

p.89 Weapons Strength "...a Man wielding a Halberd would therefore strike Strength 4 blows when fighting in close combat"

p.10 Characteristic Tests "...roll a D6 and compare it to the score relevant in the characteristic in the model's profile..."
Now this seems odd, and I wanted to chalk it up to an unclear explanation. Which I did, when I saw this in the FaQ:

Q: Does a magic item or spell that gives a bonus to a characteristic, do so bonus for all rules purposes (e.g. the effect of spells,characteristic tests, etc)? (p4)
A: Yes, except for magic weapons or where the description of the item or spell specifically says otherwise.

...I think they tried to rewrite the question and forgot to delete their first attempt, but I think the answer's clear.

Which is good, since it wouldn't make a whole lot of since any other way (Wha? Oh, no. Flesh to Stone only makes it harder to hurt you with swords and fire. Not with diseases. Silly).

Skaven - incorrect. If a spell modifies your toughness to e.g. 7, you now test on T7 when asked to take a toughness test.

It does NOT stay "unmodified" stat. Unless you can provide a quote to back your assertion up?

And yes you can fail - if your stat is 0 or - you can never pass.