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I played Tau during 3rd Ed. and a little bit in 4th ed, using the old Codex. I'm moving, and will be in an area to pick up the game again. As such I'd like to revamp my old Tau with a new list and new ideas (I used to run a Stealth Team heavy army list, and loved them). I'm looking for some rought advice on potential weakness' with the change to 5th ed.

Current plan:

HQ: Total: 311

Shas'O
- Plasma
- Missile Pod
- Multi Tracker
- HW Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones

2x Shas'vre
- 2x Plasma
- 2x Missile Pod
- 2x Multi Trackers
- 2x HW Targeting Array
- Bonded

Elites: Total: 336

3x Crisis
- 3x Plasma
- 3x Missile Pod
- 3x Multi Tracker
- Team Lead
- HW Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones

3x Stealth
- Team Lead
- Target Lock
- Marker Light
- HW Drone Controller + 1 Marker Drone

Troops: 340

3 squads of the same:

7x Firewarriors
- Shas'ui
- Bonded

1 x Devilfish
- Disruption Pod

Fast Attack: Total: 148

4x Pathfinders
- Shas'ui
- Target Lock

1x Devilfish
- Disruption Pod

Heavy Support: total 365

Hammerhead
- Railgun
- Smart Missile System
- Disruption Pod

2x Broadsides
- Team Leader
- Smart Missile System
- 2x Targeting Arrays
- HW Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones
- HW Target Lock

Which puts me at 1500 on the nose.

I've considered droping the Shas'o to a Shas'el, dumping the Shas'ui from all FireWarrior/Pathfinder teams, and going to Burst Cannons on the Hammerhead. This would net me back 80 points that I could pick up a Pirhana with Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, and 10 left over points. I had a lot of success with my Black Templar Land Speeder in 3rd/early 4th ed.

Alternatively, I could pick up another Crisis team. I don't want another Devilfish as I already need to buy the second and transporting a third would be a problem.

I'm sad to mill down my previous 2x squads of maxed out stealth teams, but the idea of some stealthy markerlights with the improved markerlight rules is to intriguing to pass up (and like I said, I love stealth suits). Am I correct that I can now move a Firewarrior squad around in the Pathfinder Devilfish? This gives me two fish to rush for objectives with. Right now I've got 6x Marker lights, with a total of 4 potentially different targets for them. However, do I really need to be able to light up 4 different targets?

The only non negotiables are I want a stealth team in some capacity, the Hammerhead, and weapon loadouts on the HW Crisis team. To move up to 2k, I will have 2x more Broadsides for another 2 man squad with same load out, and potentially 2 XV9 conversions (look good from demo rules, but need to pick up the actual rules in Apoc 2).

If you aren't using the third hardpoint on the 'O for a Positional Relay then its probably worth downgrading to an 'El with an Array, or even an 'El with a Relay. If you are taking Stealth teams its a worthwhile piece of wargear, and allows you to move a squad (or even two!) of Devilfish-mounted Fire Warriors onto the board on turn 5. If you take some Kroot, you can have multiple outflanking units, and go from an empty section of board to a strong presence. Stealth Marker teams generally have an Array on the team leader and 2 Drones. I would take something like:

HQ: 199
Shas'El, Plasma/MP/Relay, Multi, 1 x Gun Drone
Shas'Vre, Plasma/MP/Array, Multi, 1 x Gun Drone

El: 221
T.Leader, Plasma/MP/Array, Multi, 2 x Gun Drone
'Ui, Plasma/MP/Multi
'Ui, Plasma/MP/Multi

El (Stealth): 140
'Ui, Array
'Ui, 2 x Gun Drone
'Ui, 2 x Gun Drone

El (Stealth): 140
'Ui, Array
'Ui, 2 x Gun Drone
'Ui, 2 x Gun Drone

Tr: Kroot: 70
10 x Kroot

Tr: FW: 145
6 x Fw, Dfish w/Dpods

Tr: FW: 60
6 x Fire Warrior

Fa: Pathfinders: 181
8 x Pathfinder
D.fish, D.pods

Hs: Hammerhead: 165
H.head, Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi-Tracker, Dis Pod

Hs: Broadsides: 195
T.Ldr, Array, 2 x Shield Drone
'Ui, Array

1499 (I think!)

What do you think?

Guyrevel, I would never take gun drones on any xv8-s. Somewhat expensive for an extra wound.

Also, you have 3 railguns total, and 5 missile pods. If your opponent were to take any serious armor to the table, you wouldn't fare very well.

I would suggest getting rid of the kroot and the hammerhead, and then scraping off the gun drones from your xv8-s for 3 more broadsides. And possibly if you have any points left, you could upgrade your fish to warfish.

Guyrevell, just out of curiosity, have you actually had success with Stealth teams, or even stealth marker teams?

The Bringer wrote:Guyrevel, I would never take gun drones on any xv8-s. Somewhat expensive for an extra wound.

Also, you have 3 railguns total, and 5 missile pods. If your opponent were to take any serious armor to the table, you wouldn't fare very well.

I would suggest getting rid of the kroot and the hammerhead, and then scraping off the gun drones from your xv8-s for 3 more broadsides. And possibly if you have any points left, you could upgrade your fish to warfish.

Guyrevell, just out of curiosity, have you actually had success with Stealth teams, or even stealth marker teams?

I had a ton of success with stealth teams in 3rd ed, and into early 4th ed. However, I don't know if they are still as useful. 15 str 5 shots a turn could decimate even space marines and that many saves was bad even for terminators. That said, I don't know if they're still as useful in 5th ed.

What is a warfish?

The idea of dropping down to a Shas'el with Targeting Array isn't a bad idea. Also, dumping the two Shas'ui on the devilfish mounted firewarriors would also not be a horrible idea. That would net back 30 points, but what to do with it? Finagle a little more and add in a marker drone to the non fish mounted squad?

As to scrapping the Hammerhead, why? Has 5th really rendered them that bad of a choice? The sub munition alone makes them worth their weight in gold in previous editions.

The hammerhead is still a strong tank, but the only reason one should get it is because of the Submunission rounds, a S6 AP4 Large Blast is a good weapon.

Broadsides can just get railguns for cheaper (and can hit better because they are Twin-Linked).

At 1500 points, many armies will be fielding many, many tanks, and so what you have wouldn't suffice to take care of it all, and since broadsides are cheaper (2 Railguns for the same cost as a hammerhead with 1 railgun), I would suggest taking them instead.

I don't know how stealth suits fared in 3e/4e, but I know now that they aren't the best option. Generally, they work if you opponent is a newbie. They don't know the stealth rule, and so they fire a bunch of shots at the unit and find that they don't do anything. More experienced won't fall for it.

Also, stealth teams have a short range gun (18"), and so they require you to be close to the enemy to use. When you are close to the enemy, not only do you risk being assaulted, but the stealth field generator doesn't work at all/will be next to pointless. Not to mention, stealth suits are somewhat over-priced. 30 points is a little much to be paying for them, and they soak up valuable elites slots which I'd much rather use for XV8-s.

A Warfish is a Devilfish with:

Smart Missile System
Targeting Array
Multi-Tracker
Disruption Pods

A Warfish is good because for +40 points, you can make a devilfish a fairly good tank (Or at least a lot better than it was). 7 S5 AP5 Shots at BS4, and the multi-tracker enables you to fire all those while moving faster, and the disruption pods keep you alive longer.



Btw, on your point of them being devastating to marines/terminators:

5-man Stealth suit team - 150 pts.
1.67 Dead Marines
.83 Dead Terminators

3-man Crisis Team (With Plasma Rifles/TL Flamers) - 153 pts.
2.5 Dead Marines
2.5 Dead Terminators

or

6 Stealth Suits - 180 Pts.
2 Dead Marines
1 Dead Terminator

3 Crisis Suits (Plasma Rifles/Missile Pods/Multi-Tracker) - 185 Pts.
3.33 Dead Marines
2.91 Dead Terminators


So as you can see, for the same cost, Crisis Suits can do a whole lot more.

Going based on some advice here and other threads, a revamp for an initial list:

HQ: 127 Points
Shas'el - Plasma, Missile Pod, Targeting Array, HW Multi Tracker, HW Drone Controller + 2 Shield Drones

Elites: 422 Points
3x Crisis Suits - 3x Plasma, 3x Missile Pod, 3x Multi Tracker, Team Leader, Bonded, HW DC +2 Shield Drones
3x Crisis Suits - 3x Plasma, 3x Missile Pod, 3x Multi Tracker, Team Leader, Bonded (Shas'el will join them)

Troops: 245
6x Fire Warriors
6x Fire Warriors
Devil Fish - Smart Missile System, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pod, Targeting Array

Fast Attack: 133
4x Pathfinders
Devil Fish - Disruption Pod

Heavy Support: 360
Hammerhead - Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Multi Tracker
2x Broadsides - 2xAdvanced Stabilization System, Team Lead, HW DC + 2 Shield Drones, Bonded

Total: 1282
I feel this is a good, well round, fight most things base. 3 railguns + 7 MPs to bust tanks

Then one of three options I need advice on:

Option 1: Army total - 1497
1x Broadside (new squad) - Advanced Stabilization System, Team Lead, HW DC + 2 Shield Drones, Bonded
1x XV9 - Drone Controller + 2x Gun Drones (assuming download rules are the same as codex)

Option 2: Army total - 1497
3x Stealth - 3x Targeting Arrays, Team Lead, HW DC + 2x Gun Drones
1x Piranha - Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array

Option 3: Army total - 1500
2x XV9 - Drone Controller + 2 Gun Drones, Target Lock
1x Crisis - TL Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array

Option 4: Total: 1492
1x Broad Side - ASS, Team Lead, 2xShield Drones, Bonded
3x Stealth Suits

Making some changes due to suggestions. The only model I don't have/can't convert is the Piranha (the XV9s I have stuff to convert models).