Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In a recent game I included a small 6 man squad of death company with jump packs. My opponent basically kept them occupied by landing a drop pod behind them and they were engaged with the pod for the better part of the game, rendering them useless to my cause. Reluctant to give my opponent a 200+ point advantage next time, I am equipping one of the marines with an inferus pistol. However, I also bought Lemartes and read over his rules. This is my question:

Lemartes is not considered an independent character, he has the special rule decent of angels, but doesnt have deep strike. I am assuming that if he becomes part of a squad then everyone recieves the benefit of decent of angels? If that is true do they also gain deep strike?

DoA only affects how Deep Strike is resolved, it doesn't grant the Deep Strike ability.

Either pony up the huge amount of points for Death Company jump packs, or have a plan B.

The unit can only DS if every model in the unit has that rule. Attaching a character doesn't confer it. In fact, if you attach a character without DS to a unit with DS, none of them get to DS.

Descent of Angels is conferred to every model in the BA codex who has a jump pack. They put it in the unit special rules for the units which have no option and always come with one. They put it in the wargear section under jump pack for the units which just have JPs as an option.

1) Lemartes is Jump Infantry. The Jump Infantry troop type inherently confers the deep strike capability (brb, unit types).

2) A Blood Angels model equipped with a jump pack becomes Jump Infantry and gains the Descent Of Angels rule (c:ba, wargear).


So, adding Lemartes to a Death Company gives the other models neither deep strike nor DoA (and he must move at the speed of the slowest model, so no 9" hops to the other end of the squad either). But, buying the squad jump packs grants them both rules, whether or not Lemartes is present.


...as an aside, what I don't understand is why everyone loves to agonize over jump pack death company, seemingly paralyzed by the twofold connundrum of needing to actually get there and needing to cost less than 999 points... but not once have I seen anyone suggest the drop pod. Take probably 2 with Bolters for rapidfire turn 1 and wound allocation diversity in the enemy shooting phase, accompany with a bare-bones Reclusiarch for obvious reasons and for a 4++ in the aforementioned shooting phase, force your opponent pour dice into FnP while you advance your squishier units, then start charging things turn 2. Sure, best laid plans and all, but that hardly seems questionable relative to buying a 350 point unit composed of 6 models a 200 point taxi with AV12, and that gets suggested.

I would suggest a power fist/thunder hammer instead of the infernus pistol. The pistol isn't really going to help you too much if you get stuck on a drop pod again.
Also, use a rhino to deliver them. you can't take lemartes then, but that gives you points for more DC in the rhino. But it depends on what else you are fielding so YMMV.

Lemartes is not considered an independent character, he has the special rule decent of angels, but doesnt have deep strike.

Lemartes doesn't have the deepstrike rule listed because he is type -- jump infantry. Jump infantry have deepstrike special rule by default (see BRB).

Others covered the rest. As long as the entire unit of death company have jump packs, they gain DoA and deepstrike.

I seem to be missing why they were occupied with the drop pod the whole game... Were you trying to use them to destroy it, or were they occupied with whatever was inside it?

Galador wrote:I seem to be missing why they were occupied with the drop pod the whole game... Were you trying to use them to destroy it, or were they occupied with whatever was inside it?

The death company has rage, so assuming the pod was the closest visible enemy model they would have to move toward the pod. Now, he didn't have to shoot or assault the pod but its unlikely the opponent would use the pod as bait for rage and then fail to keep his models out of assault range of the DC. Thus he likely went ahead and assaulted in the hopes of killing the pod with krak grenades and any fists he had.

Dok wrote:I would suggest a power fist/thunder hammer instead of the infernus pistol. The pistol isn't really going to help you too much if you get stuck on a drop pod again.
Also, use a rhino to deliver them. you can't take lemartes then, but that gives you points for more DC in the rhino. But it depends on what else you are fielding so YMMV.

I like the fist idea too; it solves the problem of getting stuck on a cheap vehicle better. The fist averages .39 kills of a pod per turn. The Infernus pistol .38 kills per turn, and you can only shoot on your own turn, whereas the fist keeps swinging on your opponent's.

power fist/thunder hammer helps against Immobile vehicles, however if you are chasing around a land raider you will need that infernus pistol, having at least 1 pistol doesn't cost much and you can still have the hammer/fist

Great responses from everyone, thank you.

Since ive already painted and assembled 6 DC with Jump packs, I am going to work them into the army in a crafty way. The first thing I want to do is add Lemartes to the squad. I am definately not expanding on the DC jump infantry though. I think I will keep my land speeders in reserve also for the possibility of having them land in the samw turn, see if that helps me.

jumai wrote:...as an aside, what I don't understand is why everyone loves to agonize over jump pack death company, seemingly paralyzed by the twofold connundrum of needing to actually get there and needing to cost less than 999 points... but not once have I seen anyone suggest the drop pod. Take probably 2 with Bolters for rapidfire turn 1 and wound allocation diversity in the enemy shooting phase, accompany with a bare-bones Reclusiarch for obvious reasons and for a 4++ in the aforementioned shooting phase, force your opponent pour dice into FnP while you advance your squishier units, then start charging things turn 2. Sure, best laid plans and all, but that hardly seems questionable relative to buying a 350 point unit composed of 6 models a 200 point taxi with AV12, and that gets suggested.

When I bought my first set of DC I had only been collecting/painting, but had never played. Seemingly, I was unaware what a hampering disadvantage it is to have them equipped with jump packs! My intention is to ultimately get a 10 man DC squad into a Land Raider Crusader. I dont like the idea of the rhino, even with lucifer engines, as they pop to easily and I might be in the same situation again. But, I have yet to play with a Landraider and find out the advantage and disadvantage of doing this. I play around 1500-2000 points so I dont want to flood my list with DC, I dont particularly like them, but felt at least a small squad of them to start with was neccessary in the spirit of the Blood Angels.

I think I will stick them back in my list next time and tinker around some more with their possiblities. After all, Ive only played a single game with them, but after such a disappointing performance from them, became jaded rather quickly.

Element206 wrote:

jumai wrote:...as an aside...

When I bought my first set of DC I had only been collecting/painting, but had never played. Seemingly, I was unaware what a hampering disadvantage it is to have them equipped with jump packs!

Oh I totally hear that. As long as they look awesome, other considerations are secondary. I didn't pick up the game side of the hobby at first either, and I still insist on fielding my Chaos Lord with daemon weapon because the conversion and paint job are the best I've ever done. Even if last time he whiffed against a unit of 5 Seraphim with no power weapon, failed a save, then failed another one from the fearless wound and died >.<

My intention is to ultimately get a 10 man DC squad into a Land Raider Crusader.

Why in a Land Raider Crusader?

Everyone knows Redeemers are better.

Besides, what's the point of a Crusader if you're not carrying Terminators, after all, who is going to have a 16 man unit of Space Marines ever.

grayspark wrote:Besides, what's the point of a Crusader if you're not carrying Terminators, after all, who is going to have a 16 man unit of Space Marines ever.

Blood Claws

I was laughing as they struggled to kill the drop pod. It was commical.

ToxicsLayer wrote:I was laughing as they struggled to kill the drop pod. It was commical.

Yeah, that pretty mush disqualified them from participating in any other battles . But im going to give them another shot this time, I think deep striking them will negate some of your DP fury! Also now that I have a serious threat with the addition of a Baal Pred and Vindi, they wont be such an obvious target to deal with. I also will bring at least a thunderhammer in the future, which add to an already expensive troops choice, but I want to explore their possibilities more. I really dislike your Salamander Drop Pods! Curse them!

And their storm bolters.

grayspark wrote:
Besides, what's the point of a Crusader if you're not carrying Terminators, after all, who is going to have a 16 man unit of Space Marines ever.

In addition to the Blood Claws answer above, Crusader Squads of BT. I regularly run 15+ DC in my Dreadspam lists.

Platuan4th wrote:In addition to the Blood Claws answer above, Crusader Squads of BT. I regularly run 15+ DC in my Dreadspam lists.

15 DC's with an LRC! That must be 600 points! It will be awhile before I invest anymore in my BA right now and if I do it will be for another Land speeder and a Furioso Dread. My first wave of them is pretty much done so I have plenty of time to decide what transport to take with them. This is what im trying to decide on:

option 1:
-10 DC + Chaplain + LRR -- Deep Strike them into combat -- forfeit assault same turn so the DC would be 6 bolters/4 close combat

option 2:
-10 DC + Chaplain + Priest + LRC -- elect to start on the board -- Fire all weapons every turn - slowly get them to where they need to be 7 DC with CC / 3 bolters

options 3:

-10 DC + Rhino -- use lucifer engines to get them exactly where I need them deployed, run the unfavorable possibility of having the rhino popped early, significant points cost reduction, 7 DC with CC / 3 Bolters

Any thoughts on which to go with?