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Made in pl
Kelne





Warsaw, Poland

 Grey Templar wrote:
 BobbaFett wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.


Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

Info is "We are discontinuing these particular SKUS"
An people goes like: -"They totally killed my faction!!"

Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa going to receive new miniatures? Yes, they are.
Are the Tohaa going to be retired from the game? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa Miniatures going to be impossible to find? Not really.

I keep finding people who confuse Army Upgrade with Discontinuing SKUs with Not Receiving new miniatures with that army being Not tournament legal. Those are four different things and only two are happening here.



The reason it is a problem is because anybody who might have been considering starting Tohaa, either now or in the future, will likely now decide not to do so. Namely because 1/3 of the models are OOP.

If there isn't anybody new playing a faction then that faction will slowly wither and die off. Especially since there is no guarantee that CB will ever bring these discontinued factions back into production. And no, the company saying that they promise to bring them back at some point in the future is not a guarantee.

Heck, simply not giving a faction new releases is enough to cause it to somewhat die off. Look at the French. No new releases for forever meant the fanbase just dried up into nothing but a small pool of hardcore fans, not exactly the most inviting option for a new player. And then it was made worse by discontinuing the line.

Now this problem wouldn't occur if CB was doing the smart thing. The thing that they really should be doing if they actually genuinely had a SKU problem. Consolidating SKUs into more consumer/producer friendly packaging. IE: Discontinue models/sculpts A, B, and C, and then release a new package which combined those 3 model profiles into a single SKU. Its ok to discontinue a sculpt if you eventually come out with a replacement.

CB needs to have more multi-miniature boxes, preferably ones with interchangable arms and equipment allowing for multiple loadout options on a single miniature. The fact they are seemingly staunchly refusing to do this type of packaging proves that their excuses of SKU bloat are just that, excuses. That or they are grossly incompetent.

The real reason for this is CB refuses to actually grow as a company. They've become victims of their own success, but they really can't afford to stay the way they are. They need to either expand the company or they're going to dry up.


Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.
   
Made in us
Mimetic Bagh-Mari






Ramah task force looking very cool...
I already have a pretty big Hassassin force... but I could totally see myself picking up these guys... and using them to replace the Druze models I don't like...
Spoiler alert more SKU are discontinued... so find list and get them while they're hot
Pro tip: ignore the GW reps and Anti-Corvus camp we should have a pretty good week with #DaedalusFall
I for one am going to buy the book, Shasvastii when it comes out, a couple of Ramah models... holding off on Tohaa cause my plate is going to be full this year. I'm beginning to wonder if some of these discontinued models aren't part of a bigger plan to overhaul the look and Design of older models that are dated

Corvus fans let your money speak for you and support the company. Games Workshop and for that matter it's very vocal fanbase would like nothing more than to see Corvus Belli fail .



 

 

 

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/13 13:16:17


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]






Svalarheima, MA

CB has made a conscious decision not to grow beyond (x), and while yes, that is their decision to make, it will occasionally also lead to what appear to be...arbitrary and/or baffling 'business decisions'.

So yes, of course they can do what they want, but they'll also occasionally alienate members of their own base, and then - shockingly enough - they won't grow as much.

So, mission...accomplished, I guess?

Anyway, huzzah for Ramah Taskforce AND for finally getting to see exactly what is in it!

 

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Alkasyn wrote:


Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.


Do not be silly. The market is not shrinking, it is only getting bigger. There are more people and more money in this market now than there has been in a decade.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/13 15:12:10


 
   
Made in si
Skillful Swordmaster





That's a really nice colour scheme. Always felt yellow-orange works better than green.
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

Ramah are looking awesome. There's more new stuff than I was expecting.
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Tuareg





California

Monstruckers?

   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

 Barzam wrote:
Monstruckers?


New Mercenary unit. They're also in Spiral Corps. Don't know anything else yet.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I really dig the concept art here. Very cool looking. They are a little busy but not too busy. Perfect.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Alkasyn wrote:


Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.


Do we know that? I can't remember if Carlos shared growth numbers last gencon like he has the previous few. If he did then clearly it wouldn't be the case (as they're no way they'd share negative numbers) but I do think the 2017 gencon's report showed things starting to level out and Carlos saying this was expected tail of the N3 growth train. And slowing growth isn't a bad thing, just depends on the reasons why which we'll never really know.

As for Aristeia and the new game that's just diversification and a really smart move and not a sign of stagnation for the core game but protecting against the possible future of it doing so. It also expands their audience. I personally know more people that like GW because of their Specialist Game line and the setting then people that actually play 40k or AoS/WFB.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/13 18:03:56


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Monkeysloth wrote:
 Alkasyn wrote:


Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.


Do we know that? I can't remember if Carlos shared growth numbers last gencon like he has the previous few. If he did then clearly it wouldn't be the case (as they're no way they'd share negative numbers) but I do think the 2017 gencon's report showed things starting to level out and Carlos saying this was expected tail of the N3 growth train. And slowing growth isn't a bad thing, just depends on the reasons why which we'll never really know.

As for Aristeia and the new game that's just diversification and a really smart move and not a sign of stagnation for the core game but protecting against the possible future of it doing so. It also expands their audience. I personally know more people that like GW because of their Specialist Game line and the setting then people that actually play 40k or AoS/WFB.


PP is a good example of a company that stalled out and had nothing else to really fall back on (besides their RPG). That is why you see PP suddenly pushing Monsterpocalypse and their new Riot Quest so hard. They have tasted stagnation and do not wish to fall victim to it again. Same with GW, really, Fantasy stagnated and, to an extent, so did 40k. That is one of the main drivers behind the Smörgåsbord of new games GW and FW have been pushing lately. The best way to avoid faltering is to have a diverse portfolio. Even if your sub games are not as popular or as profitable as your main games, they could be the difference between a company folding and a company limping on during hard times.
   
Made in gb
Camouflaged Ariadna Scout





 Grey Templar wrote:
The reason it is a problem is because anybody who might have been considering starting Tohaa, either now or in the future, will likely now decide not to do so. Namely because 1/3 of the models are OOP.

If there isn't anybody new playing a faction then that faction will slowly wither and die off. Especially since there is no guarantee that CB will ever bring these discontinued factions back into production. And no, the company saying that they promise to bring them back at some point in the future is not a guarantee.

Heck, simply not giving a faction new releases is enough to cause it to somewhat die off. Look at the French. No new releases for forever meant the fanbase just dried up into nothing but a small pool of hardcore fans, not exactly the most inviting option for a new player. And then it was made worse by discontinuing the line.

Now this problem wouldn't occur if CB was doing the smart thing. The thing that they really should be doing if they actually genuinely had a SKU problem. Consolidating SKUs into more consumer/producer friendly packaging. IE: Discontinue models/sculpts A, B, and C, and then release a new package which combined those 3 model profiles into a single SKU. Its ok to discontinue a sculpt if you eventually come out with a replacement.

CB needs to have more multi-miniature boxes, preferably ones with interchangable arms and equipment allowing for multiple loadout options on a single miniature. The fact they are seemingly staunchly refusing to do this type of packaging proves that their excuses of SKU bloat are just that, excuses. That or they are grossly incompetent.

The real reason for this is CB refuses to actually grow as a company. They've become victims of their own success, but they really can't afford to stay the way they are. They need to either expand the company or they're going to dry up.


Hi there. I think you made really good points. Here are my 2 cents:

Look at the French... not exactly the most inviting option for a new player.
Estimated forum user, if a new player arrives at INFINITY today the least of his difficulties would be to find a nice army to jump in. I mean... How many armies does infinity offer nowadays? shall we count them? It's Twenty nine. 29 armies, my friend.

Consumer friendly packaging
Estimated forum user, I think you've made a really good point with this. Concentrating options, rules and profiles into single boxes that cover all the possible needs of the players. That would be super cool. No sarcasm here.
I think that for CB it would take like 5 years and a new edition (N4, N5 maybe...) to align all their assets into this formula that you have so generously typed here in five seconds. Five years reading forums posts of people saying things like this.

I would go even further and say Why CB cannot be GW?, wich is essentially what every forum user is writing everywhere. Why are they not using APC plastic? Why not multi piece sets? Why not Codex every three months? Why not Massive Battles? Why not heroic Scale? Why not D6? Why not Spess Marines?

At the end, the biggest problem for CB is that fact that GW exists. It totally eclipses them and they cannot compete. I think that they are not trying to compete against GW. They are trying to stay away from direct competition and do not replicate their business model. They keep doing their thing in their own spaniard erratic random self indulgent way and they keep surviving doing it since 2005. I think that many wargamers look at CB as the alternative to GW because they are still here, while other games keep dying. They are like the last man standing.

Somehow, it's the fanbase who demands CB to compete. To start a fight that they cannot win.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Honestly, if someone were to ask me about starting Tohaa today, I'd point them to the Spiral Corps box and be on their way. You have to be a pretty uniquely knowledgeable outsider to have a sincere preference between the two against the one that's got that newer, consumer friendlier packaging.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.


The new big ones? Both fo them?

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 .Mikes. wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.


The new big ones? Both fo them?

Yup!
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 BobbaFett wrote:


Look at the French... not exactly the most inviting option for a new player.
Estimated forum user, if a new player arrives at INFINITY today the least of his difficulties would be to find a nice army to jump in. I mean... How many armies does infinity offer nowadays? shall we count them? It's Twenty nine. 29 armies, my friend.


Sure, only if you falsely assume everybody just picks a faction at random. But perhaps someone really likes the fluff of Merverongia. They like the idea of technologically inferior frenchmen. I play TAK and USAriadna because I liked Spess MURICA! and SPESS RUSSIA! Its not unreasonable that you'd find people who want to play Spess Frenchies. And for them, other factions just wont do, they just wont do at all.



At the end, the biggest problem for CB is that fact that GW exists. It totally eclipses them and they cannot compete. I think that they are not trying to compete against GW. They are trying to stay away from direct competition and do not replicate their business model. They keep doing their thing in their own spaniard erratic random self indulgent way and they keep surviving doing it since 2005. I think that many wargamers look at CB as the alternative to GW because they are still here, while other games keep dying. They are like the last man standing.

Somehow, it's the fanbase who demands CB to compete. To start a fight that they cannot win.


Nobody is asking CB to become GW, good lord no. That would be terrible. We're just asking for them to make sensible business decisions and not give excuses that are obviously not really the issue. Stop saying SKU bloat is a problem because its so painfully false. A company with SKU bloat doesn't keep releasing useless models like TAG pilots, flavor of the month HVTs, the entire Bootleg line, models without additional equipment options, etc... And such a company certainly wouldn't be working on another miniature game for future release! This really is akin to someone saying they're struggling financially while at the same time constantly taking their friends out to dinner at expensive restaurants. Contradictory signals.

There are many flaws that GW has, but how they design their miniature boxes and package them is not one of them. Everybody who makes miniature games should copy GW in the sense that they should make their miniatures be multi-part kits with various equipment options. You don't have to make them in plastic, you don't have to have the level of customisability that GW lets you have. There is plenty of freedom to do your own thing, do things better than GW in areas where they fall short. You should do this especially if you are a small company that, allegedly, struggles with SKU counts.

And like it or not, if you are making a miniature game you are competing with GW. And PP, and Warlord, and Fantasy Flight, and any other table top wargame company. Everybody has their own spin on it, but you are all competing for the same customers.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Mimetic Bagh-Mari






@BobbaFett you get it 100% it's a game by crazy Spaniards for grown-ups! I think I just fell for you <3 ; p

The color scheme is pretty sweet to me it looks like a Army full of super soldiers little baby Tariq's.

Monstruckers if I was a betting man... I would guess that these are like fat wheeled motorcycle guys or something I can't see them actually putting "vehicles" on the table

I got a feeling next year's going to be a lot more quiet and they're going to be doing one of those years where they build stuff to fill in the gaps for all these armies 3rd offensive will be over... well at least the release of all the stuff will be over. And they can focus on filling in the holes that they couldn't get filled in this year that's just my guess and I still think they're going to put out a new 15 mm game so they don't "Cannibalize" Infinity or Aristea and that might be the big thing to do next year put out a new game get some support moving for it and then fill in the holes and infinity that need to be filled from the big big General releases they made this year
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Kanluwen wrote:
 .Mikes. wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.


The new big ones? Both fo them?

Yup!


A shame really. I mean, they had basically empty profiles, but the models were cool. They were a prime candidate for a complete rework of their profile.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







CB's acknowledged that they have a problem with too many SKUs, and they really haven't done anything about that other than bail water. They've been bailing the SKU water since 2nd edition.

If you wanted to be optimistic, and assumed that CB could release one SKU to cover each new profile announced this week, how many new SKUs would be required? If you take the SKUs that were announced as being discontinued "in a few months" and compare that to the Spiral Corps list, I think you come out even.

The big problem, I think, is that CB's in a no-win situation concerning the troop profiles that they don't think they can keep manufacturing:
* If they treat them like the Exrah that just alienates the players who purchased the models
* If they discontinue the SKUs and leave the sectorial as it is, that's the MRRF situation
* If they discontinue the SKUs and continue to add new models (the Tohaa situation) you get a new and completely different mess.

To be pessimistic, it seems unrealistic to expect improvements to take to place to the discontinued SKU profiles. Especially when the new models look like they're providing better replacements for what some of the discontinued models were trying to do.

And then, in "a few months" when the SKUs are discontinued...

The tournament rules have the same self-contradictory problem. First it says:
Each figure must represent faithfully the unit it stands for, including its equipment and weapon options.

then it throws that out the window:
Should the appropriate miniature not be available on the Infinity range, you can use a different Corvus Belli miniature as a stand-in, but you must inform your opponent unequivocally of what that figure represents.

and
Under no circumstances can miniatures from other brands or manufacturers be used as proxies. The use of other Corvus Belli miniatures is allowed; however, players must inform their adversary which trooper is being represented. The figure must use the same size base as the trooper being represented.


The "pending discontinued" list:
- Tohaa starter pack (basically redundant with the other discontinued)
- Sukeul Commandos. (AVA 4)
- Gorgos (AVA 1). Profile says "TAG".
- Kotail Mobile (AVA 4). Superjumping holoprojector dudes
- Nikoul Unit (AVA 2) (The foxhole artichokes)
- Gao Tarsos (AVA 3). Jump artichokes
- Sakiel Regiment (the other artichoke in the starter pack)
- Ectros Regiment (AVA 4). (The horned HI artichoke in the starter pack)
- Kamael Light Infantry (AVA total) (the LI in the starter pack, basically)
- Makaul (AVA 6) (The box of four that included the artichoke with the pole arm)

The other model in the starter pack is the Clipsos Infiltrator, and there's a resculpt of that in the new box.

I'm looking at the list of models in the 300 point Tohaa army pack. The Kaeltar Specialists are the only thing in the 300 point pack that's not "pending discontinued". I bring it up because it's quite feasible to be fielding an army list entirely composed of the "pending discontinued" models, or to end up wanting to give that army list a try in a few months when those models are going to be discontinued. The very honest, very complete Tohaa total proxy army. And what kind of tournament experience is that, for either player?

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

 Kanluwen wrote:
 .Mikes. wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.


The new big ones? Both fo them?

Yup!


Well....bugger. I'd just decided ot start hAqq, too. Looks like I'm picking up the HMG variant while I can depiste not having a place in a list for it. It's ASS all over again.

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in om
Dakka Veteran





Muscat, Oman

These concept shots look fantastic! I hope the final models look as good because I will definately snap them up if they do!

--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
Made in us
Mimetic Bagh-Mari






They are pretty badass man! I got a solid Hassassin Army...
Thinking about picking up thise Hortlak as a Druze replacement... I love the rules for Druze I just don't like their helmets...

@.Mikes. I run Shock Army and I picked up as much stuff as I could before they went out.

Just grab a couple models man before they get discoed..
Either infinity is worth it or it's not....

But Games Workshop hasn't seen a dime of my money in over 12 years and I have zero regrets about that....
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

 5deadly wrote:

@.Mikes. I run Shock Army and I picked up as much stuff as I could before they went out.


I didn't, but hey were always on my 'to do' list. But when the announcement came I went out the next day and I got all the ASA. So far I've only painted the Tikbalang and still have unopened ASA startedr set, Bagh Mari box, BM HMG, Akalis, Guarda, Kirpal Singh and Stepehn Rao on my desk.

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

Random thoughts:

This Namurr I guess was the numair to which Bostria referred to ~4.5 years ago, along with the Mukhtair. It's an interesting profile to unpack.

Get that Carmen Johns crap out of Muh Sectorial! get it out!

QK stays in Haqq. Good. The Azra'il going OOP puzzles me. I wonder if there will be new Hafza or a Djanbazan sniper anytime soon. We did just get the Oda spitfire. Like with the ASA, I have the minis I want from the surprisingly short discontinued list. (2 Azra'ils, 3 Hafzas, 5 Sekban and 2 Al Hawwas and 1 Djanbazan)

Hortlak Janissary, hunh?

Don't like the hoodie in the Mukhtair. Actually, don't like it's look at all. Not very "Haqq".

These 6-2 move profiles. Very, very interesting. Lots of mimetism and V:NWI.

No truly bad news for Haqq, and Ramah looks very promising.

 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





Sydney, Australia

 Red Harvest wrote:
Don't like the hoodie in the Mukhtair. Actually, don't like it's look at all. Not very "Haqq".


It's Red Hood, not a Haqq model. Despite having a model released this quarter directly named after Moon Knight, a random Haqq unit has the direct comic book port. Cool look, but it's not Haqq

DC:90S++G+++MB+IPvsf17#++D++A+++/mWD409R+++T(Ot)DM+

Arena Rex- Helleniki
Batman Miniatures Game- The Brave and the Bold, League of Shadows, Bane, Suicide Squad and the Rogues
Bushido- Kage Kaze Zoku
Blood Bowl- Skaven
DC Universe Miniatures Game- Justice League and Suicide Squad
Infinity-
Malifaux- Outcasts, Resurrectionists, Ten Thunders
Middle Earth- Grey Company, Dead of Dunharrow and Fiefdoms
The Other Side- King's Empire
40k- Ravenwing with a little bit of Assassins and Inquisition

My blog, talking about Batman Miniatures: https://arkhamconvicts.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Mimetic Bagh-Mari






 Red Harvest wrote:
Random thoughts:

This Namurr I guess was the numair to which Bostria referred to ~4.5 years ago, along with the Mukhtair. It's an interesting profile to unpack.

Get that Carmen Johns crap out of Muh Sectorial! get it out!

QK stays in Haqq. Good. The Azra'il going OOP puzzles me. I wonder if there will be new Hafza or a Djanbazan sniper anytime soon. We did just get the Oda spitfire. Like with the ASA, I have the minis I want from the surprisingly short discontinued list. (2 Azra'ils, 3 Hafzas, 5 Sekban and 2 Al Hawwas and 1 Djanbazan)

Hortlak Janissary, hunh?

Don't like the hoodie in the Mukhtair. Actually, don't like it's look at all. Not very "Haqq".

These 6-2 move profiles. Very, very interesting. Lots of mimetism and V:NWI.

No truly bad news for Haqq, and Ramah looks very promising.


The Mukhtar is a total toolbox unit lots of ranges it can fight in with each option. 3 specialist options and a MSV2. It's hard to hit, it can get close, template on every profile and NWI to boot... seems pretty solid.
The Namurr is pretty sick 18 to dodge w/ HDL2, Multi terrain so movement and rescue not a problem, Total Immunity is great, Climbing Plus on a 6-2 is sweet... but all of that with that E/Marat pretty intense vs. EM soft targets "Roll twice please"... up n down- n template=fried circuits... kinda like her
The Hortlak just looks cool like very cool... another CoC unit and it can shut down HI/Tags at range with the Blitzen... pretty cool
   
Made in om
Dakka Veteran





Muscat, Oman

 Red Harvest wrote:
The Azra'il going OOP puzzles me.
Me too. Were they not selling well or something? Could it be that the Al Fasid undermined them with their better stat line and equipment? Personally I love the models.

--Lord of the Sentinels Eternal-- 
   
Made in gb
Camouflaged Ariadna Scout





 Grey Templar wrote:

Nobody is asking CB to become GW, good lord no. That would be terrible. We're just asking for them to make sensible business decisions and not give excuses that are obviously not really the issue. Stop saying SKU bloat is a problem because its so painfully false. A company with SKU bloat doesn't keep releasing useless models like TAG pilots, flavor of the month HVTs, the entire Bootleg line, models without additional equipment options, etc... And such a company certainly wouldn't be working on another miniature game for future release! This really is akin to someone saying they're struggling financially while at the same time constantly taking their friends out to dinner at expensive restaurants. Contradictory signals.

There are many flaws that GW has, but how they design their miniature boxes and package them is not one of them. Everybody who makes miniature games should copy GW in the sense that they should make their miniatures be multi-part kits with various equipment options. You don't have to make them in plastic, you don't have to have the level of customisability that GW lets you have. There is plenty of freedom to do your own thing, do things better than GW in areas where they fall short. You should do this especially if you are a small company that, allegedly, struggles with SKU counts.

And like it or not, if you are making a miniature game you are competing with GW. And PP, and Warlord, and Fantasy Flight, and any other table top wargame company. Everybody has their own spin on it, but you are all competing for the same customers.


You are making really good points. I must say I do not totally disagree with you.
Now, let's be a bit more specific:

Stop saying SKU bloat is a problem because its so painfully false.
This is directly a passionate statement that seems away from facts. INFINITY has an SKU problem. The game is not popular enough to keep distributors and stores stocking a huge range of thousands of SKUs. CB might be able to handle 30 armies but game popularity here is another element. You can ask stores to have a wall of GW products because they are the market leader, but try to tell a guy with a store in Alabama to fill his north wall with these orange boxes of a silly Spanish not mainstream game that carries 30 armies and a gazillion blisters and the guy will spit on the ground and ask "why?". Infinity sales only became a thing when they did concentrate on boxes like Operation Icestorm, suddenly in 2014 they were the prettiest girl in the ballroom. Suddenly they had an actual product that was selling copies everywhere. They did that almost nine years after begining with their game. They are not business genious, that's a fact.

A company with SKU bloath doesn't keep releasing useless models like TAG pilots, flavor of the month HVTs, the entire Bootleg line,
All those things are like from 2013. Back in the day, these sculptors turned into businesmen were not even aware of the concept of SKU bloath. Damn! I think that they even didn't have barcodes in their boxes back then.

Everybody who makes miniature games should copy GW (Regarding multipart kits).
While I disagree about copying GW in many many many angles, the multi part kit seems like a fair strong point here. But, we must consider that the price of those boxes will increase, since CB essentially sells pieces, not sprues. Once again we must consider "popularity" here because a price increase on their product might make their range step away from that "100$ army" business model "Low model count game" label that they have been benefiting from so long ago.
Personally, I'm ok with this. I think that CB miniature spainted by Giraldez look so fine that people will pay the price anyway. Some haters will complain but the outcome might worth it. Who knows? maybe they are afraid to change this kind of formulas because they struggling with paying the next Lamborghini.

do things better than GW in areas where they fall short.
Like releasing actual female attractive sci fi miniatures since 2005. I truly think that was the CB mainstream appealing feature since the beginign.

if you are making a miniature game you are competing with GW. And PP, and Warlord, and Fantasy Flight, and any other table top wargame company.
Absolutely agree, but for some crazy reason these artists have been around for so long that I think they are doing something right. We all have seen companies die and games dissapear since 2005. CB is in a comfort zone where if they try to become mainstream they will be smashed.

Nice conversation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 10:38:59


 
   
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Greece

If I am allowed, just to clarify one or two things, most of the ideas presented here and quite a few not, have been suggested, examined and a few even tried. Fact is if they were considered, examined and not selected, there are researched reasons for it.

On the GW thing, nobody should really try to be GW, not even GW, GW has a really privileged and unique history that will never be repeated again by any company, the moves and decisions they make now are based on an entirely different scale and leverage that no company outside them has.

Companies should try to work out the best they can for their market share and their target audience, dependent on their manufacturing and distribution capabilities and not what other companies outside their league do.

But if one wants to take a good advice from GW, IP, IP, IP, don't sell "just" miniatures, don't sell "just" rules, sell a living breathing world that makes your consumers think about it when they are not playing.
   
 
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