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One gaming store here in Atlanta is all but getting away from selling FoW, and another still has stock, but the boxes are covered in dust. I also found a few online stores who are getting out of FoW as well. I generally don't have issues finding a game, but it's popularity seems to be taking a hit...

I think the games OK, whether Battle Front survive by sticking its head in the sand and ignoring that people are selling top quality 15mm for half the price their charging is another matter.

Eh. That's in your area. Of the two local stores I go to, one sells FoW constantly (with every other weekend devoted to an Early War escalation league) and the other store wants to pick it up next.

I don't play Flames of War but at my local gaming shop it is very popular. In fact when I was there Saturday buying some paints they had a tournament going on. They also have a league here too. However, there are a lot historical war gamers in my area. Napoleonics was very popular at one point too. However FoW seems to have taken over as the most popular historical battle game.

If FOW goes down, the entire miniature gaming industry will be in trouble. The game will likely continue to survive due to the historial background.

The biggest UK distributor told me a few months back sales are nice and stable (that was before the big new d-day and early war releases). Local shops are stocking it fairly well. The only bad thing I've heard is that a lot of stock gets damaged in transit, and shops have to return a lot of it before it goes on sale, so that work level might be influencing some of the places that discontinue it. Certainly no shortage of good things coming out of the company though and battle for the bulge and the pacific war are both things I'm looking forward to considerably.

wildger wrote:If FOW goes down, the entire miniature gaming industry will be in trouble. The game will likely continue to survive due to the historial background.

I hope you mean this statement ironically? Or by Industry you mean Battlefront?

I doubt very seriously that if FoW suddenly goes belly that WWII Historical Minis are in danger!

Comintern wrote:I doubt very seriously that if FoW suddenly goes belly that WWII Historical Minis are in danger!

Other companies make WWII minis? How do they get around the packed of rabid IP lawyers?

FoW was hugely popular 2 years ago, but since then it's gradually decreased. Everyone is on a HUGE PP kick in ATL, so that could be one reason. One store around here said he coupln't get his stock to move so he carries a lot less than he used to. Another online store, Miniature Market, is getting out of FoW altogether...

I too am looking forward to Pacific campaigns... My grandad was part of the 4th IR that laid the foundations to Fort Richardson in Alaska, and fought on Attu island in the same state: the state I now currently reside. My dad uncovered a bunch of his old war documents, such as his discharge papers, an informational packet on the 4th IR (which included pictures of the unit while my grandad was in it), and other cool pictures from Alaska's infancy.

The battle of Attu would be extremely interesting to model, as I already have extensive knowledge of the Alaskan terrain


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robertsjf wrote:

Comintern wrote:I doubt very seriously that if FoW suddenly goes belly that WWII Historical Minis are in danger!

Other companies make WWII minis? How do they get around the packed of rabid IP lawyers?

Because Battlefront doesn't own the IP to real-life history? And they aren't the evil empire like GW?

I assume robertsjf comment was meant as sarcasm...

I think there's a lot of cyclical nature to wargaming. FoW might take a dip as people try new stuff, but then will come back. From what I've read, it's a stable enough ruleset with a pretty stable community.

Not to mention that there were many companies making 15mm Miniatures for WWII before Baattlefront and FoW popped onto the scene.

You can feel when a company is losing steam... and Battlefront is showing none of the signs.

Not yet, but when the sales start to drop, and they will, then we'll see.

Ive been gaming for 25 odd years and I dont know a single gamer who would spend £35 on a box of T34's when they can be had for £16.

If BF dont move into plastic quickly they are going to be in serious trouble, some say they've already missed the boat....

wildger wrote:If FOW goes down, the entire miniature gaming industry will be in trouble. .

LMAO!

What a pile of steaming horse droppings.

We did alright for the 40 years before they came on the scene... I imagine we will do alright if they fold.

I dont think they will fold for an instant. FOW seems popular enough (I dunno, I dont play it) and alot of its players (especially ex-GW) dont have a notion that stuff exists outside the 'Codex' products they produce.

Its the same with the Army Painter stuff. Buy your tufts from them for a huge price... or buy the same product from somewhere else for half the price. Same with GW stuff... But if you dont know an alternative is there, you dont get it... Especially if you have a store you can visit to buy the stuff there and then.

Historical gaming is alot bigger than Battlefront. There demise would mean little to historical players.

It's a great rules system and the designers have a great rapport with the players (unlike GW!). Having said that, the cost of battlefront is high and no doubt prevents many people from crossing over from other systems.

Big P wrote:

wildger wrote:If FOW goes down, the entire miniature gaming industry will be in trouble. .

LMAO!

What a pile of steaming horse droppings.

We did alright for the 40 years before they came on the scene... I imagine we will do alright if they fold.

I don't think they will fold for an instant. FOW seems popular enough (I dunno, I don't play it) and alot of its players (especially ex-GW) don't have a notion that stuff exists outside the 'Codex' products they produce.

Its the same with the Army Painter stuff. Buy your tufts from them for a huge price... or buy the same product from somewhere else for half the price. Same with GW stuff... But if you don't know an alternative is there, you don't get it... Especially if you have a store you can visit to buy the stuff there and then.

Historical gaming is alot bigger than Battlefront. There demise would mean little to historical players.

Agreed 100%

My club has 25 odd members and only two of us play FOW and we don't play it that often. 20mm WW2 is far more popular then FOW and the only reason lots of gamers (and I don't mean the current crop of people that have only ever played 40k that all of a sudden became "experts" on WW2) moved into it at all was because it was relatively cheap to start with. Well it ain't cheap anymore, I reckon a force in 20mm for rapid fire or similar wouldn't cost much more then a BF army.

We were here long before BF and we will still be here long afterwards........

I have to say Piers that I didnt comment on that post because the stupidity of it left me speechless

Aldramelech wrote:

I have to say Piers that I didnt comment on that post because the stupidity of it left me speechless

Im a civil servant... I hear stuff like that everyday.

I'd say 20mm is probably cheaper than Battlefront these days if you go the 'budget' end. Certainly Frontline vehicles are cheaper than 10mm in some cases!

It does require a bigger table though for Rapid Fire.

I was told the other day that 15mm and 20mm are dead 'scales' and 'everyone knows it'. The arrogant stupidity of the ill-informed knows no bounds sadly.

And even if Battlefront goes up. You can get the PDF of Flames of War rules easily enough that I think Flames of War would persist.

I dont know much about DBA but FoW strikes me along the same lines. Its a system that allows you to put WWII into competition style games. Not just your simple Historical game of what if.

Of course, Im not into competition play so I dont know if there was a system for WWII before FoW, but I have certainly started seeing and hearing about more WWII tournies since it was released. Battlefront's miniatures may take a hit, but I think they have a strong enough rules system to keep them in the game.

But yes, they need to start thinking about their pricing scheme. They dont have control of the market like GW does to dictate what their players will pay and buy.

Flames of War certaintly would stick around.

Battlefront could fold and the Game would survive because there are other companies making WW2 models of the same scale. the rules just wouldn't change unless Battlefront sells the IP for the rules set to another company.


My local scene saw a dramatic increase in FoW players last year while Warhammer and 40k saw a lull. our 40k grroup is basically 4-5 regulars while the FoW guys have about twice as many.



it's most likely that the in the area the OP is from that FoW isn't popular and the stores are dropping a product they can't sell.

Being a long term historicals player (nearly 30 years now) I can tell you that all the major periods go through cycles of popularity.

If FoW has been doing well for some years, it is probably time for it to decline in favour of ACW or Ancients or something. WW2 will come back, even if Battlefront aren't still around to make money out of it.

Your rules and models don't stop working if the publisher shuts down.

I don't think FoW is played at all in my FLGS.

I really don't know why. Maybe it stems from the lack of interest in historical games locally. Its too bad. There are probably lots of players who would like it. I would say there are plenty of people locally who play the game, or would at least like it. Which is why I really think they should support it.

Mike Noble wrote:I don't think FoW is played at all in my FLGS.

I really don't know why. Maybe it stems from the lack of interest in historical games locally. Its too bad. There are probably lots of players who would like it. I would say there are plenty of people locally who play the game, or would at least like it. Which is why I really think they should support it.

You could do what I'm doing, and start an Escalation league. Get some people to sign up and collect 600 pt armies in the time period (Early, Mid, Late) of your choice.

I've gotten a lot of interest, with a 4-5 people signing up for it.

yeah, the nice thing is that FoW is pretty cheap to start compared to warhammer.


the only issue with starting out at that low of points is that people that want to do Tank companies will have trouble fitting in. 1k is a better starting point.

Bought the starter kit and got a few games in and then it died around here. Shame as i enjoyed it being a buff

it seems to go through phases in my local area one minute everyone is playing it and the next you cannot find a game the new early war book did not make as much of a splash as i hoped it would but then i feel that was because nobody had much money this time of year as neary all factions would need to by almost entirly new forces wich would run into the hundreds of pounds

i am thinking of trying to run a tourny at my local club in the summer as this normally rejuvinates the interest

one thing you have to look at is WWII is not like 40, or a Games Workshop product.

A Tiger will still be a Tiger 10 years from now. Its hard to generate continual income for something where once you buy 6 - 8 tigers you will never really need to buy tigers again.

So for Battlerfront to be declining after a good 3 - 4 year run, its not very surprising. Their Rules will carry on, cause its a good streamlined and balanced system imho. Maybe not the most historically accurate but for those that want to play the period and compete it is good.

One thing you guys are forgetting is the fact that Battlefront can always expand into the Pacific Theater, Early, Mid, and Late.

They also just brought out early war, and we haven't seen anything from the Soviets yet.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Battlefront still has another 3-4 years. I honestly don't think they're declining at the moment.

and they could always expand into modern warfare. the real of "What ifs" and renactments.

Cold War gone Hot.

Think we saw them flirt with that and test there waters with their Vietnam line and rule's set a little. Not full on Cold War but I think it was a test to see how receptive people maybe to them expanding beyond the WWII era.