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 _SeeD_ wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
You can magnetize your guardians to equip guardian spears, adrasite spears, melta spears, sentinal blade/SS or the Sagittarum loadout depending on what situation you think you're going to face.

Can't magnatize Sagittarum. They're a different base size (smaller) than the rest. Otherwise good!

Are tournaments picky about stuff like that? Casual play (I hope) would be alright.
I'm looking at the forgeworld page and I'm a little baffled. Why the hell are the bases smaller? The custodian guard sprues that are supplied are EXACTLY the same as the GW ones.
Edit: Also, forgeworld sells the Sagittarum as an upgrade kit, expecting you to add it on to your guardians. Makes no sense.

I'd be surprised if that doesn't change soon (the bases they come with I mean). Doesn't make sense to be different from Custodian Guard.

Regarding different base sizes, GW says to use whatever bases the unit came on. Since the majority of the model is in fact Custodian Guard (and you just upgrade them with a sprue) its reasonable to call the normal sized base the one it came with. A while ago I read that the general/GW stance is that any base size is fine as long as its reasonable and not smaller than what they're normally on, so keeping them on Custodian Guard size bases should be ok either way (not sure where I read that tbh).

Additionally, no player you come across is likely to ever try and call you on it because who the hell would know aside from other Custodes players.

I honestly think that the base size for the sagittarium that is mentioned on the FW site is an honest mistake.
As far as I understand it the sagittarium come with the standard custodian guard kit plus the resin upgrade kit for the sagittarium and the standard custodian guard kit has 40mm bases

Or does someone have confirmation that they specifically come with extra 32mm bases.

Edit: also if you look at the stock pictures of the sagittarium on FWs site, they clearly all have 40mm bases, because if you were to build a custodes with a wide stance, his feet would probably touch the edges of a 32mm base, and they clearly don't if you look at the pictures.
Also they would have to specifically include 32mm bases if you just buy the upgrade kit, which I don't think they do.

I just ordered 3 sag kits. I'll let you know when they come in, but the pics shown are 40mm based and it's a resin upgrade that goes into the standard plastic kit. Anything on the FW page stating otherwise is very likely a typo. I'll check back in when my models arrive.

I'm guessing they really are on different bases. The bases that came with my Aquilon terminators are significantly larger than the ones I see on Allarus terminators for some weird reason.

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm guessing they really are on different bases. The bases that came with my Aquilon terminators are significantly larger than the ones I see on Allarus terminators for some weird reason.

Aquillons are also larger than allarus

Not really. A little bit wider at the shoulders but they're pretty much the same size. Now compare their base sizes.

 slave.entity wrote:
Not really. A little bit wider at the shoulders but they're pretty much the same size. Now compare their base sizes.

I put them next to each other. The aquillon are noticeably bigger

The aquilon have 50mm bases, I can confirm this. They are also a bit bigger and thicker than the allarus.

It does not automatically follow however that the sagittarium have 32 bases, since like we already discussed, they are an upgrade kit for the standard custodian guard, which have 40mm bases.

Another question for those who play wardens on a more regular basis: do you have good experiences getting them into combat with a coronus?

Tiberias wrote:

Spartacus wrote:I think it could just be a bit of an administrative nightmare within the game if abused, mostly for your opponents shooting. With Allarus its kind've curtailed by their relative cost, but if you could split up Custodian Guard squads it would just be unwieldy if your opponent had to constantly split shooting to be efficient.

So all those Iron Hands players would suddenly have to think how they focus all their shooting?! You're right we couldn't do that, how would they ever cope?

Do you fancy orks shooting their units 3 guy at a time times 10?-) then same for next unit

tneva82 wrote:

Tiberias wrote:

Spartacus wrote:I think it could just be a bit of an administrative nightmare within the game if abused, mostly for your opponents shooting. With Allarus its kind've curtailed by their relative cost, but if you could split up Custodian Guard squads it would just be unwieldy if your opponent had to constantly split shooting to be efficient.

So all those Iron Hands players would suddenly have to think how they focus all their shooting?! You're right we couldn't do that, how would they ever cope?

Do you fancy orks shooting their units 3 guy at a time times 10?-) then same for next unit

So what? Orks throw a ridiculous number of dice every turn anyway. You sound like that is some unthinkable scenario, but you can do this with your allarus already and if you change the stratagem to be usable on other infantry units, you would have to up the cost which means you could probably only split up 2 units max every game with how many cp custodes usually have. So this is not some game changing administrative nightmare you make it out to be.

It's different rolling 30 dice at once and 30 dices in 10 batches of 3. And then again. And then again.

The picker the pool you can roll the faster it goes. If they get split to 3 dice pools that's going to slow down obviously. And 8th ed is already the slowest edition only kept somewhat sane by the ridiculous kill rate.

tneva82 wrote:
It's different rolling 30 dice at once and 30 dices in 10 batches of 3. And then again. And then again.

The picker the pool you can roll the faster it goes. If they get split to 3 dice pools that's going to slow down obviously. And 8th ed is already the slowest edition only kept somewhat sane by the ridiculous kill rate.

I am not sure what your point is. That unleash the lions should be removed alltogether? Because again, if you break up a bigger unit of allarus, your horror scenario would also come to pass.

Tiberias wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
It's different rolling 30 dice at once and 30 dices in 10 batches of 3. And then again. And then again.

The picker the pool you can roll the faster it goes. If they get split to 3 dice pools that's going to slow down obviously. And 8th ed is already the slowest edition only kept somewhat sane by the ridiculous kill rate.

I am not sure what your point is. That unleash the lions should be removed alltogether? Because again, if you break up a bigger unit of allarus, your horror scenario would also come to pass.

As I alluded to in my original post on this topic, it doesn't really apply to Allarus because they are:

1. More points/wounds per model so less prone to overkill when shot at one by one,
2. Max squad size of 6, and Elites
3. Pretty inefficient in terms of offensive power relative to Wardens, Jetbikes, Custodian Guard etc, so they need the exclusive stratagems to maintain their niche

Look, its not going to totally bust the game wide open if this does somehow get changed to affect all infantry squads for some random reason, I don't know why you keep misrepresenting peoples posts and weirdly bringing balance vs OP stuff like IH into everything, it's not really related to balance at all. Hell, I'm a Custodes player, it'd be great to have another option to play with. I'm only explaining what I think is the reason behind that strat being Allarus only from GW's point of view, who have said that they want to try and focus 8th ed. rules into being as streamlined as possible. As tneva82 pointed out, there are potential shooting/assault scenarios where the drudgery of splitting heaps of attacks from a unit to target 10 micro units to avoid overkill, is not streamlined.

It's not going to happen anyway, not at least until another Custodes codex swings around. Normally I wouldn't have bothered to reply but to be honest your posts in this thread just seem full of needless spite and making big deals out of nothing. I'm sure I speak for many posters here when I say maybe just tone it down a little, this isn't the General Discussion section.

Not to mention, Unleash The Lions is the start of the movement phase, correct?

So the opponent pretty much always gets a chance to retort BEFORE the Lions get Unleashed. The only time they wouldn't would be if you get first turn, start your Allarus on the board, and Unleash them T1.

Spartacus wrote:

Tiberias wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
It's different rolling 30 dice at once and 30 dices in 10 batches of 3. And then again. And then again.

The picker the pool you can roll the faster it goes. If they get split to 3 dice pools that's going to slow down obviously. And 8th ed is already the slowest edition only kept somewhat sane by the ridiculous kill rate.

I am not sure what your point is. That unleash the lions should be removed alltogether? Because again, if you break up a bigger unit of allarus, your horror scenario would also come to pass.

As I alluded to in my original post on this topic, it doesn't really apply to Allarus because they are:

1. More points/wounds per model so less prone to overkill when shot at one by one,
2. Max squad size of 6, and Elites
3. Pretty inefficient in terms of offensive power relative to Wardens, Jetbikes, Custodian Guard etc, so they need the exclusive stratagems to maintain their niche

Look, its not going to totally bust the game wide open if this does somehow get changed to affect all infantry squads for some random reason, I don't know why you keep misrepresenting peoples posts and weirdly bringing balance vs OP stuff like IH into everything, it's not really related to balance at all. Hell, I'm a Custodes player, it'd be great to have another option to play with. I'm only explaining what I think is the reason behind that strat being Allarus only from GW's point of view, who have said that they want to try and focus 8th ed. rules into being as streamlined as possible. As tneva82 pointed out, there are potential shooting/assault scenarios where the drudgery of splitting heaps of attacks from a unit to target 10 micro units to avoid overkill, is not streamlined.

It's not going to happen anyway, not at least until another Custodes codex swings around. Normally I wouldn't have bothered to reply but to be honest your posts in this thread just seem full of needless spite and making big deals out of nothing. I'm sure I speak for many posters here when I say maybe just tone it down a little, this isn't the General Discussion section.

My posts are full of needless spite because I genuenly asked you what your point was, seriously? Regarding unleash the lions I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Does anyone have any experience with the Coronus Grav Carrier? I think because it's 14" move and fly, it can get its load wherever.

wandering back into the hobby, building out my custodes. trying to clear the dust off my gaming brain, please refresh my memory. i know wardens aren't the best, but if taking them, iirc you build them with spears instead of axes because the +1 to wound spear strat is better than the -1AP axe strat.

does that still hold, or have things changed? building them with spears also opens up just proxying them as guard for larger squads if that ever becomes a thing.

Axes are the better weapon for an army that has very little in the way of CP.

 gigasnail wrote:
wandering back into the hobby, building out my custodes. trying to clear the dust off my gaming brain, please refresh my memory. i know wardens aren't the best, but if taking them, iirc you build them with spears instead of axes because the +1 to wound spear strat is better than the -1AP axe strat.

does that still hold, or have things changed? building them with spears also opens up just proxying them as guard for larger squads if that ever becomes a thing.

Indeed it is still the same.
I wish the Piercing Strike strat applied to the melta spears too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone crunched the numbers to determine whether Superior Creation or Radiant Mantle prevents more damage? My gut says SC, but I could be wrong.

It's situational. Against armies with trash BS, (orks) then -1 to hit is great, and FNP isn't. Against Elite armies with high damage shooting and good BS, the FNP is better.

Also, I will always take axes over spears on Wardens. What are you going to attack with a Warden that a S6 weapon with Plus 1 to wound is better than a S8 weapon?

Tank T7/8: Spears wound on 4s. Axes wound on 4s.
Infantry: Spears will wound on 2/3s. Axes will wound on 2s.

What am I missing?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's situational. Against armies with trash BS, (orks) then -1 to hit is great, and FNP isn't. Against Elite armies with high damage shooting and good BS, the FNP is better.

Also, I will always take axes over spears on Wardens. What are you going to attack with a Warden that a S6 weapon with Plus 1 to wound is better than a S8 weapon?

Tank T7/8: Spears wound on 4s. Axes wound on 4s.
Infantry: Spears will wound on 2/3s. Axes will wound on 2s.

What am I missing?

T5 the spears can wound on 2s, T9 the spears wound on 4s (axes are 3 and 5 respectively). Considering those aren’t super common, I’d stick with axes.
The radiant mantle vs superior creation has been run much earlier in the thread, but I’ll summarize: SC reduces all incoming damage by 1/3 effectively, RM reduces by the same amount against WS/BS 4 and by half against WS/BS 5. However, that doesn’t take into account hit modifiers or re-rolls, even re-roll 1s would make RM worse against WS/BS 4 than SC. There are fringe cases where the magnifica banner+RM are quite good, but the character rule means that he’s probably not going to be targeted anyway. Finally, the things a shield captain is really worried about (especially a bike one) are WS/BS 2-3 and often packing re-rolls so SC is better.

On the rare occasion you're fighting T9, spears + strat are better than axes + strat, right?

 _SeeD_ wrote:
On the rare occasion you're fighting T9, spears + strat are better than axes + strat, right?

Nobody runs into T9, and if comes from buffers or Psyker powers that's a player putting all their eggs in one basket.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Axes just work better, period.

ok great, i was just mis-remembering then. thanks.

also, i just got the kits for my sag. guard. it's the standard custodian guard kit, with an upgrade package with the arms/heads. they do not come with any other bases than what is in the guard kit, which are 40mm.

 gigasnail wrote:
ok great, i was just mis-remembering then. thanks.

also, i just got the kits for my sag. guard. it's the standard custodian guard kit, with an upgrade package with the arms/heads. they do not come with any other bases than what is in the guard kit, which are 40mm.

Can confirm. I built 10 of my own a few weeks ago. Its the standard base that comes with a custodian guard.

Can someone confirm what base to use for a Caladus tank? I see the photos on the FW website show it with a really small one, but I don't think it needs one? I am making kitbash and I didn't know if it needed to be based.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can someone confirm what base to use for a Caladus tank? I see the photos on the FW website show it with a really small one, but I don't think it needs one? I am making kitbash and I didn't know if it needed to be based.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Legio-Custodes-Caladius-Grav-Tank-Annihilator-2017
You mean this? The 170x105mm oval base?

Actually I meant this:



But I should have seen there were two different models. Does that the gun decides the base?

The base it needs is the 170x105mm oval base as posted above. The model will not balance on the small base in the pic you’ve posted above, that small base is superglued to the large oval base. I’d guess that FW have just edited the photo.

 _SeeD_ wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with the Coronus Grav Carrier? I think because it's 14" move and fly, it can get its load wherever.

I’m curious about this as well. Seems like it could be good (and looks great).

Big though! I find fitting a land raider between terrain can be tricky... and this thing looks even bigger!