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Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
I find having something I've earned/accomplished (damage from wounds) then taken away from me (DR) demoralising.


It's not an accomplishment until the saves are failed. That's literally how the game works. You are the only person I've seen floating around claiming that the existence of DR is somehow demoralising, because there is a chance that it takes away the results of your hard-earned rolling. If your argument was purely "DR takes up too much time", sure. I disagree, but sure. DR being demoralising, however, is just absurd, such a view being your perception or no.


I have had multiple opponents tell me the exact same thing, so it surely isn't a problem exclusive to Dudeface.


What, that it's demoralising? That when you successfully roll DR it makes them feel...bad? Do they feel bad when you pass armour saves as well? Invulnerable saves? When you deny a psychic power?

I mean, Dudeface is literally on record on the previous page saying that he'd be happy with a -1 to wound over 5+ FnP, which you say is statistically the same, because...

Dudeface wrote:
Definitely, it makes it a choice in my hands to make since I can reliably predict the output rather than there being another layer of RNG.


So what, it's just that people feel sad because somebody gets two saves and that looks worse to their eyes than an alternative which is statistically identical? Some real galaxy brain thinking going on here


Depends on the game. If its a friendly game I do feel terrible when I roll absolutely disgustingly, and save all of the saves.../ roll of the hits and wounds. Its just no fun when you crush the whole game in one turn of good rolling IMO.
When you egregiously break the averages in several key moments and youre both like "what.... ?... just happened.. Ok.. good game I guess? lol"

With rerolls being vastly curbed this is going to be much less of an occurance but still if you roll like an absolute mad man and pass those 10 5++ shots its be one of those moments

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Irbis wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/18/space-marines-gladiator-model-focus/

Gladiator Tank will be up for preorder on 28th which means that will probably also be the preorder date for Death Guard and Blood Angels
My guess is that is when we see the Assault Intercessors prerorder as well. Probably one other kit (we are waiting Eradicators, Heavy Intercessors, Stormspeeder, and Bladeguard), which is likely the Eradicators. I am guessing Heavy Intercessors, Stormspeeder, and Bladeguard come with the Dark Angels.

Why? Bladeguard would make more sense for BA being melee unit. Gladiator is also themed for them seeing resemblance to Baal. That would leave Eradicators/Heavy Intercessors for DA as 'deathwing' theme, along with speeder which is also fitting for DA given the number of unique variants they have...

.



Outrider bikes would fit most in with dark angels but that's what came out along side the space wolves and death watch supplements. well that and, IIRC the terrain piece, fortifications don't exactly scream "space wolves" or death watch to me eaither.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Irbis wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/18/space-marines-gladiator-model-focus/

Gladiator Tank will be up for preorder on 28th which means that will probably also be the preorder date for Death Guard and Blood Angels
My guess is that is when we see the Assault Intercessors prerorder as well. Probably one other kit (we are waiting Eradicators, Heavy Intercessors, Stormspeeder, and Bladeguard), which is likely the Eradicators. I am guessing Heavy Intercessors, Stormspeeder, and Bladeguard come with the Dark Angels.

Why? Bladeguard would make more sense for BA being melee unit. Gladiator is also themed for them seeing resemblance to Baal. That would leave Eradicators/Heavy Intercessors for DA as 'deathwing' theme, along with speeder which is also fitting for DA given the number of unique variants they have...



You do realize that Bladeguard are Deathwing while Eradicators/Heavy Intercessors aren't, right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 03:15:10


 
   
Made in us
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Sioux Falls, SD

 Irbis wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/18/space-marines-gladiator-model-focus/

Gladiator Tank will be up for preorder on 28th which means that will probably also be the preorder date for Death Guard and Blood Angels
My guess is that is when we see the Assault Intercessors prerorder as well. Probably one other kit (we are waiting Eradicators, Heavy Intercessors, Stormspeeder, and Bladeguard), which is likely the Eradicators. I am guessing Heavy Intercessors, Stormspeeder, and Bladeguard come with the Dark Angels.

Why? Bladeguard would make more sense for BA being melee unit. Gladiator is also themed for them seeing resemblance to Baal. That would leave Eradicators/Heavy Intercessors for DA as 'deathwing' theme, along with speeder which is also fitting for DA given the number of unique variants they have...

The LRBT is about where it should be since it's able to be squadroned and supposed to be fielded en masse rather than super survivable.

Uh, what? When AV was a thing, it was literally one of the only two widely available tanks with maximum AV of 14, outranking even majority of superheavies and some titans in durability from the front. Toughness is literally Russ' main point, always had been...
Bladeguard are Deathwing now, so they would be releasing a Deathwing unit (Bladeguard), Ravenwing unit (Stormspeeder), and Greenwing unit (Heavy Intercessors). I agree with your statement about the Gladiator though. Eradicators are not really on theme for BA though, I agree. BA do have a tendency to use more flamer and Melta weapons (still a stretch though).

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 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
I find having something I've earned/accomplished (damage from wounds) then taken away from me (DR) demoralising.


It's not an accomplishment until the saves are failed. That's literally how the game works. You are the only person I've seen floating around claiming that the existence of DR is somehow demoralising, because there is a chance that it takes away the results of your hard-earned rolling. If your argument was purely "DR takes up too much time", sure. I disagree, but sure. DR being demoralising, however, is just absurd, such a view being your perception or no.


I have had multiple opponents tell me the exact same thing, so it surely isn't a problem exclusive to Dudeface.


What, that it's demoralising? That when you successfully roll DR it makes them feel...bad? Do they feel bad when you pass armour saves as well? Invulnerable saves? When you deny a psychic power?

I mean, Dudeface is literally on record on the previous page saying that he'd be happy with a -1 to wound over 5+ FnP, which you say is statistically the same, because...

Dudeface wrote:
Definitely, it makes it a choice in my hands to make since I can reliably predict the output rather than there being another layer of RNG.


So what, it's just that people feel sad because somebody gets two saves and that looks worse to their eyes than an alternative which is statistically identical? Some real galaxy brain thinking going on here


Yes, if you can't understand the difference between getting past saves, etc rolling a healthy damage number up on your shots, then having that wiped out by an extra wall of saves and simply failing more wound rolls, I'm sorry you seem to take it personally.

Look, you're currently wading in judging me with a "git gud" attitude because you lack the ability to comprehend other people have subjective feelings on a topic or mechanic. Go be less condescending somewhere else.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 06:55:36


 
   
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Australia

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, if you can't understand the difference between getting past saves, etc rolling a healthy damage number up on your shots, then having that wiped out by an extra wall of saves and simply failing more wound rolls, I'm sorry you seem to take it personally.


Yes, you're quite right; of all the layers of rolling in 40k, it is DR that finally takes it too far. Smashing case. I'll do my best to be more mindful of DR victims in the future

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 12:14:40


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 Marshal Loss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Yes, if you can't understand the difference between getting past saves, etc rolling a healthy damage number up on your shots, then having that wiped out by an extra wall of saves and simply failing more wound rolls, I'm sorry you seem to take it personally.


Yes, you're quite right; of all the layers of rolling in 40k, it is DR that finally takes it too far. Smashing case. I'll do my best to be more mindful of DR victims in the future


Yes, thank you for incorrectly identifying that my argument was DR single handedly ruining 40k with it's extra round of rolls.

Let me phrase it dfferently:

Would you rather order a meal and be told when seated that you have reduced options and just get what you order, or order it, have it placed infront of you then have them take 33% away at random?

Did you stop to wonder why there weren't more mechanics that force people to reroll successful results? It's because the human psyche is adverse to having things taken away from them by default, it creates feel bad moments. I don't care if it equates mathematically to another option, any option where you accomplish something which is then reduced by outside agency will make you feel bad, reanimation protocol is the same and it's why it's a pain to implement correctly.

It's not just facts and figures, a crappy beat up car that's too noisy with squeaky brakes and smells funky might get you somewhere the exact same speed and efficiency as a new one, it doesn't mean it's just as pleasant to use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 12:36:37


 
   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Australia

Dudeface wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Yes, if you can't understand the difference between getting past saves, etc rolling a healthy damage number up on your shots, then having that wiped out by an extra wall of saves and simply failing more wound rolls, I'm sorry you seem to take it personally.


Yes, you're quite right; of all the layers of rolling in 40k, it is DR that finally takes it too far. Smashing case. I'll do my best to be more mindful of DR victims in the future


Yes, thank you for incorrectly identifying that my argument was DR single handedly ruining 40k with it's extra round of rolls.


Given that there's no argument to identify, I think I can be forgiven for missing the subtle layers of your DR-induced trauma

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 Marshal Loss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Yes, if you can't understand the difference between getting past saves, etc rolling a healthy damage number up on your shots, then having that wiped out by an extra wall of saves and simply failing more wound rolls, I'm sorry you seem to take it personally.


Yes, you're quite right; of all the layers of rolling in 40k, it is DR that finally takes it too far. Smashing case. I'll do my best to be more mindful of DR victims in the future


Yes, thank you for incorrectly identifying that my argument was DR single handedly ruining 40k with it's extra round of rolls.


Given that there's no argument to identify, I think I can be forgiven for missing the subtle layers of your DR-induced trauma


It's ok, I think we can safely identify you as a stats loving android who can't comprehend human emotional responses or differing opinions. Since you missed my edit:

Let me phrase it differently:

Would you rather order a meal and be told when seated that you have reduced options and just get what you order, or order it, have it placed in front of you then have them take 33% away at random?

Did you stop to wonder why there weren't more mechanics that force people to reroll successful results? It's because the human psyche is adverse to having things taken away from them by default, it creates feel bad moments. I don't care if it equates mathematically to another option, any option where you accomplish something which is then reduced by outside agency will make you feel bad, reanimation protocol is the same and it's why it's a pain to implement correctly.

It's not just facts and figures, a crappy beat up car that's too noisy with squeaky brakes and smells funky might get you somewhere the exact same speed and efficiency as a new one, it doesn't mean it's just as pleasant to use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 12:38:04


 
   
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Australia

DR doesn't force you to re-roll successful results. It's a built-in part of DG's durability and anybody with a modicum of awareness will know that c. 1/3 of the damage you deal will be saved. By that same logic armour & invul saves take away the accomplishment of a successful hit, a DTW save takes away the accomplishment of a successful spell, etc. If you go into two scenarios with identical results but feel better in the one because you don't see somebody roll DR, that's your problem.

This is getting a little sad. I do wish you all the best dealing with DR in the future should it not be changed though. My mother ship will be pleased with all the information I have gathered on how humans are affected when their dice-related achievements are so cruelly impacted by DR

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 12:54:49


Sons of Horus 29th Company
Emperor's Children
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Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




 Marshal Loss wrote:
DR doesn't force you to re-roll successful results. It's a built-in part of DG's durability and anybody with a modicum of awareness will know that c. 1/3 of the damage you deal will be saved. By that same logic armour & invul saves take away the accomplishment of a successful hit, a DTW save takes away the accomplishment of a successful spell, etc. If you go into two scenarios with identical results but feel better in the one because you don't see somebody roll DR, that's your problem.

This is getting a little sad. I do wish you all the best dealing with DR in the future should it not be changed though. My mother ship will be pleased with all the information I have gathered on how humans are affected when their dice-related achievements are so cruelly impacted by DR


I never said dr forced anyone to reroll successful rolls, it was an example.

Please, move on I will keep my opinions to myself and you can continue being good at stuff.
   
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Austria

the main difference is the feeling an extra roll adds to the game

specially if it makes no difference if it would be a modification

everyone is rolling 3 times but that one special codex is rolling 4 times and the other special codex is rolling 5 times
just feels worse than everyone is rolling 3 times but the special codex has an additional -1 on the first roll.

and it was the extra dice rolling that started the problems in 6th/7th

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 kodos wrote:
the main difference is the feeling an extra roll adds to the game

specially if it makes no difference if it would be a modification

everyone is rolling 3 times but that one special codex is rolling 4 times and the other special codex is rolling 5 times
just feels worse than everyone is rolling 3 times but the special codex has an additional -1 on the first roll.

and it was the extra dice rolling that started the problems in 6th/7th


There also is the issue when a gun like the new heavy bolter is shot at pox walkers - you need to roll two dice, one by one, for every single wound. Especially with plague marines going to 2 wounds, -1 to wound would be a very elegant solution to speed up the game.

Then again, DG usually have a lot less models than other armies, so time is rarely an issue.

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Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
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Frankly i don't think people would be averse to cut down the tedium via rolling it like an armor save to ignore all or no damage.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Love all this DG hate when they are sub 50% and the only thing they have is the ability to sit on an objective. The only build they even have that is competitive right now is Poxmongers that flexes more on its 4++ vs 5+++. No talk of Slanesh Daemons with some absurd 67% win rate. No you gotta go after the Plague Marines with there awesome bolsters at S4 0 1. Cause that’s meta defining there. Couldn’t be the Eradicators coming from deep strike, or a keeper of secrets that face rolls everything on the smaller board. Nope it’s the over costed first gen marines. Not the Deathwing Units with built in Transhuman, nor the Sanguinary guard that smash face, not the Thunderwolf Cav that is stomping you turn 1 with Thunderhammers and Powerfists hitting on 2s with Keen Senses. No it’s the Plague Marines with there 5” Movement and No ap weapons. But but they are monsters in combat. Nah they got 1 dude with a flail and the rest blow goats. 1 and 2 attacks each. Like some lazy guardsmen. DG needs a buff and some of you are acting like they are the worst thing in the game. Get plowed, I don’t complain when you roll out 4 boxes of dice for your gak Guards after first rank fire second rank fire. Who fething cares if DG get DR. They need it. It’s their flavor. You wanna give them bikes back, and access to forge world, you want to have Typhus in a speeder? That would be cool. Maybe make it so Mortarion was worth something more than my favorite paper weight. Give us access to the rest of Chaos. Not like that’s a boon as anything Chaos gets marines get better. How do you like your Storm Cannon now hucksters.
   
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Any game where you have to roll as many dice as you do in 40K is seems fundamentally and obviously flawed anyway. I don't play this game but I read something the other week in a WH community article where the writer stated (with some pride or excitement), that the unit they were describing rolls forty or fifty-odd dice when they're attacking another unit. Seems somewhat horrific to me - repeating this type of thing, several times per game, for multiple units. Who would want this? Seems pretty garbage QoL / Qof design mechanics to me.
   
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Halifax

What's interesting though is when you suggest playing without dice. The only thing people hate more than dice is no dice.

   
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JWBS wrote:
Any game where you have to roll as many dice as you do in 40K is seems fundamentally and obviously flawed anyway. I don't play this game but I read something the other week in a WH community article where the writer stated (with some pride or excitement), that the unit they were describing rolls forty or fifty-odd dice when they're attacking another unit. Seems somewhat horrific to me - repeating this type of thing, several times per game, for multiple units. Who would want this? Seems pretty garbage QoL / Qof design mechanics to me.


What you talkin’ ‘bout JWBS!

Rolling a bucket of dice is one of life’s little joys! Certainly more fun to me than charts and tables and that.

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JWBS wrote:
Any game where you have to roll as many dice as you do in 40K is seems fundamentally and obviously flawed anyway. I don't play this game but I read something the other week in a WH community article where the writer stated (with some pride or excitement), that the unit they were describing rolls forty or fifty-odd dice when they're attacking another unit. Seems somewhat horrific to me - repeating this type of thing, several times per game, for multiple units. Who would want this? Seems pretty garbage QoL / Qof design mechanics to me.


Orks. Half the fun is in the act of rolling massive fistfuls of dice, regardless of the result.
   
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Honestly, i feel that there should be a cap to the number of dice a unit can roll for an attack...and that should be around 24-30. It is insane to be rolling 40+ dice in a game that is supposed to be played in 2hrs. They finally stopped the aggressor nonsense (at least cut it in half), now it's time to do the same with others. I totally agree that it basically screams poor game design.
   
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Iceland

 bullyboy wrote:
Honestly, i feel that there should be a cap to the number of dice a unit can roll for an attack...and that should be around 24-30. It is insane to be rolling 40+ dice in a game that is supposed to be played in 2hrs. They finally stopped the aggressor nonsense (at least cut it in half), now it's time to do the same with others. I totally agree that it basically screams poor game design.


There has been an inflation in number of dice thrown in the GW games in the past few years. In 2019 I played a lot of FEC and it wasn't uncommon for me to take a 40 strong Crypt Ghoul squad and get around close to 200 rolls with rerolls 1s to hit and reroll to wound. I could literally see the very life force of my opponent waste away in real time as I rolled the dice. Then I used Feeding Frenzy and could do another pile-in and attack.

One of the reason I decided to take a break from the army was because I got tired of seeing my opponent's will to live disappear during a game.

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Nurglitch wrote:
What's interesting though is when you suggest playing without dice. The only thing people hate more than dice is no dice.


well said, take dice away (even when they're a pain) and all too many players complain or say they feel they're not involved any more

 
   
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Halifax

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
JWBS wrote:
Any game where you have to roll as many dice as you do in 40K is seems fundamentally and obviously flawed anyway. I don't play this game but I read something the other week in a WH community article where the writer stated (with some pride or excitement), that the unit they were describing rolls forty or fifty-odd dice when they're attacking another unit. Seems somewhat horrific to me - repeating this type of thing, several times per game, for multiple units. Who would want this? Seems pretty garbage QoL / Qof design mechanics to me.


Orks. Half the fun is in the act of rolling massive fistfuls of dice, regardless of the result.

I don't know, rolling huge fistfulls of dice for very little result is kind of disheartening to me.

   
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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
JWBS wrote:
Any game where you have to roll as many dice as you do in 40K is seems fundamentally and obviously flawed anyway. I don't play this game but I read something the other week in a WH community article where the writer stated (with some pride or excitement), that the unit they were describing rolls forty or fifty-odd dice when they're attacking another unit. Seems somewhat horrific to me - repeating this type of thing, several times per game, for multiple units. Who would want this? Seems pretty garbage QoL / Qof design mechanics to me.


Orks. Half the fun is in the act of rolling massive fistfuls of dice, regardless of the result.


Buckets of dice is fun when you roll them once, when your unit of boyz makes contact with the enemy and gets blasted afterwards. Rolling buckets of dice every turn, for every unit is not.

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I get that some units only have a fighting chance of getting an end result by throwing weight of dice, but it's still poor design. Perhaps an alternative would be an increase to the effect of a roll for each number of attacks above a set baseline.
So for example, say the baseline is 30 rolls (purely arbitrary number for the discussion), if your unit has an attack value of 31+ attacks, the roll is modified by +1. So instead of seeking a return through weight of dice, you manipulate the outcome artificially to achieve the same result. maybe even +2 if that roll is over 60. Therefore you are still only rolling 30 dice, but now say your BS5+ unit is hitting on 4s instead.
I'm sure someone could sit down and math out the average return of all these extra rolls and how it would compare to just adding +1 to the entire series of attacks/wounds.

I just figure there could be a more elegant way to do this rather than trying to pick up 60 dice and rolling them, or having to use a dice app (in which case I'd rather just play the whole damn game online)
   
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Austria

Bres0048 wrote:
Love all this DG hate when they are sub 50%

there is no DG hate, but hate for lazy rules writing and using the worst possible solution for an easy to solve problem

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 kodos wrote:
the main difference is the feeling an extra roll adds to the game

specially if it makes no difference if it would be a modification

everyone is rolling 3 times but that one special codex is rolling 4 times and the other special codex is rolling 5 times
just feels worse than everyone is rolling 3 times but the special codex has an additional -1 on the first roll.

and it was the extra dice rolling that started the problems in 6th/7th


Alas gw thinks stats are boring, special rules and dice rolling makes game "deep".

Dg being durable good but it could be archieved with less dice rolling


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bres0048 wrote:
Love all this DG hate when they are sub 50% and the only thing they have is the ability to sit on an objective. The only build they even have that is competitive right now is Poxmongers that flexes more on its 4++ vs 5+++. No talk of Slanesh Daemons with some absurd 67% win rate. No you gotta go after the Plague Marines with there awesome bolsters at S4 0 1. Cause that’s meta defining there. Couldn’t be the Eradicators coming from deep strike, or a keeper of secrets that face rolls everything on the smaller board. Nope it’s the over costed first gen marines. Not the Deathwing Units with built in Transhuman, nor the Sanguinary guard that smash face, not the Thunderwolf Cav that is stomping you turn 1 with Thunderhammers and Powerfists hitting on 2s with Keen Senses. No it’s the Plague Marines with there 5” Movement and No ap weapons. But but they are monsters in combat. Nah they got 1 dude with a flail and the rest blow goats. 1 and 2 attacks each. Like some lazy guardsmen. DG needs a buff and some of you are acting like they are the worst thing in the game. Get plowed, I don’t complain when you roll out 4 boxes of dice for your gak Guards after first rank fire second rank fire. Who fething cares if DG get DR. They need it. It’s their flavor. You wanna give them bikes back, and access to forge world, you want to have Typhus in a speeder? That would be cool. Maybe make it so Mortarion was worth something more than my favorite paper weight. Give us access to the rest of Chaos. Not like that’s a boon as anything Chaos gets marines get better. How do you like your Storm Cannon now hucksters.


You do realize right there's difference between wanting army nerfed and prefering same strength with less dice rolling aka faster game?

Tell me. What's so bad if dg was just as durable as now or even more but requires less dice rolling?

Do you WANT game take longer to play with most of time spent rolling dice?

Are you by any chance rolling every attack one by one just to slow dice rolling to crawl? Since you seem to want dice rolling eat as much time as possible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 16:54:04


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Iceland

You do realize right there's difference between wanting army nerfed and prefering same strength with less dice rolling aka faster game?


To be fair it's not Death Guard or their rules that are slowing down the game in most games as Death Guard units are expensive and you don't have that many units on the table. In regards to slower games there are quite a few armies that are much slower with more dice rolling and rerolls than Death Guard. I'd even argue that Space Marines are slower as they have access to a plethora of stratagems, rerolls(that have been reduced a little bit in the newest codex, but not by that much), and units with a lot of firepower(ton of dice).

I don't mind adjusting Death Guard to make them play smoother, but let us not kid ourselves that Death Guard are dragging the game down considering everything else that is going on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 17:25:37


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Dudeface wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
 Virules wrote:
If playing vs DG is demoralizing you, you need to work on your lists.


Got it in one


Isn't that applicable to everything in this game?

Including playing against marines and eradicator spam?


I'm not the one complaining about being "demoralised" here


No, you're just trying to act high and mighty over someone's mental perception of a game mechanic.

I find having something I've earned/accomplished (damage from wounds) then taken away from me (DR) demoralising.


And other people playing against you quite often see the """""""""""""""""""""""work"""""""""""""""" you do to get those wounds through the arduous process of hitting (with full rerolls)_wounding (rerolling 1s) and then getting past the armor save (with free bonus AP) to be comparable to that scene in Space Jam where the alien boss describes how he'll enslave Michael Jordan and force him to play hoops against alien children while tied to a ball and chain and they get a stepladder to the basket.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

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Bres0048 wrote:
Spoiler:
Love all this DG hate when they are sub 50% and the only thing they have is the ability to sit on an objective. The only build they even have that is competitive right now is Poxmongers that flexes more on its 4++ vs 5+++. No talk of Slanesh Daemons with some absurd 67% win rate. No you gotta go after the Plague Marines with there awesome bolsters at S4 0 1. Cause that’s meta defining there. Couldn’t be the Eradicators coming from deep strike, or a keeper of secrets that face rolls everything on the smaller board. Nope it’s the over costed first gen marines. Not the Deathwing Units with built in Transhuman, nor the Sanguinary guard that smash face, not the Thunderwolf Cav that is stomping you turn 1 with Thunderhammers and Powerfists hitting on 2s with Keen Senses. No it’s the Plague Marines with there 5” Movement and No ap weapons. But but they are monsters in combat. Nah they got 1 dude with a flail and the rest blow goats. 1 and 2 attacks each. Like some lazy guardsmen. DG needs a buff and some of you are acting like they are the worst thing in the game. Get plowed, I don’t complain when you roll out 4 boxes of dice for your gak Guards after first rank fire second rank fire. Who fething cares if DG get DR. They need it. It’s their flavor. You wanna give them bikes back, and access to forge world, you want to have Typhus in a speeder? That would be cool. Maybe make it so Mortarion was worth something more than my favorite paper weight. Give us access to the rest of Chaos. Not like that’s a boon as anything Chaos gets marines get better. How do you like your Storm Cannon now hucksters.


Please, sir (or madam) - for the love of the internet, break that much text into smaller paragraphs.

It makes for easier reading, and conveys that you breathed somewhere in there.

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